Are ebikers saving the planet?

[Barnowl]

I bought my ebike for a number of reasons, and to be honest reducing my carbon footprint was low down on my list.

We pay a retail price that many consider exorbitant; can we at least console ourselves that batteries are a reasonably efficient use of the world’s limited energy resources?

Just to get back to the plot. I believe we can console ourselves that our bike batteries are a reasonable use of limited resources. I recall reading elsewhere that they have an even lower carbon footprint than a normal bike since there's an assumption normal cyclists eat loads of extra beef to provide the requisite leg power and that meat production produces loads of carbon. Sounds flaky to me too

 

[Alex728]

Just to get back to the plot. I believe we can console ourselves that our bike batteries are a reasonable use of limited resources. I recall reading elsewhere that they have an even lower carbon footprint than a normal bike since there's an assumption normal cyclists eat loads of extra beef to provide the requisite leg power and that meat production produces loads of carbon. Sounds flaky to me too

I suspect e-bikes are also more eco-friendly than a "lycra's" bike at the same price point as they tend to get used more often for commuting in all weathers (many of the lycras actually drive to their races )

Also the higher end e-bikes do seem to encourage a more constructive business relationship between their British/European designers and the Chinese factories, (this is clearly demonstrated by Wisper) and if they are making slightly more profit on the bike it is this which gives the factory managers the option to have "slack time/thinking time" (rather than just concentrating on core business activities) in order to implement more environmentally friendly methods of production..

 

[NRG]

Hopefully I contributed a little bit today as I played Postman delivering Xmas cards to friends and neighbors that would have otherwise gone in the post. 16 miles on the dot round trip in the local area saved our petrol and also the posties diesel!

 

[Straylight]

This means they can (and do) change tactics very quickly, and a fair few of them do actually realise that to save themselves they do need to "save the planet".

But this is essentially what we mean when we talk about 'saving the planet'; the planet will still be here wether we survive or not, so maybe we should be honest and say "ensure our own survival, whilst absolving ourselves of guilt for our brutal abuse of the ecosystem". I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about this whilst using my bike, but I at least feel like I'm minimising the harm.

I think the revolution, if there is one, is one of ideology, where we no longer see the earth as a resource to plunder at will, but ourselves as another expendable species dependant upon it.

 

[Barnowl]

I think the revolution, if there is one, is one of ideology, where we no longer see the earth as a resource to plunder at will, but ourselves as another expendable species dependant upon it.

Totally agree.

 

[z0mb13e]

So has the ice age theory gone the way of the Dinosaurs? (That being that every 100,000 years or so we hit an ice age? It comes in cycles and as we approach a new ice age the climate fluctuates until it hits tipping point and then we slip into an ice age). The theory suggests we are about 20,000 years over due (though I expect it is like predicting the weather).

Its a given that what we as a species affect our environment - for good or ill. How much of what we do affects the climate and how serverly is another matter.

It is also a given that the climate of the planet changes. How much of what we are doing is directly affecting the climate now and how much of it would have happened anyway is the tricky bit... (as someone pointed out earlier) we just don't have enough information to tell for sure. If the ice age theory is to be belived then all the evidence pointing to global temperature rises could just be pointing to an 'up' on the graph and may start heading back down in 10, 20, 100 years or more and we could continue like that for thousands more. On the other hand it could be the prelude to an ice age. I for one will not be too upset as long as I can snowboard in summer in Dorset on real snow.

 

[Mussels]

I for one will not be too upset as long as I can snowboard in summer in Dorset on real snow.

I'd be happy as my tyres will last much longer on snow.

 

[eTim]

So has the ice age theory gone the way of the Dinosaurs? (That being that every 100,000 years or so we hit an ice age? It comes in cycles and as we approach a new ice age the climate fluctuates until it hits tipping point and then we slip into an ice age). The theory suggests we are about 20,000 years over due (though I expect it is like predicting the weather).

Its a given that what we as a species affect our environment - for good or ill. How much of what we do affects the climate and how serverly is another matter.

It is also a given that the climate of the planet changes. How much of what we are doing is directly affecting the climate now and how much of it would have happened anyway is the tricky bit... (as someone pointed out earlier) we just don't have enough information to tell for sure. If the ice age theory is to be belived then all the evidence pointing to global temperature rises could just be pointing to an 'up' on the graph and may start heading back down in 10, 20, 100 years or more and we could continue like that for thousands more. On the other hand it could be the prelude to an ice age. I for one will not be too upset as long as I can snowboard in summer in Dorset on real snow.

