Batteries - any new players in 4 years ?

[KirstinS]

Good afternoon

I've been a long while off the forum for a number of reasons and find myself a little disconnected from the latest in battery tech and suppliers

My 4 year old 36v pack made of LG mj1 cells is way past its best and nearing retirement.

It used to be pretty much buy new from handful of suppliers such as BMS battery , Eflie bike in China or sometimes local.suppiers could help like woosh (though in back of my mind only if you bought your kit from them) and Brighton ebikes similar.

Or of course the Jimmy recell option which I note is downsizing and selective on jobs from a other post.

I have tried the searches but not seen much. Are there any new kids on the block? There is a mobility scooter.place that has a spot welder and some skills. They would weld a pack if I get the cells. So that is another kption though prob not cost effective.

Any advice gratefully received

 

[soundwave]

jimmy might only want to do small jobs from now on so worth asking him if he can build you a new batt or if he knows of anyone he could recommend.

 

[guerney]

@Nealh mentioned some months ago, that he has an unused V1 of this DIY ebike battery assembly kit - no welding required:

VRUZEND battery kit V2.1 – VRUZEND DIY Battery Kit

vruzend.com

 

[Woosh]

or sometimes local.suppiers could help like woosh (though in back of my mind only if you bought your kit from them) and Brighton ebikes similar.

I do sell batteries on their own but my prices are not competitive compared to those on amazon or ebay. I use only Samsung and Panasonic cells and SANS chargers.
It's the kits that I sell only with batteries unless you already have one from us and need a second identical for a second bike. This is to make life easier for support.

 

[Nealh]

There are three or four cell sellers Kirstin, nkon or Fogstar wholsale are the go to places. Fogstar are by far my to go choice as they vet and test cells for genuine quality, the issue is stock.
My last two buys from foggy were LG hg2 and the v,g moli p42a, both bought for 2p 12s packs. Probably best cell at the mo is moli p28a in 18650 form beats the pants off all 3500mah cells to 3.3v, thanks to it's 25a rating and it keeps the voltage higher.
In 21700 form moli p42a is a great cell though soon to be replaced by the p45a.

With the p28a one needs 2021 cells with letter L in the date code as this is the uprated version of the cell.


The cell choice in 21700 format is huge and the 18650 choice is pretty simple now with only 5 or 6 worth considering.

Molicell are a major player and up their with other big brands.
For value their are a few pretty reasonable china branded cells now from the likes of sinowatt, BAK, eve & lishen.

 

[KirstinS]

I do sell batteries on their own but my prices are not competitive compared to those on amazon or ebay. I use only Samsung and Panasonic cells and SANS chargers.
It's the kits that I sell only with batteries unless you already have one from us and need a second identical for a second bike. This is to make life easier for support.

That's for clarifying! , apologies for my poor recall !

 

[guerney]

Fogstar's wholesale price for the P28A is low enough for me to dream about chucking 60 (for 15.6ah) into two Vruzend kits and adding their BMS, which looks easy, as everything tends to on Youtube. However, waterproofing the cell pack and attaching it to my rear rack will be somewhat trickier.

Molicel P28A | Fogstar Wholesale

Molicel P28A from Fogstar Wholesale | The number one source for wholesale lithium ion batteries and accessories in the UK

www.fogstar-wholesale.co.uk

VRUZEND battery kit V2.1 – VRUZEND DIY Battery Kit

vruzend.com

36V 10s Battery Management System (BMS) – VRUZEND DIY Battery Kit

vruzend.com

 

[KirstinS]

There are three or four cell sellers Kirstin, nkon or Fogstar wholsale are the go to places. Fogstar are by far my to go choice as they vet and test cells for genuine quality, the issue is stock.
My last two buys from foggy were LG hg2 and the v,g moli p42a, both bought for 2p 12s packs. Probably best cell at the mo is moli p28a in 18650 form beats the pants off all 3500mah cells to 3.3v, thanks to it's 25a rating and it keeps the voltage higher.
In 21700 form moli p42a is a great cell though soon to be replaced by the p45a.

With the p28a one needs 2021 cells with letter L in the date code as this is the uprated version of the cell.


