More Seizures

[Nealh]

Yes understand fully if it goes faster than allowed at the time of a stop it’s illegal.
And if it has an off road switch to go faster it’s illegal by a switch I mean on and off .

Say for instance a Bird Bike Bafang motor so fully compliant and factory marked at 250W .

But as soon as you change the controller you can get what is in fact 500W so I am told ?

This is done and you are using this modified bike on the road set at all the legal requirements say with an unbranded controller and LCD screen that any one with basic knowledge can access the the advance settings and make the bike go faster than is legal. But to do this the bike first has to be switched off and the settings have no password protection.

So you have been pulled over for a check and your bike is road legal .

However the inspector of the bike then knows what he is doing access’s the advanced settings makes changes in the settings to access the full power of the motor declare’s the bike now not road legal and its seized.

Who do you think would win in a court if the seizure was subsequently challenged?

A change of controller amps does not change the legality of a 250w motor, a 250 motor marked as so is still a 250w motor.
It's rated power remains the same at 250w , one can try a 30/40a controller and if the battery allows it will deliver the extra input Watts though one will find in short time the clutch gears will strip and /or the windings may burn.

 

[Sparksandbangs]

It's self limiting anyway. The more current that you push through the motor the more likely it is to self destruct.

 

[Nealh]

It's self limiting anyway. The more current that you push through the motor the more likely it is to self destruct.

It is, a few years ago Cwah was a regular poster .
He always tried to pushed the limits with small geared hubs but found out they failed if over volted or over powered.
Take the Q100/Akm100 for instance, he pushed it to 48v/20a or more and found the motor failed in his holy grail to find the best type of motor to use with more power.

One can modify 250w motors to run successfully at higher inputs, 2000w has been done with internal cooling. But straight out of the drawer thye will fail in short term.

 

[Sparksandbangs]

We asked Bosch to give us their interpretation of these two ratings and they responded: "Rated continuous output describes the mechanical power that your drive unit can provide
continuously without the components overheating or being damaged. Under EU law, the mechanical rated continuous output is limited to 250W – this applies to all e-bikes and e-bike motors."

Bosch says that European standard DIN EN 15194:2017 defines the test procedure to measure continuous rated power and that, "this states that the continuous rated power shall not exceed 250W after reaching thermal equilibrium." In layman's terms, this appears to say that if your motor doesn't eventually start to overheat if it runs at more than 250W, then it is illegal.

If a manufacturer has certified it as that then the consumer has to accept that it has been done correctly.

Torque it up: What is the maximum peak power from a 250W e-bike motor?

Spoiler alert! Those watt and torque ratings for e-bike motors that are bandied about all over the place (and I am as guilty as the next e-bike journalist here) are not as simple as they seem. Whilst UK and EU law says 'the maximum continuous rated power output of the motor shall not exceed 250...

ebiketips.road.cc

.

 

[Nealh]

However the inspector of the bike then knows what he is doing access’s the advanced settings makes changes in the settings to access the full power of the motor declare’s the bike now not road legal and its seized.

One can't be nicked for what possibly can be done , the facts are the ones at the time of being stopped (if stopped).
If the settings are set for legal compliance then the bike is being ridden within that compliance as long as the motor is rated for 250w.

And if one is worried one uses a screen PW so no one can tamper with default settings.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I think you are mixing up power and speed. There are 2 requirements

1) the Motor is certified and marked as 250 w
2) the motor doesn't assist over 25 km/h

There is no regulation on how much power the controller supplies to the motor, just that it cuts out at 25 km/h

I see in real terms a motor that has a 250 w sticker regardless of it’s actual power ( who is supplying certifications for this ) and as long as it cuts out at 25km/h at the time of a stop or inspection is legal ? Regardless of who put the sticker on it ? ? Who is actually certifying this?

Or the bike can be made to not cut out at 25MPH by a quick adjustment to the speed settings is still legal on the highway because at the time of a road side stop /inspection it was set at the legal requirement . So can I legally self certify that I as the bike builder set the bike to road legal ?

Ie if one took a bike like this for a SVA would it pass ?

IE YOSE for instance now lock there 250W kits I would question why they are now doing this unless they could be held legally liable if any one can just make the bike go faster with a little adjustment in the settings as it hurts there sales realistically. As a lot of people want to cheat just a little

 

[saneagle]

I see in real terms a motor that has a 250 w sticker regardless of it’s actual power ( who is supplying certifications for this ) and as long as it cuts out at 25km/h at the time of a stop or inspection is legal ? Regardless of who put the sticker on it ? ? Who is actually certifying this?

