You don't necessarily have to be old and decrepit. Our local area has the scooters available free (or for a voluntary contribution) if you are incapacitated in any way, and a couple of years ago I used one several times during a few months when my leg was in plaster. Their great advantage over ebikes (apart from the chance to swear at pedestrians, of course) is that you can ride them into shops and zoom up and down the aisles. No chance of conflict with lycras either!
A Good Toy While the Battery Lasted
- Thread starter Charlie
- Start date
Battery pricing
Hi Guys
Sorry about the confusion, the old site is gone now.
I have to agree with Tim, keeping battery prices down in the last few months has been tricky to say the least.
I have recently however had a slight reduction in my costs but instead of marking the prices down I have installed a new Battery Management System, which continually keeps an eye on the battery. In particular it constantly monitors the individual cells to make sure they are all discharging at the same rate if it finds a problem it loads / unloads any that are out of kilter with the rest. This maximises both the range and life of the battery.
At £485.00 (£435.00 after PX with your old battery) our 37V 14A battery is not cheap. However remember it has a massive 518Wh (which equates to a miserly 84 pence per Wh). Our 37V 8A battery is less expensive at £285.00 (£235.00 with PX) and delivers a very respectable 296Wh but is more expensive at 96 pence per Wh).
So if the full price of a 14A replacement is too high you can always swap for the smaller 8A version.
Best regards David
Hi Guys
Sorry about the confusion, the old site is gone now.
I have to agree with Tim, keeping battery prices down in the last few months has been tricky to say the least.
I have recently however had a slight reduction in my costs but instead of marking the prices down I have installed a new Battery Management System, which continually keeps an eye on the battery. In particular it constantly monitors the individual cells to make sure they are all discharging at the same rate if it finds a problem it loads / unloads any that are out of kilter with the rest. This maximises both the range and life of the battery.
At £485.00 (£435.00 after PX with your old battery) our 37V 14A battery is not cheap. However remember it has a massive 518Wh (which equates to a miserly 84 pence per Wh). Our 37V 8A battery is less expensive at £285.00 (£235.00 with PX) and delivers a very respectable 296Wh but is more expensive at 96 pence per Wh).
So if the full price of a 14A replacement is too high you can always swap for the smaller 8A version.
Best regards David
Hi, David.
I worked it out today that if the battery lasts 2 years and with the £50 discount for swapsies I would need to put aside just over £18 a month. That beats £80 a month trainfare hands down. Like I said in an earlier post, I take my battery to be like fuel (albeit a fuel with a deferred cost, use it now, cough up later).
I think the old adage "You don't get something for nothing" fits here. Mind you, if the battery lasts 4 years then that's only nine quid a month. I'm glad this came up because now I can make sure I put money by ready for the event. By then the price might be cheaper anyway and I might be able to afford the downpayment on a British Rail sandwich next time I use the train.
BTW, that's about 6p a mile or (for me) 90p a day (£3 cheaper than the train).
Best regards.
Vikki.
I worked it out today that if the battery lasts 2 years and with the £50 discount for swapsies I would need to put aside just over £18 a month. That beats £80 a month trainfare hands down. Like I said in an earlier post, I take my battery to be like fuel (albeit a fuel with a deferred cost, use it now, cough up later).
I think the old adage "You don't get something for nothing" fits here. Mind you, if the battery lasts 4 years then that's only nine quid a month. I'm glad this came up because now I can make sure I put money by ready for the event. By then the price might be cheaper anyway and I might be able to afford the downpayment on a British Rail sandwich next time I use the train.BTW, that's about 6p a mile or (for me) 90p a day (£3 cheaper than the train).
Best regards.
Vikki.
When 'ye old Powabyke' needed new batteries (they lasted the best part of 5 years) I did consider changing to the new 'hi-tech--low weight' variety.
Until I saw the amazingly HIGH PRICE!.
£180 for the 'batteries ordinaire' was more than enough thanks. I am not unduly worried about the weight of the machine and I am a 'lightweight' myself. I use it only for very short local trips, I am never in a hurry and it purrs along very nicely thankyou, for what I need from it. The longest ride I do is about 10 miles each way and it can manage that on PA.
Until I saw the amazingly HIGH PRICE!.
