£1 fool price

[flecc]

I'd rather see drastically higher fuel prices combined with permanent fuel rationing, to keep the exchequer cash flow the same or a little higher with a large reduction in fuel usage. Then this followed by gradual annual reductions in the fuel rations and increases in prices.

At the same time I'd want to see big reductions of all taxation on truly green transport alternatives like battery electric vehicles and human powered vehicles. This should include removal on any import restrictions and charges and a phasing out of VAT on these. The London encouragements like free charging points, free parking and freedom from road charges should become national policy instead of local.

Eventually I'd want a ban on anything other than green transport in city centres.

These would get the show on the road and set a working example as proof to the rest of the world that it can be done, given the will.
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[allotmenteer]

I'd rather see drastically higher fuel prices combined with permanent fuel rationing, to keep the exchequer cash flow the same or a little higher with a large reduction in fuel usage. Then this followed by gradual annual reductions in the fuel rations and increases in prices.

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I agree with flecc. Petrol is obviously still far too cheap as people would rather jump in their car and drive 1/2 mile rather than walk / cycle. The cars they drive do about 30mpg and yet all we hear is moaning about the £1 litre.

If more people cycled or walked quite apart from the environmental benefit, the streets would become safer for all. People would meet and interact with their neighbours and the local community would be enriched. People complain about the loss of community spirit / anti-social behaviour etc but can't seem to see that it's the overuse of the car at the root of much of it.

We need higher taxes on petrol, higher road tax on fuel-inefficient vehicles, VAT to be removed on all energy saving devices, tax breaks to purchase electric bikes (bit of bias here ).

Oh, and a lowering of speed limits to 20mph in all urban areas, along with priority at traffic lights for pedestrians and cyclists and buses. That'll reduce journey times for cycling / walking and increase times for driving which will encourage many more people to make the switch.

 

[coops]

Good point about vehicle/car overuse being highly anti-social Paul I totally agree.

Oh, and a lowering of speed limits to 20mph in all urban areas, along with priority at traffic lights for pedestrians and cyclists and buses.

Average speed in urban areas: its no wonder drivers are frustrated: official figures say that despite more than half of drivers exceed 30mph limits, in urban areas (outside London) average speeds over ALL roads (excluding only motorways) is around 17mph peak and little over 20mph off-peak. If speed limits were kept to it would be rather less than that, and quite easy to get around just as fast & much more easily & sociably by ebike.

Congestion just means too many cars/vehicles and they say building more/bigger roads just leads to more motor vehicles, so something else needs to be done to deter their overuse. The measures flecc outlines, and the (hopefully) resultant social & environmental improvements would be a good start .

Anyone see that "pioneer" project for "smart" transport planned for Daventry (I think it was) in the news? - I forget what the little "driverless" pods were called, but they were supposed to travel at up to 30mph and be given priority over road traffic so they wouldn't have to stop (looked a bit dangerous). Shame they can't do that for pedestrias & bikes anyway right now: now that would deter unnecessary motor vehicle use, but cause pandemonium on the roads too!!

Stuart.

 

[jac]

the bike retail industry should be lobbying the goverment to take all taxes of bikes electric or otherwise as it is eviromentaly frendly transport

jim

 

[electric.mike]

coops

Average speed in urban areas: its no wonder drivers are frustrated: official figures say that despite more than half of drivers exceed 30mph limits, in urban areas (outside London) average speeds over ALL roads (excluding only motorways) is around 17mph peak and little over 20mph off-peak. If speed limits were kept to it would be rather less than that, and quite easy to get around just as fast & much more easily & sociably by ebike.

for reasons of economy and reducing my carbon footprint i recently purchased a new car (i can back this statement up with facts) up to now i have covered 1800 miles and averaged 49.8mpg driving in town, country roads, and motorway at a maximum speed of 60mph.The interesting thing is according to my onboard computer i have only averaged 22 mph



flecc

I'd rather see drastically higher fuel prices combined with permanent fuel rationing, to keep the exchequer cash flow the same or a little higher with a large reduction in fuel usage. Then this followed by gradual annual reductions in the fuel rations and increases in prices.

