ADVICE/ADVICE - Think my battery has Finally died !!!

[bilabonic]

This is the same as well, only 9AH BUT China, import costs and delivery time upto 27th December !!

 

[wheeliepete]

But unable to add to basket as i can not add location for the 48v ?

Out of stock on 48v one, now this is the battery you SHOULD buy, decent cells and seller who will fix any problems you have.

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/product/48v-14-5ah-panasonic-ncr18650pf-tiger-shark/

 

[bilabonic]

This looks like my ONLY option atm for UK/Quick delivery ????

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-12-5AH-500W-Black-TIGER-SHARK-Li-oin-Battery-for-Electric-Bicycles-E-Bike/123309868627?epid=10020390452&hash=item1cb5d74653:g:VfAAAOSwJkhbcjkj:rk:46:pf:0&autorefresh=true

 

[bilabonic]

Out of stock on 48v one, now this is the battery you SHOULD buy, decent cells and seller who will fix any problems you have.

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/product/48v-14-5ah-panasonic-ncr18650pf-tiger-shark/

Should buy being correct, i've just had new boiler fitted on Monday..lol

The old one was 9Ah looking at it, which was fine as i do short trips...I Always stick it on charge everytime as well as the battery monitoring is rubbish..

I am amazed the faulty battery had Samsung Cells !!

It was a crappy/cheap Chinese bike (even though it is STILL better than my Khalkhoff..

 

[Nealh]

The charger led is a dual colour one, I have four 2a chargers and they all are like it.

Did you look at the BMS charging mosfet I mentioned as it will be the cause of charging not taking place if it is damaged.

 

[wheeliepete]

It's not all about range, more important is the stress that is put on the cells with the current they are asked to provide and their ability to provide it. I agree the price difference is large, but the lifespan of the battery could be larger.

 

[Nealh]

Going back to #1 we are looking at 48v, ideally you will want to match the batteyr as mentioned to the max controller ramp draw.

For a cheap bms this one on ebay should be with you in a few days but has no switch wiring so you would have to do without, 51mm x 69mm.
Also no soldered tails attached so you need to do some board soldering and attach three wires C- charge, P- discharge & B- battery.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-13S-35A-BMS-PCB-Board-PCM-Electric-Bike-Li-ion-Battery-Protective-Plate-UK/292609543026?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=55148&meid=a4f0180ee860447a930414471ceae2bd&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=292609543026&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

Otherwise agree with quality ones from Ann via Aliexpress.

 

[bilabonic]

The charger led is a dual colour one, I have four 2a chargers and they all are like it.

Did you look at the BMS charging mosfet I mentioned as it will be the cause of charging not taking place if it is damaged.

I could not see any damage on the FET ?

I really need to remove the double sided tape from below the PCB tbh...

I honestly have dual and single LED chargers, my dual led ones where from BMSBATTERY years ago from when i made my own Bafang Build (best bike i EVER had !!)

 

[bilabonic]

Going back to #1 we are looking at 48v, ideally you will want to match the batteyr as mentioned to the max controller ramp draw.

For a cheap bms this one on ebay should be with you in a few days but has no switch wiring so you would have to do without, 51mm x 69mm.
Also no soldered tails attached so you need to do some board soldering and attach three wires C- charge, P- discharge & B- battery.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-13S-35A-BMS-PCB-Board-PCM-Electric-Bike-Li-ion-Battery-Protective-Plate-UK/292609543026?_trkparms=aid=555017&algo=PL.CASSINI&ao=1&asc=55148&meid=a4f0180ee860447a930414471ceae2bd&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=292609543026&_trksid=p2045573.c100505.m3226

Otherwise agree with quality ones from Ann via Aliexpress.

Not worried about the ON/OFF switch tbh, think i have one here somewhere that i made years ago, from a guide on here, but never fitted/used it..

I have NEVER switched the battery off once anyway..

Think i will order that now.....

I need a new soldering iron as well, can't find my old big one, only have a 15w pencil Antex for small work...

I also just found a x6 of 22v/5a Hobbyking batteries, charger/leads with EC5 terminals etc from another build..

They will be up for sale, i stopped at making the harness to charge/balance ALL six batteries at one time..Dave8 or someone helped me with that build.

I 'nipped' one cell with a knife and they ALL went up in smoke !!!

I just purchased a 36v/17Ah big blue battery with inbuilt BMS from BMSBATTERY..lol

 

[bilabonic]

It's a 1000w Brushless rear hub and 48v controller, Cyclotricity branded.

My brother actually gave it to me last year, terrible frame/build quality.

But as you have seen it has Samsung cells with it, it's lasted 3 years !!

 

[wheeliepete]

It's a 1000w Brushless rear hub and 48v controller, Cyclotricity branded.

AFAIK those bikes come with a 30 amp KT controller, you can check this by opening the controller box. If so, those Chinese celled batteries you are looking at are likely to struggle with that high demand and very quickly deteriorate. A decent celled battery is essential with a high power system like yours. Slum it with the Kalkhoff for a while and wait until you can afford a battery to match your system.