I'm sure that this debate will rumble on for a few thousand years to come....

 

[Straylight]

So I suppose the answer to the original question is: no, but at least it's a way that people can begin to do their bit, whilst waiting for the Powers That Be to come up with a magic cure for the foundation of most of the world's current problems .....

 

[jasono]

Interesting thread this. I did purchase my ebike to reduce help reduce my carbon footprint and each time I use the bike rather than get in the car it's got to help

Ebikes alone will not save the planet, but if everyone does something to reduce their impact on the environment or at least be aware/responsible of their actions then it would be a breath of fresh air

I would suggest, if you've not yet seen it, to have a look at 'the age of stupid' docu-film with Pete Postlethwaite. I don't want to have to explain to my children and grandchildren why, when we had the chance, we did nothing to help the planet

Jason

 

[prState]

This is one of the fundamental flaws in modern democracy as I see it, that the 'people' feel they've every right to comment, regardless of their understanding of the detail, so the whole system ends up being paralysed by emotionaly driven, uninformed argument.

As a layman, non-scientist, non-expert, and not really able to comprehend the full complexity of the issue though I do keep reading more to understand more, I would argue from a logical viewpoint (as a non-expert) the most logical thing I can do (for the meantime) is concur with the larger group of experts over the smaller group. If this means, indeed, that my belief is akin to the belief that the Earth is flat or the Heavens revolve around the Earth, so be it.

Science is always self-correcting, but generally, doesn't one go with the *"Expert" consensus if one has nothing better? And if not, why not?

*I say expert with quotes -- I guess my own definition would be, what is your background education; have you studied in the field and what research have you done; can you reel off the counter arguments which you should know thoroughly as well as details of the researchers who hold various different opinions. For that matter, I expect you have probably worked with and debated other experts in your field of study, and have you footnoted all that in your own research that's relevant to the subject?

~

By the way, E-bike seemed like a good idea for practical means, that was my primary reason

 

[prState]

Also, I consider Flecc an expert in my not professional opinion, but that's because his indepth knowledge can be tested regularly (by me!)

 

[prState]

Science is always self-correcting,

...I think I meant to say it is constantly correcting, or not perfect usually -- not exactly what I put there.

EDIT: as far as understanding complex things, I have to share a favorite quote I pulled from article about IBM building a computer model said to be smarter than a cat (some accomplishment eh?) ( i do not defend the truth of the quote, I just enjoy it)

...building a highly accurate simulation of a complex, nondeterministic system doesn't mean that you'll immediately understand how that system works—it just means that instead of having one thing you don't understand (at whatever level of abstraction), you now have two things you don't understand: the real system, and a simulation of the system that has all of the complexities of the original plus an additional layer of complexity associated with the models implementation in hardware and software.

 

[Straylight]

One of the best arguments I ever heard for acting on the assumtion that climate change is man made, and that we can do something about it, runs something like this: that the consequences of us doing nothing in the event that it's real far outweigh the inconvenience caused by acting only to find our actions are pointless.

I'm paraphrasing heavily, but like I said earlier, what is so scary about shifting the path of future development to include a sensible and sutainable approach to resource management? Surely the long term benefits outwiegh the short term costs. Why, for instance, as a suposedly sophisticated & technically advanced species, do we ignore the true source of most of the earths natural energy, that being the giant fusion reactor in the sky? Rather we continue to canabalise the very finite planet that we depend upon for survival. I don't forsee a human diaspora into space happening any time soon, so just how crazy and irresponsible are we?

 

[Alex728]

One of the best arguments I ever heard for acting on the assumtion that climate change is man made, and that we can do something about it, runs something like this: that the consequences of us doing nothing in the event that it's real far outweigh the inconvenience caused by acting only to find our actions are pointless.

I ride from Ipswich to a Mid Suffolk village every day (I have a strange feeling you may do exactly the same but in the other direction!)

Although climate change is more abstract, I notice every day the adverse effects of human behaviour and the excessive use of cars. Rubbish thrown into every street corner (the worst in Mid Suffolk not being businesses but household trash flytipped presumably by people who disagree with the Council's attempts to limit the amount by giving out smaller bins).

