Argos £245 folding Bike Improvements

[Ghost1951]

I wouldn't waste money on pads. Hydraulic brakes can be had for £20. By the time you've bought pads, you're half way there and it probably won't solve your problem.

Cable brakes have to bend the disc to press it against the fixed pad. You can see that when you look from the top while you operate the brake. In the period between the bending starting and the disc reaching the fixed pad, the moving pad is just rubbing on the disc without any braking force. The whole concept is fundamentally flawed. As the pads wear, the bending of the disc becomes more extreme, so it's vital that you make regular adjustments to the fixed pad to keep it as close to the disc as possible. Without doing that adjustment, the lever on the caliper will eventually over-ride its stop and jam in that position.

Thanks. A pretty flawed idea then....

 

[saneagle]

Thanks. A pretty flawed idea then....

Use them as they are. Keep them properly adjusted. As soon as you need to spend money, chuck them and get something decent. That's my advice.

 

[Ghost1951]

Use them as they are. Keep them properly adjusted. As soon as you need to spend money, chuck them and get something decent. That's my advice.

Thankyou.

 

[Ghost1951]

Today's photo of my new steed.



I'm really loving this funny little bike for all its feeble controller.

This morning, being a rather nice bright day I went for a ride with my partner on her Pendleton. Hers definitely has more power on the hills, unless I really work hard, she catches up with me, but she is probably 25% lighter than I am, so that needs to be factored in.

It is great, and practical little run about as long as you are not too heavily built or particularly tall, which I am not.

I have now covered 138 miles and taking the little folder for what it is - a cheap knock about, it is working great for me.

Today we went to Beltingham on our ride out, to see an ancient Yew tree in the churchyard which is said to be at least 700 years old. We would have had a look in the church which is a grade one listed, but it was locked. I was happy as a sand boy all the way there and back along the valley.

 

[saneagle]

The KT controllers arrived from Topbike kit. I'm not sure when because they went to my old address and I had to wait for friends to bring them round, but we can say no more than 10 days.

Now the bad news. While the controllers are grinning at me from the table, I've been sitting in the armchair writhing in pain. I'm now back in the acute medical ward reacquainting myself with my friends from a month ago. Not gall stones, not bloodclots, even though I have both, now suspected kidney stone. Wish me luck for when they thread the grabber through my front appendage, through my bladder and up to the kidney. I've heard it's not very pleasant. The nurses are nice here, so every cloud has a silver lining. I haven't pulled yet, but I'm confident

 

[AntonyC]

Step 2 - more torque
[...] The battery weighs 2.3kg, so I calculate it must be a 30 cell one if 18650s or 20 cells if 21700s. The screws are all sealed with hot-melt glue, so I don't really want to open it to see what cells they are. Whatever they are, they should be able to manage at least 12 amps. I didn't notice any significant sag when climbing at 8 amps, so I'd have reasonable confidence in increasing it a bit. I might increase it in stages to see how much sag I get, which is an indication of how hard the cells are being pushed.

As the Battery Fires thread flickers on I just want to put this out there for others who may not have Saneagle's experience, estimation skills, stepwise approach, knowledge of what to look out for etc.

Disposing of heat can be a pain with electronics. If you reduce the resistance of the shunt by 30% the controller will allow 1/70% = 40% more current, making 1.4^2 = twice as much heat at full power, and that demands well above 100% headroom at the design stage in every power-train part, which is no mean ask.

With bikes being so exposed cooling's often not a problem, and motors and MOSFETs are famously robust, but every part of the power-train needs thinking through.

Suppose you tuck the messy wires into the controller box. Later you replace the 8A controller with a 15A KT one and run it at level 2 or 3 to be kind to the small battery, with throttle for that instant full power. Probably we'd all keep full-on bursts short, mindful that they'd be making 3.5 times the usual heat in the motor. However that's 3.5x throughout the battery as well and the surplus wires, normally so exposed that we don't think of them as warming up, are adding 3.5x their usual heat trapped at one end of the battery. The battery itself may not be up to the current either.

For more torque on my own folder I fitted a larger rear sprocket. Dave knows his way around with this stuff, we all learn from sharing experiences and I'm keen to hear more. It's just that even 'innocuous' 30% changes aren't something to copy only on the basis of it working for someone else.

P.S. Bl**dy hell that sounds nasty, all the very best with it, could even get to try Morphine?