Or the bike can be made to not cut out at 25MPH by a quick adjustment to the speed settings is still legal on the highway because at the time of a road side stop /inspection it was set at the legal requirement . So can I legally self certify that I as the bike builder set the bike to road legal ?

Ie if one took a bike like this for a SVA would it pass ?

IE YOSE for instance now lock there 250W kits I would question why they are now doing this unless they could be held legally liable if any one can just make the bike go faster with a little adjustment in the settings as it hurts there sales realistically. As a lot of people want to cheat just a little

It would be fraud to put a label that says 250w on your motor if you know it to be some other power. You can make your own label, then it's up to the police whether they want to investigate its validity. Obviously, if it looks fake and you have a dinner plate motor, they're going to ask some difficult questions, but if you have a normal sized motor and you weren't speeding past at 30 mph up a hill, they probably wouldn't bother.

Let's say, they're not happy with the label. The first question would be about where you got the motor from. Presumably, you'd be able to show them a listing, a confirmation email or something. If you said you bought the bike off Facebook like that, they might want to investigate further.

Regarding your other point about speed limit settings, I've never found an ebike that can't have it's speed adjusted in a few minutes if you have the right knowledge and/or equipment. That includes Bosch, Yamaha and all the bikes like that.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

It would be fraud to put a label that says 250w on your motor if you know it to be some other power. You can make your own label, then it's up to the police whether they want to investigate its validity. Obviously, if it looks fake and you have a dinner plate motor, they're going to ask some difficult questions, but if you have a normal sized motor and you weren't speeding past at 30 mph up a hill, they probably wouldn't bother.

Let's say, they're not happy with the label. The first question would be about where you got the motor from. Presumably, you'd be able to show them a listing, a confirmation email or something. If you said you bought the bike off Facebook like that, they might want to investigate further.

Regarding your other point about speed limit settings, I've never found an ebike that can't have it's speed adjusted in a few minutes if you have the right knowledge and/or equipment. That includes Bosch, Yamaha and all the bikes like that.

(Regarding your other point about speed limit settings, I've never found an e-bike that can't have its speed adjusted in a few minutes if you have the right knowledge and/or equipment. That includes Bosch, Yamaha and all the bikes like that.)

Yes that’s what I am getting at , at the time of an actual stop and check if the bike is set road legal then I would have thought based on the fact any bike can probably be de restricted. It how it is set at that specific time on the road not what can be achieved by some tinkering in settings .

 

[Tony1951]

IE YOSE for instance now lock there 250W kits I would question why they are now doing this unless they could be held legally liable if any one can just make the bike go faster with a little adjustment in the settings as it hurts there sales realistically. As a lot of people want to cheat just a little

I suspect they may be making sure their goods are not able to be seized by customs or trading standards when they come into the country.

The law and interpretation of it by law enforcement makes it clear that easy ways to defeat the speed limitation such as speed dongles and switches, or hidden switches are illegal.

Maybe Yose just want to make sure they can continue to trade in the UK without the risk at some time of having shipments seized and destroyed.

People may well want to have e-bikes which are faster. If so they need a moped license. It is not exactly onerous. If they do want a moped, they would if they had ANY sense at all buy a petrol moped or better still a Chinese 125cc bike. Modern four stroke clean burn engines literally sip the petrol. Even old fashioned carburettor models did massive numbers of miles to the gallon. EFI is much meaner still and they start much more easily. I have one of the new breed of Royal Enfield 350s. When I was running it in at about 30 - 45 miles an hour it was doing 120 to the gallon (carefully measured).



If people want a motorbike (ie faster than 15.5 mph, full throttle action) - just buy one for God's sake. They cost less by far than powerful e-bikes, and they last much much longer.

I bought that bike up above with 60 miles on it and about 8 months old for £3500 delivered.It has a three year warranty. Compare the value for money with that deal and any sort of powerful e-bike. It has 20 horse power which is about 15kw. The new price is about £4500.

Ebikes are for people who want to pedal, ride on cycle paths and have no bureaucracy. People flying about on unplated, uninsured, electric motorbikes are putting all of that in jeopardy for all of us.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

One can't be nicked for what possibly can be done , the facts are the ones at the time of being stopped (if stopped).
If the settings are set for legal compliance then the bike is being ridden within that compliance as long as the motor is rated for 250w.

And if one is worried one uses a screen PW so no one can tamper with default settings.

One of the reasons for these questions is my own bike A Raleigh Array 2025 frame with all the legal labels on the frame so I have changed the motor to one from a Pendleton Somerby the Bafang hub with all the factory labels still in place 250W .

With the 17amp KT and KT LCD if derestricted it can do around 7KM/ph more than is allowed on the flat .
Before there is no torque left in the pedal in top gear

I keep it Road legal with a PW more for the wife sakevas she likes to ride it too with the Torque the 48V battery gives.

