2012 Kalkhoff Sahel Compact Nexus

[Jonah]

Anyone got / tried one of these. Looks nice (to me). Especially interested in any comparisons between the Impulse system on this and the Bosch powered AVE-MH7. How do you think these 2 bikes compare?

Folding e-Bike - 2012 Kalkhoff Sahel Compact Nexus

Electric Bike Sales - Shop Online for Electric Bikes, Electric Vehicles and Cycle Accessories - Bosch AVE MH-7 Electric Bike

 

[eddieo]

AVE lighter, semi folds,10 speed SLX (I dont like hub gears).And Bosch system the best centre drive around for now. Try a Bosch system bike and then an impulse and see what you think...only so much you can do on line.

That impulse on sale and Bosch bikes rare should tell you something.

why do you want a small bike?

 

[Jonah]

Thanks Eddie. I have seen a couple of comments about Impulse system on other threads - I wonder if anyone has a positive thing to say about them? What range do you get from that 8Ah battery on the AVE?

 

[GORDONAL]

hI Jonah

I own an MH7 and tested the Sahel Compact

Of the two the MH7 is my bike of preference having the lively Bosch drive BUT the Sahel is a fine bike and especially with a healthy discount (50 cycles ) , I wish i had bought the Sahel as our 2nd bike ( for the missus) not the Wisper 806. If interested try 50 cycles and i reckon you could get a Sahel for a not insubstantial £400 less than the MH7 and good as that bike is the difference is not worth that.

Alan

 

[Woosh]

AVE lighter, semi folds,10 speed SLX (I dont like hub gears).And Bosch system the best centre drive around for now. Try a Bosch system bike and then an impulse and see what you think...only so much you can do on line.

That impulse on sale and Bosch bikes rare should tell you something.

why do you want a small bike?

Eddieo,

Bosch domination may be over within two to three years.
I have got test data of two new Chinese crank drive systems, one with built in torque sensor, the other without.
Both have excellent transfer yieds - much above 80%. That means at least 10% more miles per full charge than hub drives.
Both have better fitting system than Bosch and are also lighter than the Bosch and Tonaro.

Regards

 

[eddieo]

this is good review of Bosch system (ignore references to bike)

Bosch Cannondale E-series Review | ELECTRICBIKE.COM

Alan and myself have campers so a semi folder with small wheels was a requirement...I would not have one otherwise. but the hill climbing with small wheels is so good.

have a look on German pedelecs as derby cycles (Kalkhoff) and Bosch have 2 separate forums, lots of opinions from people in the know

Sounds great Hatti, at least two new German systems out next year, as well as Bosch mark 2 also...the more the merrier..more then happy enough with Bosch and it will take some beating.

 

[GORDONAL]

Hatti

So still a little way off yet with a reliable centre drive competitor , however if in 2-3 years and with the positive comments similar to what came from the long term test of your Sirocco there may be vastly increased interest . Next step must also include more hybrids like the 2 bikes under discussion at the outset of this thread.

Alan

 

[Woosh]

Gordonal,

Bosch will have a lot of competition from China as early as next spring.
The new products will be crude at first, but like the Borg, they'll evolve quickly.
I reckon by next summer, may be as much as half of Chinese bikes sold will have crank motors.

Regards

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Remember that although the 36v crank-drives are good and a vast step forward, the hub-motors are also advancing. More and more bikes are coming with the Bafang CST and BPM2 motors that'll give any crank-drive a run for their money. They're also much simpler, lighter and easier on the transmission. I still prefer the BH Emotion Neos to the crank-drives, and the 2013 line-up looks fantastic.

 

[eddieo]

funny that.....as chap on German pedelec, without an axe to grind, who owns both impulse drive bike and Bosch powered bike, and on the same route, the impulse ran out while the Bosch got him there.

all to be read over on German pedelec. There is good reason why the Bosch system has been adopted by over 40 major manufacturers..just get out and try both and make your own mind up.....

 

[GORDONAL]

8Ah battery with the efficient drive system means that you cannot compare different drive types . My older 10Ah 24V. Panasonic had a range with my useage of about 30 miles , the Bosch with a nominally smaller battery capacity at least equals that.

Alan

btw. I rode the Bosch and Kalkhoff Impulse systems virtually back to back and whether for right or wrong I found a small but significant advantage with the Bosch it just seemed more "perky"

 

[Tim]

btw. I rode the Bosch and Kalkhoff Impulse systems virtually back to back and whether for right or wrong I found a small but significant advantage with the Bosch it just seemed more "perky"

Impulse performance very much depends on which software profile is in play. I've been experimenting with a new version this week that gives lively performance both from a standing start and up hills.

