35mile winter commute - help

[eTim]

20 miles one-way in 1hr 15 mins, includes a battery change at the 16 mile point, lots of hills and medium assist from me sees me into work without needing a shower, if I take it easy I can add another 5 mins onto the journey.

Done on the Synapse (in my sig).

 

[Genesis750]

trek valencia

Hi have now tried Trek Valencia (like butmay be underpowered?), Wisper 905SE (also like but issues with reliability?) Alien Typhoon (just didnt like the throttle drive and the peddle assist felt vague and weak). Two bikes on ebay i wondered about - Lifecycle Mountain 250w, 37v, 17Ahr. how much attention should I be paying to the numbers? especially the gross weight. alien ocean apollo?

looks like i need to spend £1500 (my motoguzzi lemans cost less and my 170mph fireblade only cost 2200!!)

 

[NRG]

I think the Trek uses the Bionx system so direct drive and 350W, it is supposed to be quite good in 350W guise but outside the legal limit and only with 10Ah AFAIK...I also suspect it will not be easy to ride unassisted.

Why do you think the Wisper has reliability issues? Wisper probably has the best dealer network and backup second to none...with the 14Ah battery it should be able go the distance over your 36mile (?) commute.

Another choice would be a Panasonic powered bike, E-Motion, Kalkhoff etc. The standard 10Ah battery might leave you needing to charge at work but the Kalkhoff is available with an 18Ah now which would easily get you there and back.

Some don't worry about weight as lets face it you will ride with the power on! However, if like me, you do want to ride unassisted at times then it becomes a consideration, also a really heavy bike doesn't handle too well especially with a high mounted battery. The Panasonic bikes are good in this respect tending to be lighter than average and very easy to ride unassisted compared to the majority of hub powered bikes.

Beware of stuff on E-Bay, backup, support and reliability may be non-existent...

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi have now tried Trek Valencia (like butmay be underpowered?), Wisper 905SE (also like but issues with reliability?) Alien Typhoon (just didnt like the throttle drive and the peddle assist felt vague and weak). Two bikes on ebay i wondered about - Lifecycle Mountain 250w, 37v, 17Ahr. how much attention should I be paying to the numbers? especially the gross weight. alien ocean apollo?

looks like i need to spend £1500 (my motoguzzi lemans cost less and my 170mph fireblade only cost 2200!!)

Hi Genesis

It would be interesting to know where you heard about reliability problems on the 905se?

Of course we do get the occasional teething problem, however they are all sorted out pretty well immediately. If anyone ever has a problem that is not resolved straight away please let me know, I make my personal mobile number and email address public so any one can contact me directly. However I very rarely get a call about reliability. What you can certainly rely on is that if you ever have a problem and are not getting satisfaction from your wisper centre, let me know and I will rectify.

All the best

Happy Christmas!

David

 

[Tim]

looks like i need to spend £1500 (my motoguzzi lemans cost less and my 170mph fireblade only cost 2200!!)

You should consider the Kalkhoff Pro Connect LX - seems to fit the bill and your £1500 budget

Kalkhoff Pro Connect LX 2010

The 2011 Oxygen Emate City is different but very good too

Oxygen Emate City Electric Bicycle

 

[allen-uk]

Genesis: I note that your budget has increased from around £1000 originally to its current £1500... nearly everyone (including me) goes through the same process!

I think it's going to come down to Wisper vs Kalkhoff for the tough commuting you're proposing. Neither will do 25mph average (repeat: AVERAGE) unless you are one strong guy who is up with the top amateur cyclists. Both will do 15 to 20 average, fairly legally, still with quite a lot of physical input.

Two major differences between them (there are others, but these two I think matter more): one is price. For £1500, you'll get a brand-new Wisper with all that implies in terms of warranty and history; for £1500 you will be into second-hand Kalkhoffs. (I know Tim of 50cycles says the Connect LX is in budget, but I think you would want a higher spec. battery than comes as standard).

Nothing wrong with buying second-hand, but it will make it harder to find a good one. The second major difference is an operating one: Wispers have a conventional throttle, as well as pedal input; Kalhoffs have no throttle. Many riders, of course, don't find that a problem.