So if I now put the throttle back on it set it to 15MPH then take it for a SVA at some point during the inspection I will have to input the PW as soon as we do this it gives access to settings were the speed can be changed .

I just think this may cause an issue as some one who has never taken a bike for an SVA

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I suspect they may be making sure their goods are not able to be seized by customs or trading standards when they come into the country.

The law and interpretation of it by law enforcement makes it clear that easy ways to defeat the speed limitation such as speed dongles and switches, or hidden switches are illegal.

Maybe Yose just want to make sure they can continue to trade in the Uk without the risk at some time of having shipments seized and destroyed.

People may well want to have e-bikes which are faster. If so they need a moped license. It is not exactly onerous. If they do want a moped, they would if they had ANY sense at all buy a petrol moped or better still a Chinese 125cc bike. Modern four stroke clean burn engines literally sip the petrol. Even old fashioned carburettor models did massive numbers of miles to the gallon. EFI is much meaner still and they start much more easily. I have one of the new breed of Royal Enfield 350s. When I was running it in at about 30 - 45 miles an hour it was doing 120 to the gallon (carefully measured)

View attachment 64409

If people want a motorbike (ie faster than 15.5 mph, full throttle action) - just buy one for God;s sake. They cost less by far than powerful e-bikes, and they last much much longer.

Ebikes are for people who want to pedal, ride on cycle paths and have no bureaucracy. People flying about on unplated, uninsured, electric motorbikes are putting all of that in jeopardy for all of us.

I wanted one of these when I was 14 , sadly never got one

 

[lenny]

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/crime/police-seize-24-illegal-off-road-bikes-e-bikes-and-e-scooters-in-burnley-in-one-day-5328797

Child caught riding bike that could reach speeds of 50mph in police crackdown

Dozens of illegal off-road bikes, e-bikes and e-scooters seized in police crack down in Burnley

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk

 

[lenny]

Officers out in Chester city centre for latest Operation Lawmaker deployment

Anti-social bike riders have been targeted in Chester by officers from the Roads and Crime Unit working as part of Operation Lawmaker.

www.dee1063.com

 

[lenny]

SEIZED ELECTRIC " MODIFIED" BIKE

SEIZED ELECTRIC " MODIFIED" BIKE Good afternoon, Welcome to all our new users to Derbyshire Alert. There has been several reports over the last few days, whereby anti-social riding of illegal E-Bikes, mainly around Swadlincote area of Newhall,... Read More »

www.roslistonparishcouncil.gov.uk

 

[Sparksandbangs]

I've noticed that they all seem to have low saddles. With that UPP style battery you'd want it as high as possible.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I wanted one of these when I was 14 , sadly never got one

I suppose it depends on the definition of easy .
Easy to who ?
Or a simple on and off switch is easy so illegal .

But if we say having to go into settings and change the operating dynamics then easy depends on the person doing it .

If this is the case then I would it could be argued that most kits are illegal or any kit that can be modified by the end user is illegal if the speed can be changed .

So at the point where a screwdriver or ALLEN key could be used does this level of difficulty make it ok and legal ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Officers out in Chester city centre for latest Operation Lawmaker deployment

Anti-social bike riders have been targeted in Chester by officers from the Roads and Crime Unit working as part of Operation Lawmaker.

www.dee1063.com

Would you seriously want to be using this on the Highway unless you have a death wish

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Officers out in Chester city centre for latest Operation Lawmaker deployment

Anti-social bike riders have been targeted in Chester by officers from the Roads and Crime Unit working as part of Operation Lawmaker.

www.dee1063.com

I wonder why the Carrera Vengeance is on the truck from the photo I can see no modification that would make it illegal to ride ie no throttle cable

 

[flecc]

So at the point where a screwdriver or ALLEN key could be used does this level of difficulty make it ok and legal ?

Yes, because it is no longer just a switch, it becomes a modification to the supplied specification performed by a technically skilled person. So it's legal if this is not performed.
.

 

[AndyBike]

Yes - two weeks running - at pretty much the same time, I saw such a character riding the same pedestrian only road in Newcastle. He spends about a third of the time with the front wheel reared up off the road - usually when he passes pedestrians.

This is it.

View attachment 64401

I think he is likely a drug dealer. People like this don't live around here. The houses cost a million quid.

I would report it, but it would be pointless to do so.

Hopefully, during one of his rearing up manoeuvres, he will lose control and smash his brains out on a tree.

Like others of this sort that I have seen, the uniform is all black with a face mask and hoodie. An obvious criminal outlaw - brazenly advertising what he is.

Bloody hell Tony, calm down