P.P.S. Forgot to mention just how temperature sensitive cells are.

 

[Ghost1951]

The KT controllers arrived from Topbike kit. I'm not sure when because they went to my old address and I had to wait for friends to bring them round, but we can say no more than 10 days.

Now the bad news. While the controllers are grinning at me from the table, I've been sitting in the armchair writhing in pain. I'm now back in the acute medical ward reacquainting myself with my friends from a month ago. Not gall stones, not bloodclots, even though I have both, now suspected kidney stone. Wish me luck for when they thread the grabber through my front appendage, through my bladder and up to the kidney. I've heard it's not very pleasant. The nurses are nice here, so every cloud has a silver lining. I haven't pulled yet, but I'm confident

Oh dear - I am now laughing that you have your priorities right (pulling nurses) but that's just your sense of humour making the best of a bad job. I am very sorry this has happened - mainly of course because I want to see how the KT improves the bike, and now i will have to wait ...... no ... not really. This is rotten luck and I hope it isn't too horrible. I hope they will give you one of those leather jobbies - to bite on while they extract whatever it is they find up there. Hope it goes well and that you are soon restored to your full prowess and without pain.

You really have had a bad run these few weeks. Hope when they fix you, this is the end of it.

Keep us informed.

 

[saneagle]

As the Battery Fires thread flickers on I just want to put this out there for others who may not have Saneagle's experience, estimation skills, stepwise approach, knowledge of what to look out for etc.

Disposing of heat can be a pain with electronics. If you reduce the resistance of the shunt by 30% the controller will allow 1/70% = 40% more current, making 1.4^2 = twice as much heat at full power, and that demands well above 100% headroom at the design stage in every power-train part, which is no mean ask.

With bikes being so exposed cooling's often not a problem, and motors and MOSFETs are famously robust, but every part of the power-train needs thinking through.

Suppose you tuck the messy wires into the controller box. Later you replace the 8A controller with a 15A KT one and run it at level 2 or 3 to be kind to the small battery, with throttle for that instant full power. Probably we'd all keep full-on bursts short, mindful that they'd be making 3.5 times the usual heat in the motor. However that's 3.5x throughout the battery as well and the surplus wires, normally so exposed that we don't think of them as warming up, are adding 3.5x their usual heat trapped at one end of the battery. The battery itself may not be up to the current either.

For more torque on my own folder I fitted a larger rear sprocket. Dave knows his way around with this stuff, we all learn from sharing experiences and I'm keen to hear more. It's just that even 'innocuous' 30% changes aren't something to copy only on the basis of it working for someone else.

P.S. Bl**dy hell that sounds nasty, all the very best with it, could even get to try Morphine?

P.P.S. Forgot to mention just how temperature sensitive cells are.

Your right, but you can get a good estimate of how hard you're pushing the batteries from the sag. The heat generated in the battery P=IV. We know the current, so can calculate the heat from the voltage drop. When batteries are pushed too hard, the sag is high, so a lot more heat is generated.

A lot of my knowledge of how much power you can get from motors and controllers has come from actual tests. When I get that information, I try to give sensible advice based on my experience and judgement. I wouldn't advise anybody to do anything risky

 

[AntonyC]

Not suggesting for a minute that you'd advise amiss. Just trying to point to how electrically modifying a bike can need skills on a different level to buying a kit or doing the sums to build from parts. Real world experience shows there's a lot of headroom in many of these products in normal circumstances, that can be nibbled at successfully for useful gains, but we should be aware that small mods can cost big bites out of that headroom and that's where your (saneagle's) experience is invaluable - in case anyone assumes they can just copy.

Yes P=IV, when the current rises it increases the voltage drop as well which is where the 'current squared' comes from, as in: heating power = current squared * resistance (despite battery voltage staying the same). Copper resistance also rises with temperature, for each 50 C that adds 20% to the heating effect (3.5x --> 4.2x). Like a hub motor the isolated case means you're unlikely to feel a battery getting hot inside, and the BMS could be sensing the middle of the pack rather than the warmer controller + wire bundle end.

 

[Waspy]

The KT controllers arrived from Topbike kit. I'm not sure when because they went to my old address and I had to wait for friends to bring them round, but we can say no more than 10 days.