couldn't agree more i would still use my poor mpg camper but as i have since buying the car only for journeys that require it.

my ebike for local trips upto 15-20miles

car for 30 mile plus`work trips (no public transport at all available)

camper for holidays

so i guess i all ready apply a voluntary rationing to my use, due to fuel pricing

mike

 

[allotmenteer]

coops
for reasons of economy and reducing my carbon footprint i recently purchased a new car (i can back this statement up with facts) up to now i have covered 1800 miles and averaged 49.8mpg driving in town, country roads, and motorway at a maximum speed of 60mph.The interesting thing is according to my onboard computer i have only averaged 22 mph
mike

I bought a new C1 recently for much the same reasons. I've done around 2500 miles and I'm doing 58.7mpg average. Best full tank is 62mpg, worst is 56.5mpg. I average 40mph to work and 34mph coming back.

When I finally get my 36V battery for my bike I expect to average 20 mph and do about 1000mpg equivalent!

 

[fishingpaul]

i like to ride my bike as much as poss, but i choose to drive my car when wet or very cold. petrol tax is just a rip off, it is easy to hit motorists for extra tax, why not pick on designer clothes or other unnecessary expensive items ,brought by people with more money than sense. if raising tax on vehicles, it should only apply to larger engined cars with a reduction for smaller engined cars.

 

[flecc]

The purpose behind what I posted fishingpaul is not just environmental, it's conserving diminishing oil supplies which are non renewable. Burning the stuff in cars and boilers are the least important ways of using it.

Nearly all our chemicals, drugs, medicines and important plastics are derived from oil, and there'll come the time when people will look back in disbelief at the cavalier way we burnt the resource that they will be so short of for more essential and often recyclable purposes.

If nothing else works to stop the irresponsible and frequently totally unnecessary use of cars, taxes will have to be raised continuously until it does the trick, or stringent rationing introduced. I think a combination of those is best.

I do the same as you, using my car as a tin umbrella, but the majority don't, frequently using them for minute distances in good weather, and generally almost living in them. Stopping them doing that I don't see as a rip off, even though it costs me more for my minimal use, since I believe in the primacy of the greater good.
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[tourtorqe]

hi i live in sunderland sorry and the local bus company has just put bus fares up to 2 pound 80 pence each way?? the local hospital has no storage for cycles i have a mate who has to carry his bike up 5 sets of stairs and hide it in a broom cupboard? the goverment sucks

 

[flecc]

Hi Tourtorque

I'm no defender of national government, but it's not wholly down to them.

In London we are under the same government, but our situation is radically different,thanks to an enlightened local authority and Mayor.

Our basic bus fare is £2, but by using a prepay Oyster card, that's cut to 90 pence, so naturally nearly everyone does that. What's more, people on income support pay only half that, 45 pence. The oyster cards work on the tube as well, and are now being introduced on local main line trains.

Lots of people travel free, that's everyone over 60, all children up to 16 years old, and soon it will be 16 to 18 year olds in full time education as well.

On cycling, as much as £24 million has been spent on cycling facilities in a year, there are loads of cycle parking facilities, and around many areas, all the bike stands have roofs over them. There's a complete set of cycling maps showing all the cycle routes throughout the whole of London and these are free from public libraries and many other places. There's also huge advertising campaigns including full page newspaper ads to get drivers to take care with cyclists. As a result cycling has grown by 87% in five years.

And all this and more done under the same government. So the answer is to hit the right target. Get together, go down to your town hall and start kicking backsides, and don't stop kicking until they do something to improve your situation. Demand to have a controlling mayor, demand that the council play a full part in local transport, and where they need more powers, push them to kick up a big fuss with national government until they get them.

Be ruthless and make their life hell.
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[JohnInStockie]

I couldnt agree with all the sentiments more...

I sometimes wonder if I am in the same country as you Flecc. Here I find only token gestures are ever made to cycling, which are only regarded as summer past-time pursuits. Here, if you want to take the kids to the park, you should be ok. But if you want to commute, you are treated like second or third class citizens (or rather subjects):-

1. by the authorities in their lack of facilities
2. by the planners that consistently re-design roads without cycle lanes
3. by the car drivers that give absolutely no thought to cyclists (but then the roads arent designed to take bikes)

I honestly despair.