£180 for the 'batteries ordinaire' was more than enough thanks. I am not unduly worried about the weight of the machine and I am a 'lightweight' myself. I use it only for very short local trips, I am never in a hurry and it purrs along very nicely thankyou, for what I need from it. The longest ride I do is about 10 miles each way and it can manage that on PA.
Hi, Stranger. Hope the day finds you well.
My Powabyke (retired) went through it's original Panasonic SLA's in 14 months but given the mileage I was doing I wasn't really surprised. I got about 350 charges out of them but my journey (15 miles per day) with part pedaling and part power-on-demanding was strenuous for them. When new I figure the depth of discharge would have been around 75%. If I had charged them at work during the day when they were still above half full I suspect they may have lasted a lot longer. Of course, by the time they started to lose range the depth of discharge was increasing to over 90%.
You did very well to get 5 years out of them but to regular distance commuters that are getting on toward maximum range they don't last so well. Mind you, motor efficiency is increasing now with clever controllers for brushless motors so range is improved and depth of discharge is no longer as great. That leads to longer battery life.
12Ah batteries (just 2Ah less than the Panasonics) were driven into a greater level of discharge from the off and I was getting between 120-150 charges before the batteries curled up their toes. With my new bike I'm able to do the 15 miles and still be over half full when I put Bikey on charge. I expect the battery to enjoy a high number of charges (me touches wood).
The Powabykes are good, though. I certainly enjoyed mine. I've still got him. Any of the main players these days are pushing out good bikes and it comes down to personal taste and needs. I liked the Wisper. Others like the Kalkhoff, others go Powercycle or Powabyke or another. Like cars really. I liked the idea of Kalkhoff and came very close to buying one but I really needed power-on-demand and not just PAS. It was that that made me go for the Powabyke two and a half years ago (and the price).
When I had Old Faithful I started saving for my next one about one and a half years after getting O.F. The only way I could upgrade really - save a substantial amount towards a more expensive bike. I'm really pleased with the Wisper. It does what I need it to do and it's a joy to ride. But I'll never forget Old Faithful and how strong, well built(ish) and reliable he was (still is).
The only thing I ever had to do to O.F. was to make more solid connections for the two parallel MOSFETs on the controller. I noticed one day that the PCB holes around the legs were burnt and it looked like the MOSFETs had been running in liquid solder. If that had kept up the devices wouldn't have lasted much longer. I tested both and they were fine so I beefed up the pads around the devices so that heat could move away a bit better to the larger copper lands and all was well. Bet that happened in the high winds when he and me were both under heavy load.
Best regards and may you long enjoy your bike
Vikki.
My Powabyke (retired) went through it's original Panasonic SLA's in 14 months but given the mileage I was doing I wasn't really surprised. I got about 350 charges out of them but my journey (15 miles per day) with part pedaling and part power-on-demanding was strenuous for them. When new I figure the depth of discharge would have been around 75%. If I had charged them at work during the day when they were still above half full I suspect they may have lasted a lot longer. Of course, by the time they started to lose range the depth of discharge was increasing to over 90%.
You did very well to get 5 years out of them but to regular distance commuters that are getting on toward maximum range they don't last so well. Mind you, motor efficiency is increasing now with clever controllers for brushless motors so range is improved and depth of discharge is no longer as great. That leads to longer battery life.
12Ah batteries (just 2Ah less than the Panasonics) were driven into a greater level of discharge from the off and I was getting between 120-150 charges before the batteries curled up their toes. With my new bike I'm able to do the 15 miles and still be over half full when I put Bikey on charge. I expect the battery to enjoy a high number of charges (me touches wood).
The Powabykes are good, though. I certainly enjoyed mine. I've still got him. Any of the main players these days are pushing out good bikes and it comes down to personal taste and needs. I liked the Wisper. Others like the Kalkhoff, others go Powercycle or Powabyke or another. Like cars really. I liked the idea of Kalkhoff and came very close to buying one but I really needed power-on-demand and not just PAS. It was that that made me go for the Powabyke two and a half years ago (and the price).
When I had Old Faithful I started saving for my next one about one and a half years after getting O.F. The only way I could upgrade really - save a substantial amount towards a more expensive bike. I'm really pleased with the Wisper. It does what I need it to do and it's a joy to ride. But I'll never forget Old Faithful and how strong, well built(ish) and reliable he was (still is).