 

[bilabonic]

Samsung cells are not good then ? Because that what it has, not lookd at how many mA, they are ?

I have messaged the seller above, i have funds for a decent battery but as i explained the original one has lasted 3 years with daily use...

I must of been lucky then, my 36v/17aH battery only lasted one year !! Plus i was 2 stone lighter back then...lol

 

[wheeliepete]

Samsung are one of the best manufacturers and make great cells, but each cell has a model number and a discharge capability which must be matched to their use. Look at this selection of Samsung cells and compare price, capacity (mAh) and discharge ability (A). For high power ebikes you must have cells with high discharge otherwise they cannot supply the current needed to power the motor.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/brand/samsung.html

 

[bilabonic]

Yea i understand that, i did put part details of the Samsungs in one of the post's, i will check them tomorrow but they have been great, i also presumed discharge was measured in C rating, it was with my Hobbyking ones eg..They can discharge a LOT of amperage quickly/on demand.

Cheers

 

[wheeliepete]

C rating is more commonly used with Lipo (Hobbyking) cells, although often exaggerated and they can still outperform the best 18650 in discharge performance. It would be good to know exactly what cells are in your battery pack.

 

[bilabonic]

Yep, Hobbyking, Turnigy batteries i have (and have had) Lithium Polymer, think they are 30C rated @ 5000mA, so thats 150a constant Draw !!

I need to sell them as well as the charger etc

I'll check the Samsung 18650's tom and the controller...

I think the way its ALL set up as 'plug/play' is awesome tbh, i'm trying to get my old bike back with Triangle bag, hydraulic brakes, pressure brake sensors from Germany and a tiny rear cassette....

Thanks for helping/advice it is MUCH appreciated !!!

 

[bilabonic]

Had the new

Samsung are one of the best manufacturers and make great cells, but each cell has a model number and a discharge capability which must be matched to their use. Look at this selection of Samsung cells and compare price, capacity (mAh) and discharge ability (A). For high power ebikes you must have cells with high discharge otherwise they cannot supply the current needed to power the motor.

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/brand/samsung.html

These are the batteries that came with the cheapy Chinese bike - (2900mAh !!
https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-29e-2900mah-e6.html

I have just had the controller delivered and it only has 3 connections -
C-
P-
B-

Can anyone confirm what goes where ? I presume the neutral/- are linked to make 4 connections to 3

Pics attached..(If better quality ones are needed i can upload to Dropbox or similar)

Cheers Guys

 

[bilabonic]

Plus the new BMS seems a MUCH netter design with x6 transistors and ALL linked to the Alu heatsink for heat dissipation....(the old one had x3 with a rubbish thin foil heatsink!!)

 

[Nealh]

Samsung 29E are ok for low power of 17/18a but better at <15a.

C- is the charge V- , solder Black wire from the battery charge inlet. Bottom left wire on old BMS.

P- is battery discharge V-, solder Black wire from the battery discharge pin out. The fused wire on old BMS.

B- is main battery pack V-, solder Black wire from the pack. Bottom right wire on old BMS.
Old BMS B+ isn't needed so cut and insulate.

New BMS will take V+ feed from the sense wiring.

Assuming you first sense wire is Black, solder this to battery pack B- or by looks of it splice /solder/insulate to the thin Red wire from the old BMS jst block.
Other sense wires are probably Red or White, connect in order to cells 1 - 13 so check correct cell voltage before soldering each one.
BMS sense wire block by looks of it goes Red = B-, Black = B1+, Yellow = B2+, Green B3+ etc, etc.

Ideally you should have got a BMS with switch function, cut the switch wires one at a time and insulate ends.

 

[bilabonic]

Samsung 29E are ok for low power of 17/18a but better at <15a.

C- is the charge V- , solder Black wire from the battery charge inlet. Bottom left wire on old BMS.

P- is battery discharge V-, solder Black wire from the battery discharge pin out. The fused wire on old BMS.

B- is main battery pack V-, solder Black wire from the pack. Bottom right wire on old BMS.
Old BMS B+ isn't needed so cut and insulate.

New BMS will take V+ feed from the sense wiring.

Assuming you first sense wire is Black, solder this to battery pack B- or by looks of it splice /solder/insulate to the thin Red wire from the old BMS jst block.
Other sense wires are probably Red or White, connect in order to cells 1 - 13 so check correct cell voltage before soldering each one.
BMS sense wire block by looks of it goes Red = B-, Black = B1+, Yellow = B2+, Green B3+ etc, etc.

Ideally you should have got a BMS with switch function, cut the switch wires one at a time and insulate ends.

Yep that sense wire confused me, when this BMS works i can order one with a switch....I just want it running atm mate...

Hopefully i will get a chance to sort it tonight (If the Mrs allows..lol)

That sense wire confused me....