2010 Kalkhoff Range

[Cyclezee]

The Kalkhoff e-bike range has been expanded to an amazing 13 models, how many of them will be available to the UK remains to be seen.
Link to Kalkhoff website in German Kalkhoff - EBike Pedelec Elektro-Rad Elektro-Fahrrad

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[HarryB]

I like the look of the Sahel Pro Disc 8-G Alfine as a low maintenance commuter bike but I am sure it will be expensive.

 

[tillson]

I like the look of the Sahel Pro Disc 8-G Alfine as a low maintenance commuter bike but I am sure it will be expensive.

I like the look of that one too!

 

[flecc]

Poor 50cycles, 13 models in 4 sizes plus some XXL models and not knowing how many of each might be needed for stock. I'm glad it's them and not me deciding.
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[Sarge]

Sahel

It states the price as from E2000.

 

[HarryB]

It states the price as from E2000.

Seems like most are E2000 but by the time the Sahel gets here it will be more like £2000.

 

[Tim]

Poor 50cycles, 13 models in 4 sizes plus some XXL models and not knowing how many of each might be needed for stock. I'm glad it's them and not me deciding.
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It was tough and we were up against a very tight deadline when placing our order. But we settled on it without too much problem. We usually get it just about right. So, we'll have some of everything, except the two hub powered models, the Jubilee and Agattu F, though if someone really wants one of them we could order it in.

The Sahels are just gorgeous in the flesh. The Sahel Pro is my favourite of the three - good colour, nice spec. But the Comp has a Brooks saddle and handlebar grips that should go down well too. The Sahels will only be available in smaller numbers though, and yes, the two top models will most likely be >£2000, unless combined oil, platinum and mature cheddar deposits are found off Scarborough and the pound rockets.

 

[HarryB]

It was tough and we were up against a very tight deadline when placing our order. But we settled on it without too much problem. We usually get it just about right. So, we'll have some of everything, except the two hub powered models, the Jubilee and Agattu F, though if someone really wants one of them we could order it in.

The Sahels are just gorgeous in the flesh. The Sahel Pro is my favourite of the three - good colour, nice spec. But the Comp has a Brooks saddle and handlebar grips that should go down well too. The Sahels will only be available in smaller numbers though, and yes, the two top models will most likely be >£2000, unless combined oil, platinum and mature cheddar deposits are found off Scarborough and the pound rockets.

Thanks Tim for the info. The best ebikes are getting really expensive now, do you think there is any room for making the payments easier to manage. For example £1000 on the cycle to work and the next £1000 on interest free credit? That would make it more manageable but I am not sure if you are allowed to do it.

 

[Tim]

Thanks Tim for the info. The best ebikes are getting really expensive now, do you think there is any room for making the payments easier to manage. For example £1000 on the cycle to work and the next £1000 on interest free credit? That would make it more manageable but I am not sure if you are allowed to do it.

Yes, we do offer interest-free credit, so that could well be a goer, splitting it in that way - there's a minimum £150 deposit, so the cyclescheme component would take care of that portion of it. Best to talk to Lloyd, he's the man with all the information about cycle scheme, advice on bike-fitting and a calculator to hand! I'm just a man with a mouse and a login.

 

[Dynamic Position]

Poor 50cycles, 13 models in 4 sizes plus some XXL models and not knowing how many of each might be needed for stock. I'm glad it's them and not me deciding.
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I'm so glad I bought an e-bike this year. With so many excellent new bikes coming on the market it would take a long time to choose between the different manufacturers/models.

 

[Sir_Bob]

Hi

Yes I wonder what xxl bike will be like, if I get my insurance money come in I will buy new one.

thx

Bob

 

[tillson]

The Sahels are just gorgeous in the flesh. The Sahel Pro is my favourite of the three - good colour, nice spec. But the Comp has a Brooks saddle and handlebar grips that should go down well too. The Sahels will only be available in smaller numbers though, and yes, the two top models will most likely be >£2000, unless combined oil, platinum and mature cheddar deposits are found off Scarborough and the pound rockets.

It is a very good looking bike. Is that a chain tensioner / guide at the back of the Sahel Pro? Does it still have the front tensioner arm as well? I am assuming that it is an Alfine 8 speed hub of course.

 

[flecc]

It is a very good looking bike. Is that a chain tensioner / guide at the back of the Sahel Pro? Does it still have the front tensioner arm as well? I am assuming that it is an Alfine 8 speed hub of course.