As Flecc says, it isn't really that complicated, and if you lowered your sights regarding average speeds, it becomes less of a problem.


Allen.

 

[Genesis750]

thanks

Many thanks for guidance. it does look like the wisper is on top - I had picked up on the Kalkhoff and Panasonic names. just to be clear budget is not fixed and has always been overa 1000. and an average of 20mph would be fine. i had envisaged that there might be a variable pedelec system - for example uphill providing 50% assist at 10-12mph and on the flat providing say 30% input at 25 (I now know this is not legal). i dont think i would ever want over 50% assist. as a general rule it does seem that bikes are rapidly improving and presumably newest is better? as a general rule is the bigger battery better - 14Ahr btter than 10Ahr.

 

[Genesis750]

hey the oxygen has 37v, only 20kg and 15AHr of LiPo - why is this not unbeatable?

 

[fishingpaul]

Many thanks for guidance. it does look like the wisper is on top - I had picked up on the Kalkhoff and Panasonic names. just to be clear budget is not fixed and has always been overa 1000. and an average of 20mph would be fine. i had envisaged that there might be a variable pedelec system - for example uphill providing 50% assist at 10-12mph and on the flat providing say 30% input at 25 (I now know this is not legal). i dont think i would ever want over 50% assist. as a general rule it does seem that bikes are rapidly improving and presumably newest is better? as a general rule is the bigger battery better - 14Ahr btter than 10Ahr.

Take a look at the ezee range before deciding on a hub motor bike,they have a very powerfull motor also a 14ah battery,very similar pricing but probably higher spec parts, and i think an ezee assist dial can be used to give the amounts of assistance you desire.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

This is more like the emails I normally receive!

Received this morning from a Wisper Centre in New Zealand.

David

What a pleasure!

I've assembled three bikes in the last few days, two this morning, while listening to some cruisy music.

I enjoy seeing the evolution of these bikes over the last two years since I bought my first 905se. Each time another model comes along the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) design changes sneak up on me and cause me to smile or chuckle with delight.

I feel surprisingly proud to be part of the Wisper bike network and find it so easy to speak with confidence about their super design and construction.

Congratulations to all involved!

James

Happy days!

All the best

David

 

[piotrmacheta]

Very interesting reading all the options. I had this dilemma a couple of years ago. I wanted a lightweight, fast bike but I only needed a range of about 10 miles.
After brilliant advice on this forum my route was to fit an ezee kit to my mountain bike. It was so good I went on to fit one to my recumbent bike.
With some tweaking it can go up to 25mph and I have gone 50 miles on a 10Ahr battery by being careful but typically my commute uses 2.5 to 3 Ahr for 7 miles of thrilling riding!
I now use a 5Ah LiPo wighing 1.5kg and the bike is light enough to pedal without noticing the weight too much and with barely any resistance.
Clearly with the kit and the price of a bike it will take you over budget but buying a good bike is an investment and when you fancy you can take the hub and battery off and ride it as normal.
That reminds me, I must weight my bike.

 

[allen-uk]

Genesis: another thing you might find once you get riding is how the battery behaves. I thought it would be like a petrol tank - full up, fine, empty, get it filled again.

No so. It operates much more like a battery (surprise!), so when it is just charged it goes like the clappers, then gradually as it discharges you get less 'oomph' from it - just like a torch battery running down.

What I'm saying is this: don't be too dogmatic at this stage about what percentage of power you're going to use, as it is more likely to be lowish for the first miles, and then 100% towards the end of your journey when a) you're tired, and b) the battery is moving from full to less full.

Allen, Wisper 905.

 

[Genesis750]

budget always goes up?

LOts of thanks to all who have inputted. have enjoyed reading the fora looking for THE answer. I have concluded that my requirements are probably best met by a panasonic system - 20mile each way, mostly relatively flat apart from one 2mile (1:12 steepest bit) hill. It would read that its easiest to get the gearing right for me with the panasonic (and probably alfine hub and yes I know my choices dont have alfine). I want to cruise at 20-22mph with a little assist and hope to average about 17/18 - nearly all quiet rural roads.