Now the bad news. While the controllers are grinning at me from the table, I've been sitting in the armchair writhing in pain. I'm now back in the acute medical ward reacquainting myself with my friends from a month ago. Not gall stones, not bloodclots, even though I have both, now suspected kidney stone. Wish me luck for when they thread the grabber through my front appendage, through my bladder and up to the kidney. I've heard it's not very pleasant. The nurses are nice here, so every cloud has a silver lining. I haven't pulled yet, but I'm confident

FFS, we've all been waiting for news on you fitting the new controller and now you go and get sick again. Well, thanks very much you inconsiderate bar steward.

 

[Waspy]

Today's photo of my new steed.

View attachment 59644

I'm really loving this funny little bike for all its feeble controller.

This morning, being a rather nice bright day I went for a ride with my partner on her Pendleton. Hers definitely has more power on the hills, unless I really work hard, she catches up with me, but she is probably 25% lighter than I am, so that needs to be factored in.

It is great, and practical little run about as long as you are not too heavily built or particularly tall, which I am not.

I have now covered 138 miles and taking the little folder for what it is - a cheap knock about, it is working great for me.

Today we went to Beltingham on our ride out, to see an ancient Yew tree in the churchyard which is said to be at least 700 years old. We would have had a look in the church which is a grade one listed, but it was locked. I was happy as a sand boy all the way there and back along the valley.

View attachment 59645

I enjoy reading your updates, so thanks for posting them.

I'm curious, what is it about this little bike that you like so much? Is it the 20" wheels, the fact that it folds, or what?

It makes me wonder how much fun a fully powered little folder would be.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

The KT controllers arrived from Topbike kit. I'm not sure when because they went to my old address and I had to wait for friends to bring them round, but we can say no more than 10 days.

Now the bad news. While the controllers are grinning at me from the table, I've been sitting in the armchair writhing in pain. I'm now back in the acute medical ward reacquainting myself with my friends from a month ago. Not gall stones, not bloodclots, even though I have both, now suspected kidney stone. Wish me luck for when they thread the grabber through my front appendage, through my bladder and up to the kidney. I've heard it's not very pleasant. The nurses are nice here, so every cloud has a silver lining. I haven't pulled yet, but I'm confident

Best wishes for a fast recovery. I had a kidney stone once it was horrific pain. At the time I had a lot of salads with spinach which is a huge cause I found out. I now rarely have spinach and take a stonebreaker Chanca Piedra pill occasionally just to break down the sediment in my kidneys and stop them forming stones. By making my kidneys a little less blocked it seems to have helped lower blood pressure a bit too which is not something I had read they would do but I guess cleaner kidneys means the heart doesn't have to work as hard or something. Just found a link stating it is known to lower blood pressure. I'm always dubious about claims about herbal remedies but there is some medical trials supporting Chanca Piedra. I only take about 1 per week now but when I had the kidney stone I was taking it at least once a day. I was given an emergency pack by the doctor if I had another kidney stone but didn't need it in the end, I think to deal with the pain. One kidney stone is enough.

Health Benefits of Chanca Piedra

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[Bonzo Banana]

One feature on the little Argos folder that is annoying me is the awful squawking and screaching that comes from the brakes whenever it is wet. It happens all the time , but gets really loud when there is any rain or even mist.

I might upgrade, but will it be the pads, the disk, or just the brake mechanism itself which is the problem?

I don't want to install hydraulic calipers and find that the noise was coming from the disk after all.

You could try a bit of copper grease on the back of the brake pads, copper grease helps prevent high frequency vibration. I use copper grease a lot on bikes as a heavy rider and bikes like to complain with minor noises when I'm riding them.

 

[Ghost1951]

I enjoy reading your updates, so thanks for posting them.

I'm curious, what is it about this little bike that you like so much? Is it the 20" wheels, the fact that it folds, or what?

It makes me wonder how much fun a fully powered little folder would be.

It is hard to pin down, but I like the compact nature of the thing. It is small, and I am keeping it in my kitchen just now, and I can just whizz it out and I'm off to the shops, or wherever I need to go. I mostly just ride it out for fun, and it does what I need. of course I am also a Brompton rider, so I am used to small bikes, not that the Brompton is made the same - it is a much superior piece of engineering, and is probably half the weight of the Argos bike.