Every other hour hearing the whoop of sirens of cops going to yet another RTC on the A12/A14, or the traditional "nee naw" (still used here!) of the Fire Brigade going to put out cars and houses set alight by angry disaffected youths from large "families" where the adults don't care for them..

to me seeing all this with my own eyes and hearing it with my own ears means far more than some abstract figures or things going on in far away foreign lands, and changing my mode of transport is a small sacrifice for a single childless man to make (usually one of the worst sectors of society for hyperconsumption)

 

[Straylight]

I generally only ride as far south as Snape, so maybe there's a third Wisperer in the county

I agree that the problems in society are complex, and the term 'environment' works on the local as well as the global scale. I just feel that in order to make a significant difference to the macro environment, it needs as many people as possible doing all they can for their micro environments. It doesn't matter what their motivation is ultimately. If the demand is there, then it will be in the self interests of the politicians and leaders of industry, along with the ever dominant financial sector to persue policies to deliver what the electorate/consumers/customers/investors want. You only have to look at the rise of fairtrade, and ethicaly farmed goods to see this is the case, thirty years ago no-one cared where their chickens came from.

 

[bode]

One of the best arguments I ever heard for acting on the assumtion that climate change is man made, and that we can do something about it, runs something like this: that the consequences of us doing nothing in the event that it's real far outweigh the inconvenience caused by acting only to find our actions are pointless.

I agree totally with this, but unfortunately I see no will, either by individuals or governments, to do much about it. Hence my (only slightly ironic) earlier remarks about our all being doomed. And I am by nature a very optimistic man.

In our household, we dutifully use as many low-energy bulbs as possible, we don't leave appliances on standby, and we recycle nearly eveything, and generally act as good little greenies. But then I see vast empty offices with all the lights and computers left on all night, and think "why are we bothering?" And just today, I have seen again the frequent sight in this rural area of the "train" of about twenty vast 4x4s of a shooting party, jamming up the narrow lanes; each with one occupant. Why can't they use a mini-bus, or at least fill each vehicle?

Multiply this sort of thing all accross the globe, and you see the scale of what we are up against.

 

[Straylight]

Absolutely, but the scale of the problem shouldn't cause one to lose personal motivation. It's a question of quietly working toward a situation where the notion of 'being green' disapears, and is simply thought of as being normal. There is movement, what with tungsten lightbulbs being phased out, more energy efficient electronics being developed, banded taxation on cars etc.

I also make something of a pain of myself by nagging friends who have bicycles to use them more, and occasionally slip in to conversation how low our electricity bills are .

In some ways I think that climate protestors can be counter productive, by appearing so different from Mr/Ms average, perhaps they'd have greater impact if they all wore suits to go marching. I'd certainly be an eye/camera catching image anyway...

 

[z0mb13e]

Reducing my overall energy consumption definitely played a part in my choosing an eBike. I now do 2/3rds of my annual mileage by bike and hate using the car. (As an aside my ebike has been out of action since friday and I have been using the car, where the hell has the new unofficial speed limit of 20mph come from? Seems every other car is crawling along at 20 regardless of traffic.)

I have done all the usual things like using energy saving blubs, have even been able to replace downlighters with dimmable energy saving blubs since last year and non dimmable for the last few years. Putting in remote switchable appliance sockets to shut off power to applicances (saves having to root around behind cabinets to reach power switches). The house is now insulated top, bottom and sides and requires considerably less heating, not that we have it on much anymore. I am in the process of looking at the practicallity of renewables. We have started with the old school wood burning stove (yes it polutes), and now have to look at the cost of solar heating vs ground source heat pumps. I would love to go for a decent sized wind turbine as we live at the top of a hill and it is usually windy but I doubt the neighbours would go for that just yet. Solar electricity is viable with storage batteries and inverters but is a bit wasteful what with the inverters. Perhaps we need domestic DC power outlets and low more low power devices.

Above all the cost is stopping me. I have the will, just not the resources to effect change as quickly as I would like.

 

[Straylight]

Sadly I'm in a similar position, would love a wind turbine and to swap the rayburn for one that could use wooden pellets (it currently runs on coal), but can't afford either

Incidentaly, we too use a wood burner for heating, which is carbon neutral in my view. In fact we don't use any other forms of heating (aside from the odd hot water bottle ).