We didn't go for the Agattu Bosch version this year as it's rather lacklustre in comparison with Impulse and then there's the range issue and battery lifetime (500 cycles vs 1100 for Impulse), plus usability with those 4 power profiles and 3 modes in each. The 350W Bosch 45 is awesome though, while the battery lasts.

 

[eddieo]

Ha Ha Ha...Try both and make your own mind up!

 

[NRG]

For heavens sake, format wars!

I think you are all wrong and whats needed is a dual hub drive bike like the one Dave built for himself, better climbing ability and better efficiency!

 

[GORDONAL]

Impulse performance very much depends on which software profile is in play. I've been experimenting with a new version this week that gives lively performance both from a standing start and up hills.

We didn't go for the Agattu Bosch version this year as it's rather lacklustre in comparison with Impulse and then there's the range issue and battery lifetime (500 cycles vs 1100 for Impulse), plus usability with those 4 power profiles and 3 modes in each. The 350W Bosch 45 is awesome though, while the battery lasts.

Tim you are in the best place to make such a judgemement over merits of each of the drive systems that Kalkhoff offer.

I am prepared if you wish to do a long-term test (unpaid) to compare MH7 and Sahel compact . I promise to be entirely objective and report warts and all.

Seriously I am still trying not to reply to your e-mail re price as sorely tempted by the value.

Alan

 

[Woosh]

For heavens sake, format wars!

I think you are all wrong and whats needed is a dual hub drive bike like the one Dave built for himself, better climbing ability and better efficiency!

Shouln't it be crank drive with torque sensor and rear hub motor, dual batteries - one for airlines and one for distance?

 

[tillson]

8Ah battery with the efficient drive system means that you cannot compare different drive types . My older 10Ah 24V. Panasonic had a range with my useage of about 30 miles , the Bosch with a nominally smaller battery capacity at least equals that.

I think the Bosch actually has a slightly higher capacity battery.

Old Panasonic 24V x 10 Ah = 240 Wh

Bosch 36V x 8 Ah = 288 Wh

Not a great deal separating them so the range of the Bosch with the marginally higher capacity battery will slightly exceed that of the 10Ah Panasonic. This seems to be what you are finding in practice. Nothing to do with efficiency of drive type, just that one has a bigger battery.

 

[eddieo]

but efficiently has a lot to do with it how good the Bosch system is and why many get a decent range.

Side by side with my hub motor bike on holiday, Bosch required far less charging and fast charger makes a big difference as well. I am not sure why the OP wants a small bike, but if its for transporting, the AVE is less then 20kg where the impulse 23kg, impulse does not fold + Ave has 10 speed and looks nicer to my mind. Big Apple tyres a real plus as well...

To me the sahel compact and very similar Flyer compact are not as well concieved for my needs.. but the sahel sale price is good!

 

[flecc]

I don't think the Bosch being on lots of bikes means anything since the Impulse system is Kalkhoff's and not available to anyone else.

I doubt if hub motors are much simpler when one takes into account the effect of components scattered around the bike with a rats nest of wiring around the frame. There's many more opportunities for water to cause problems as the threads in here so often show, and wheel removal is more complicated, especially with rear hub motors and even more so when there's no QD connector for the motor cables. The cable feeding the motor is often vulnerable to damage with numerous incidences of that, and the internal nylon gears wear out and need replacement.

Compare that with such as the Panasonic and Impulse units. Integrated with the battery in a single compact unit they just have a connection to the handlebar control unit. The internal gears last for life, they never suffer from water ingress damage and there's no exposed high current cables to get damaged. The bicycle parts are no different from normal so wheels are easy to remove and any bike shop can do the bike maintenance. Because they drive through the gears they need less power so with their software management they give batteries a much easier time, leading to proven longer battery life, four or five years being not uncommon. And they can tackle any hill met with any average rider, something no legal hub motor bike can do. The only disadvantage is higher transmission wear, but in five years and six thousand miles on a Lafree I never found that a problem..

Hub motors certainly have their own charms, especially for moderate territory, but it's crank drives that are the true all-rounders and mostly ultimately much simpler in ownership.

 

[eddieo]

Flecc my feelings exactly, and look forward to proper centre drive kits. No nest of wiring to go wrong, or motor wheel to worry about. I look at the AVE and there are only two wires on show, one to rear wheel sensor, and one to handle bar monitor that travels up frame anyway. No troublesome brake leaver cables either. not sure if centre drives even have a controller....

I think centre drives are the future and what with china apparently catching on to this (wont hold my breath on that one) the future looks bright. Main thing being you can climb anything on these bikes...