The cell choice in 21700 format is huge and the 18650 choice is pretty simple now with only 5 or 6 worth considering.

Molicell are a major player and up their with other big brands.
For value their are a few pretty reasonable china branded cells now from the likes of sinowatt, BAK, eve & lishen.

Hey Neal !

Great to hear from you and the reply just goes to show how out of date I am! Never heard of most of that lot and the appearance of 21700 format in ebikes was for outlier homebuilds previously

Though I wonder how they fit into hailong cases or are there new 21700 specific cases these days ?

Top info, thank you sir

K

 

[Nealh]

Not sure about HL cases Kirstin, but think typically with a 5000mah cell one will have a 3p format for a std case, there are larger cases that supposedly take 25ah or more so means that 5 or 6 parallel can fit in.

There are a pletherer of 5000mah cells, most are rated about 10a. Like the 18650 format if one wants higher discharge cells for less voltage sag one has to look at 21700 cells iwith lower mah rating..
On Nkon there were some 5600mah cells LG m58t but it seems to be a one off acquisition from a failed car project.

The two best cells are likely the expensive sam50s a 35a cell and the more affordable moli p42a a 25a cell. Choosing as you know depends on range needed and terrain.

I use the p42a as 12s2p for my tsdz2 Kona ute towing my trailer sometimes laiden with 100kg, range is 24miles for respectable 15.5 wh pm usage.

 

[KirstinS]

Not sure about HL cases Kirstin, but think typically with a 5000mah cell one will have a 3p format for a std case, there are larger cases that supposedly take 25ah or more so means that 5 or 6 parallel can fit in.

There are a pletherer of 5000mah cells, most are rated about 10a. Like the 18650 format if one wants higher discharge cells for less voltage sag one has to look at 21700 cells iwith lower mah rating..
On Nkon there were some 5600mah cells LG m58t but it seems to be a one off acquisition from a failed car project.

The two best cells are likely the expensive sam50s a 35a cell and the more affordable moli p42a a 25a cell. Choosing as you know depends on range needed and terrain.

I use the p42a as 12s2p for my tsdz2 Kona ute towing my trailer sometimes laiden with 100kg, range is 24miles for respectable 15.5 wh pm usage.

Thanks Neal , I'd prefer not to have to build myself so ill have a look around for a prebuilt with those cells options and perhaps email.jimmy too.

I don't need more than 15ah /17ah really. I run my bbs at 21a rather than 24a

 

[Nealh]

Using the very good cells, one will be looking for a bespoke battery builder.
One did mention a mobility scooter seller with a spot welder, I assume this is local on the S/coast so would be an option if one bought the cells.

Jimmy has/is down scaling the business and looks like the company is going to work from home, likely battery building may be scaled back some.

 

[KirstinS]

Using the very good cells, one will be looking for a bespoke battery builder.
One did mention a mobility scooter seller with a spot welder, I assume this is local on the S/coast so would be an option if one bought the cells.

Jimmy has/is down scaling the business and looks like the company is going to work from home, likely battery building may be scaled back some.

Thanks again Neal, one question for you is do you have any knowledge of the tesla 4800mah 21700 cell? I found a supplier for 19.2ah 36v packs using these cells at a reasonable price in the slimmer HL 1 casing

 

[Nealh]

One assumes any Tesla cell is likely to be a reclaimed one from a crashed car that hasn't caught fire, afaik panasonic produces the tesla NCR21700T a 4800mah cell but some tesla 3's use a 5000mah cell. It is thought both cells are panasonic.
The NCR21700T and the 5000mah cells are 10a rated but for cycle life <7a per cell is recommended, being a reclaimed cell one doesn't have a clue how the cells have been used. Internal resistance may be higher then a new one who knows ?

Also afaik the cell for teslas's aren't availble as new for retail so they will be a used/reclaimed cell.

 

[KirstinS]

Thanks Neal, off i go searching armed with your knowledge

 

[Nealh]

Kirstin use the link below for an idea of how cells compare at different current draw.
Some of these are old tests and the moli's for instance have improved by approx. 5 -7 %.

Battery test-review 18650 comparator