I have also kind of got used to the quirky rapid acceleration produced by the combination of speed controller (full on to the step speed you set on the handlebar device) and the torque produced by the small wheel. It shoots off with a will, and then tails off at whatever speed you set. I generally ride it in the mid speed setting which is perhaps about 11 or 12 miles an hour. It tails off there and you are left putting in all the work yourself. If the gradient increases or you tire of making the input force yourself, you feel it starting to gently come back in. Yesterday I was coming back from my partners place a couple of miles away after I had had some dinner with her, and since it was almost dark, I left it in the third setting to get back quickly. The road is undulating and the wind was in my face. The motor took me up to about 15 miles an hour and my pedalling cadence was about as high as I am prepared to go (very low gearing). It felt in the semi darkness that I was flying along. I really enjoyed that. I have decent LED torch, jury rigged to my cycling helmet and the ride was kind of exciting. It's only a couple of miles of empty road, but I felt really alive and well and delighted to be riding it.

This is just a description of my emotional reaction to riding the bike and because we are all unique in how we react, your experience may be different. The thing is bare bones in comparison to my BBS01 conversion, but that has been standing unused since I went over to Gilsland with my niece two weeks ago today. That might tell you something. I have ridden the Argos tiny bike every day I have been here where it is stored.

By the way - it folds, but it is a bit of a pig to fold up. The middle hinge beside the pedals is a tricky device. NOTHING like as simple as the brompton one.

This bike is far from perfect, you'll find its hill climbing ability rather limited (8 amp max controller) but it I find it a barrel of fun.

Right - The sun is out, so I am off out to play on it again.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

It makes me wonder how much fun a fully powered little folder would be.

I end up using my (wife's ?) little folder quite a lot, it is ideal for nipping to the shops or for errands. I admit to enjoying the reaction from people of this big burly 6'4" man powering along at quite a speed (thanks to the 11t freewheel and akm 74 motor / KT 36v / 15 amp controller) on this little pink folder with "Summer" and "Bella" emblazoned on the frame. With the Woosh bag battery and akm 74 front hub, it's not immediately obvious that it is electric and when I overtake some lycra clad "roadies" up a long incline they look a bit bemused. It's dead light (16kg) easy to get out and I can also fold it up and take it indoors when I get to my destination. Also , it was the simplest conversion ever !

In my list of builds that I want to do "sometime" is start from a Carrera Intercity disc 9 folding bike which has a 9 speed cassette (with 11t cog) and hydraulic brakes - seen them secondhand on Facebook for £200, and add a lightweight kit with either a Woosh bag battery or (for ease of battery removal and charging) frog battery. Think the Carrera is 12.5 kg + 4kg for a lightweight conversion - ultimate folding e-bike !

 

[Waspy]

In my list of builds that I want to do "sometime" is start from a Carrera Intercity disc 9 folding bike which has a 9 speed cassette (with 11t cog) and hydraulic brakes - seen them secondhand on Facebook for £200, and add a lightweight kit with either a Woosh bag battery or (for ease of battery removal and charging) frog battery. Think the Carrera is 12.5 kg + 4kg for a lightweight conversion - ultimate folding e-bike !

Interesting. There is a Carrera Intercity disc 8 (cable disks - easy fix) on Facebook right now for £130. 40 miles from my house.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Interesting. There is a Carrera Intercity disc 8 (cable disks - easy fix) on Facebook right now for £130. 40 miles from my house.

Go for it - just check if it has steel front forks ? if not you could do a rear hub conversion using an AKM100 possibly (2kg)

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[saneagle]

FFS, we've all been waiting for news on you fitting the new controller and now you go and get sick again. Well, thanks very much you inconsiderate bar steward.

Don't worry, it'll be done soon. Sorry to let you down. Everything is done and all the wires are routed through ready to connect to the new controller. It's just the bending down at the moment.

I'm not sure whether it's good news, but latest diagnosis is an infection that they're treating with antibiotics; however, they're not sure about it, so they want to keep me in for a couple of days to monitor my kidney function and wait for some special urine test that should give a result one way or other.

The worst thing about my stay here is that nearly everybody else in the ward is a lot worse than me. They put on a brave face, but I can see that they're worried. This ward is for people that come in with sudden problems that need treatment.

 

[Ghost1951]

Get well soon.

 

[saneagle]

Get well soon.

DYB, DYB, DYB, I'll do my best.

I can't wait to try it. Actually, I'm kicking myself because the pain wasn't too bad on day one, so I was going to fit the controller, but after opening the box, I was a little uncomfortable and I figured that it would be better to wait 'til tomorrow when I'd be better.