John

 

[JohnInStockie]

One thing that would work, make ALL public transport free, and pay for it by taxing fuel at £2 a litre.

John

 

[flecc]

One thing that would work, make ALL public transport free, and pay for it by taxing fuel at £2 a litre.

John

Totally agree John, and I've long been an advocate of something on those lines.

As for your area and others, you have to make yourselves a nuisance and get the privatisation of public transport changed, by putting the companies under the local authority as we've done in London. Here we have TfL (Transport for London) who have officials running it appointed by the Mayor and approved by the GLA (Greater London Authority).

TfL controls buses, tube, trams, and has influence on local main lines. In addition, they run London's cycling facilities and are dedicated to putting cycling and public transport ahead of all other road interests. The Mayor is strongly pro cycling and squeezes every possible penny from the budget to provide for cyclists.

That's why he sponsored the start of the Tour de France and the Tour of Britain both in London this year. A few weeks ago a large area of Central London was barred to traffic for a Sunday so that cyclists could turn out and enjoy themselves cycling to all the major landmarks in complete freedom. 40,000 cyclists turned out for that and had a great day, in particular the small children and recumbent riders were able to enjoy the streets in complete safety for once.

This weekend I drove up to see a friend in inner London, and passed swarms of bikes everywhere, rows of them parked on bike stands and against railings, many more being ridden. Less than ten years ago none of this existed, so it shows how fast change can be achieved. Even my friend who hadn't cycled since a child now has a bike and rides everywhere in South London on it.

Cycling is also a government priority, so the only obstruction is the local authorities elsewhere, and they have to be made to change. As we found in London, the government will back any authority adopting these policies.
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[Ian]

The vast majority of motor fuel used in this country is consumed by business users and paid for for by their employers. While it's true that modern tele/video conference facilities render many of these journeys unnecessary the world prefers to do business face to face (didn't you go to China recently Scott ) and the quickest, and therefore cheapest (given the values placed on time) way of visiting business associates is usually the car, and this would still be the case if fuel was £10 per litre. When one considers that to most businessmen the only thing that compares in comfort terms to their luxury car is first class train travel, and in this area that costs about £10 per mile, it's easy to see that even at £10 a litre fuel would still be cheap.

High fuel prices may discourage some casual use but I fear the overall effect will be insignificant. Lets face it most motorists could cut their costs by at least 20% by simply driving more carefully if they really wanted to, but it seems they don't.

PS, I was getting short of diesel in Somerset last week and came upon a filling station selling at £1.04, I carried on a further 5 miles to Tesco in Minehead and filled up for 97p a litre.

 

[flecc]

I agree Ian, business users won't easily be deterred, but as John said, it would at least finance free public transport for all, and that would make quite a lot of difference to private and some business motor vehicle use.

London proves it, since many of the cyclists are ex car commuters deterred by the £8 a day Congestion Charge. Having tried a bike, many now say how much more they enjoy it, so it's just a matter of getting them to try in many cases.

And of course those very cheap public transport fares attract some.
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[Ian]

Perhaps you see more positive signs in your area Flecc but all I seem to see is more grotesque 4x4s taking up more road space and being driven in a manner that does nothing for their already lousy fuel consumption. I don't recall seeing another cyclist during the recent holiday, mind you, given those hills that's perhaps not surprising!

 

[flecc]

We have that problem in suburbia too Ian, the darn things are everywhere and are widely regarded as essential for getting the little ones half a mile to school.

But again there are positive moves to do something about it, with a serious proposal to raise the congestion charge for 4 x 4s and all gas guzzlers to £25 a day. That'll give them cause to consider something more sensible.

It's noticeable that there are very much fewer of them in inner London now, and I don't remember seeing one in the inner area at the weekend.

There's lots still wrong here, just as everywhere else, but at least we see a constant stream of actions which do improve matters considerably.
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