The only thing I ever had to do to O.F. was to make more solid connections for the two parallel MOSFETs on the controller. I noticed one day that the PCB holes around the legs were burnt and it looked like the MOSFETs had been running in liquid solder. If that had kept up the devices wouldn't have lasted much longer. I tested both and they were fine so I beefed up the pads around the devices so that heat could move away a bit better to the larger copper lands and all was well. Bet that happened in the high winds when he and me were both under heavy load.
Best regards and may you long enjoy your bike
Vikki.
hello Vicky.
I am not a serious cyclist I'm afraid. I use the PB to get to the stables where I keep my horses and back again, to get to the local 'superstore', for small amounts of shopping, and, very occasionally, if the weather is nice and I am feeling virtuous, to visit my sister. The last time I did that though, the weather turned round on me and I ended up cycling ten miles home in a torrential downpour.
I actually do have one of those funny bikes that you have to propel along purely by human muscle power, as well. An odd idea I feel--but it does seem to work.
I am not a serious cyclist I'm afraid. I use the PB to get to the stables where I keep my horses and back again, to get to the local 'superstore', for small amounts of shopping, and, very occasionally, if the weather is nice and I am feeling virtuous, to visit my sister. The last time I did that though, the weather turned round on me and I ended up cycling ten miles home in a torrential downpour.
I actually do have one of those funny bikes that you have to propel along purely by human muscle power, as well. An odd idea I feel--but it does seem to work.
Tell me about it. My Forza came with a wonky battery from 50 cycles, they wouldn't honour their warranty so I had to buy a new one direct from Ezee (the Sanyo battery) Ezee were very good and sent me a phylion along with the Sanyo.
Anyways...... 8 months in and that sanyo battery has been returned to China cause it was as good as useless (Ezee claim it's "perfect") the original dodgy battery that came with the Forza is absolutely dead as a dodo and the one remaining phylion I have is nowhere near as "potent" as it was a couple of months ago so, there you go........ 2 batteries clapped out and a third on it's way out.
erm.......... "£400" a pop CERTAINLY is not cheap for batteries that last years.... it's a criminal price to pay for batteries than pack in after only "months" of light usage.
Fair's fair Ezee refunded the cost of the Sanyo battery and let me keep the phylion.... so, after all is said and done, I am still in receipt of 1 working battery (if it had been up to 50 cycles I wouldn't have a battery at all)...... let's just say, if I had to pay £400 a pop for these turd batteries I would not be happy at all!
Electric bikes are great but without a battery they are just heavyweight pieces of junk that would provoke a heart attack if you wanted to travel more than 5 metres on them..... No WAY am I paying £400 when my 1 remaining Phylion pops it's clogs, way too many variables involved with these batteries, it's cheaper to take a taxi or pedal your arse on a conventional bike.
I'm on number four eZee lithium battery, from mid 2006, lives of six months and six months in parallel, ten months and the current one well over a year and still going strong, so clearly things are improving. My NiMh one has filled in in between times over that 2.5 years.
.
.
I'll be disappointed if my battery fails that quick. I'd definitely look toward modding to fit 3 off 12, 12Ah SLAs. Current battery weighs 2.3kg, the SLAs would clock in at 6kg. It would at least keep the bike in use. I do understand that this kind of thing would be beyond a lot of people. Maybe there should be an SLA alternative because that at least is proven technology (as is NiCd or NiMH).
Vikki.
Vikki.
Not for the very powerful motors on these eZee bikes Vikki. It would take excessivley heavy SLAs to supply adequate current for a long enough range.
The NiMh batteries that most eZee models were designed with in the first place were fine, and eZee's success was built on those. Unfortunately the headlong rush into lithium for most high discharge uses led to the mass production of high discharge rate D cells being abandoned, so when the lithium ones started failing, the bridges had been burnt leaving no alternative.
Lithium is at long last coming good, but still at present only with a two year life at best with most of them, especially when used in a very high discharge way as with the most powerful motors.
.
The NiMh batteries that most eZee models were designed with in the first place were fine, and eZee's success was built on those. Unfortunately the headlong rush into lithium for most high discharge uses led to the mass production of high discharge rate D cells being abandoned, so when the lithium ones started failing, the bridges had been burnt leaving no alternative.
Lithium is at long last coming good, but still at present only with a two year life at best with most of them, especially when used in a very high discharge way as with the most powerful motors.
.
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