Have narrowed it down to: Emotion Cross, Kalkhoff 2010 Lx or Wisper 905SE (based on price and dealer support - I know its not panasonic). there is also a 2nd hand 2009 Pro Connect at 800 but struggling to get info on the exact spec (its probably an "S" in which case thats the one) from seller (who is 250miles away so will be a blind buy and if the battery is duff it takes the price close to a new bike (assuming cycletowork discount of 300-400 on the first £1000). Any last views or advice. And the sun is shining so off on my 1990 raleigh - no assist.

 

[eddieo]

I have seen the Kalhoff PC for sale in classified, and cant see how you got the impression it is an S model?

 

[tillson]

LOts of thanks to all who have inputted. have enjoyed reading the fora looking for THE answer. I have concluded that my requirements are probably best met by a panasonic system - 20mile each way, mostly relatively flat apart from one 2mile (1:12 steepest bit) hill. It would read that its easiest to get the gearing right for me with the panasonic (and probably alfine hub and yes I know my choices dont have alfine). I want to cruise at 20-22mph with a little assist and hope to average about 17/18 - nearly all quiet rural roads.

Have narrowed it down to: Emotion Cross, Kalkhoff 2010 Lx or Wisper 905SE (based on price and dealer support - I know its not panasonic). there is also a 2nd hand 2009 Pro Connect at 800 but struggling to get info on the exact spec (its probably an "S" in which case thats the one) from seller (who is 250miles away so will be a blind buy and if the battery is duff it takes the price close to a new bike (assuming cycletowork discount of 300-400 on the first £1000). Any last views or advice. And the sun is shining so off on my 1990 raleigh - no assist.

If the Kalkhoff is a 2009 model, I would assume that the battery is duff and factor that into the price that you are prepared to pay. A new battery is about £500. Find out which model it is,and the price when new in 2009, subtract £500 (battery) from that figure. Divide the remainder by 2 and offer the seller that as a starting point. You can then negotiate from there.

I would have thought that it's a good time to buy now. The weather isn't very appealing, so the market will be flat and the Christmas bills will be coming in so money will be in short supply.

 

[Bob_about]

Hi Genesis

I was in same position around 12 months ago and put a fair bit of effort into choosing my current bike

Performance wise the stats here and here are about what you are looking for (with the derestrict switch in the naughty position)

I wrote a bit about my search in this thread and put further detail in this document which may be some interest.

I have since covered around 2800 miles on the bike - nowhere near as many as I had anticipated for a variety of reasons, none to do with the bike - latest has been a change of job since 1st November which has seen the ebike spend most of its time in the shed and a small Honda 125 scooter being purchased for the increased daily miles.

I hope the above info is of interest - give me a shout if I can help any further. The Ezee GTS with dual batteres would certainly be capable of everything you ae looking for.

All the best & Happy New Year

Bob_about

 

[eddieo]

I would think Bobs bike almost perfect for you.....

 

[thunderblue]

maybe I could help?

I have seen the Kalhoff PC for sale in classified, and cant see how you got the impression it is an S model?

Hi Genesis

If you can find out where it is in Manchester, if it isn't too far away then I could take a peep for you... at the least I could check the battery capacity. I'd need some way of contacting them to look, so if you want to check this out, send me a pm with any relevant info.

 

[deadmonkey]

Some really useful information there Bob, you're very comprehensive!

I've been using my Kalkhoff Pro Connect S to do a 20 mile round trip, including two pretty hills which each last a mile or so. I found that being fairly relaxed about my use of the high setting - using it for a couple of miles each way, it was possible to risk running out of juice before I got home - happened to me twice over about 8 weeks.

Because of the challenge of finishing the day with a bit of an uphill struggle, and because during the coldest spells I was most appreciative of the high assistance, I've taken to giving it a recharge during the day too.

 

[Genesis750]

spec of Proconnect

I have seen the Kalhoff PC for sale in classified, and cant see how you got the impression it is an S model?

From the quoted original purchase price and an archived test article from Dec 08 which suggested that there were only two models available in early 09 - in other words hopeful guessing!