No, it's a derailleur on a normal hub with disc brake. These Panasonic units for derailleur use use a different and longer chain wrapper/tensioner with a double idler that you can see protuding behind the motor in this photo of one model. The idea is to stop any influence on the rear mechanism messing up the gear changing:


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[Phil the drill]

No, it's a derailleur on a normal hub with disc brake. These Panasonic units for derailleur use use a different and longer chain wrapper/tensioner with a double idler that you can see protuding behind the motor in this photo of one model. The idea is to stop any influence on the rear mechanism messing up the gear changing:

View attachment 955
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Hi Flecc,

Are you sure about that? The link on the first page to the web site shows only two Sahel models and, if my German serves me right, both are said to have an Alfine 8 hub. They both look in the pictures to have a chain tensioner rather than a rear derailleur. Is there another Sahel model I've missed that is more like the ProConnect S?

Phil

 

[HarryB]

Hi Flecc,

Are you sure about that? The link on the first page to the web site shows only two Sahel models and, if my German serves me right, both are said to have an Alfine 8 hub. They both look in the pictures to have a chain tensioner rather than a rear derailleur. Is there another Sahel model I've missed that is more like the ProConnect S?

Phil

It is an alfine hub on the Sahel pro. There are some alfine equipped bikes that use an extra tensioner although that is normally because they have vertical dropouts, which would make tensioning the chain difficult. Not sure why the kalkhoffs would have the extra tensioner.

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc,

Are you sure about that? The link on the first page to the web site shows only two Sahel models and, if my German serves me right, both are said to have an Alfine 8 hub. They both look in the pictures to have a chain tensioner rather than a rear derailleur. Is there another Sahel model I've missed that is more like the ProConnect S?

Phil

No, you're right, my mistake in looking at the range, apologies.

Not sure why the kalkhoffs would have the extra tensioner.

As I've remarked in here many times and also on my Panasonic website, the device on the motor unit is not a tensioner, it's a chain wrapper to ensure the chain maintains it's accurate path on the small motor sprocket. If it were a tensioner it's arm geometry would be very different as it's wrong at present for that purpose. In any case, Panasonic have given a measurement for the distance between the centres of the motor and and idler sprockets which has insufficient tolerance to give any meaningful tensioning.

That's why the rear tensioner is the only one performing that purpose on that Kalkhoff.

Here's Panasonic's photo giving the setting for the wrapper arm:

 

[tillson]

Why do some models have a chain tensioner at the rear and the chain wraper at the front, whilst some just have the wraper?

 

[flecc]

Why do some models have a chain tensioner at the rear and the chain wraper at the front, whilst some just have the wraper?

As Harry has said, some bike frames using vertical spindle dropouts need a tensioner when using a hub gear instead of the derailleur they are designed for. In Kalkhoff's case, many of their e-bikes are based on existing normal bike designs, for example the Agattu and Pro Connect existed long before they modified the frame to take the Panasonic unit to introduce them as e-bikes as well. Maybe the Sahel did also and they haven't duplicated the rear A frame assembly with a slot drop-out version necessitating fitting a tensioner.

However, since the design changes of the new unit have led to problems with the motor sprocket jumping the chain when the rear wheel adjustment has been wrong for the chain tension, they may be trying this alternative approach on hub gear bikes to maintain a correct tension and chain wrap with no chance of the user messing it up. That would make a lot of sense on this new unit, and the fact that they are also doing this on the new Pro Connect with the Alfine hub makes this the much more likely reason. If it proves successful, we may possibly expect to see this rear tensioner on the Agattu models as well in future.

The old Panasonic unit didn't have these same problems with the chain wrapper since it's 14 tooth motor sprocket maintained a good wrap with more variation in the wrapper arm setting, but the new unit's small 9 tooth sprocket with only 4 teeth engaged with the chain at any time to transmit up to 400 watts of power has caused chain jumping problems. That's why the derailleur versions are now forced to have an extended idler system to insulate the chain wrap from the excursions of the derailleur rear mechanism. The old unit's identical basic wrapper worked just as well with hub or derailleur gears, needing no fancy extension arrangement, thanks to the 14 tooth chain drive sprocket it used.

Why the change to the problematic 9 tooth sprocket? It results from the change of a three stage internal gear reduction to the single stage one for efficiency gain reasons, this resulting in a higher output shaft speed, therefore necessitating the smaller sprocket for the same linear chain speed.
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[tillson]

A verry comprehensive and informative answer as usual Flecc, thanks very much.