Battery lost capacity

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
518
129
Surrey
#41
From 50cycles I asked if they could supply a replacement battery....

"HI There

I just tried calling but the number supplied seemed to be incorrect.

Unfortunately we are currently unable to supply replacement batteries as we no longer sell Kalkhoff bikes and are only dealing with them for warranty parts on bikes we have recently sold.

I have attached a link below to their dealer search facility on their website so you can use this to find your closest current Kalkhoff stockist who should be able to supply or order one in for you."

News to me. Thought they were main supplier of kalkoffs?
In 2011 I bought an Oxygen Emate City from 50 cycles in Richmond. Just within the two year warranty period I had a motor problem and contacted 50 cycles. They told me they had stopped selling Oxygen bikes and were unable to help me.

I contacted Andrew direct who owned Oxygen at the time who could not have been more helpful and sent me a replacement motor wheel that I fitted myself.

Needless to say I have not bought another bike from 50 cycles.
 

J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#42
Sending me (BGA) a courier to collect battery and charger and then courier it back. Nice bloke. £3?? forgot the exact amount but as they are putting in Panasonic batteries and the price is better than anything else I have seen it looks a good deal. Will just have to make sure I use it all year round. Keep my eyes open for fallen trees!!
 

Andy-Mat

Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
203
58
72
#43
No, not impossible. As just one example, people often do teardowns of things such as battery packs, so a little bit of simple research can often let one find out what's been discovered, and even what circuitry/chips have been used in the design.




The 'shuffling' you speak of is only one method of balancing, and from what I can gather, is not commonly implemented.
If the balancing is done by simple discharging of cell groups that have quickly reached their max voltage, then you could still have a design that needs the power supply to either provide a trickle charge, or even kick back in now and again during the balancing phase.




A very vague quote, with no citation/reference source so of questionable validity right from the start! however it (and other text on the matter) seems to be suggesting that for lower voltage packs in things such as drills, they often don't bother with balancing, because if you initially use matched cells, the battery pack will generally last long enough to outlive the warranty period!

But also - "packs above 24v should have balancing'. There we are then. The majority of ebike battery packs are 36/48v ! so they need balancing !!
The link was also shown!!! Please check it out! If you cannot find it, askme and I will post it again for you!

I did not snatch it from thin air!!

Regards and have a great day

Andy
 

GLJoe

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 21, 2017
379
34
UK
#44
The link was also shown!!! Please check it out! If you cannot find it, askme and I will post it again for you!

I did not snatch it from thin air!!

Regards and have a great day

Andy
I could not find the link to the quote. Please post it.
(note - not the link to the Battery University web page - the link to the ACTUAL original article).
 

J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#45
Expecting battery back this Monday. Water ingress caused damage to batteries. Not sure how as the box looks pretty well sealed.
Price was £375 all in. Seems reasonable as will be getting better batteries. Couldn't even find a 17.5 amp battery on internet.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#49
Looks like two of them suffered a very bad internal thermal issue, the other cells should be good for torch use or other use.

Which Panasonic cells are they ?
 

J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#50
Looks like two of them suffered a very bad internal thermal issue, the other cells should be good for torch use or other use.

Which Panasonic cells are they ?
No idea, he did tell me but I don't recall. I assume he isn't sending them to me. I haven't got that many torches! Hopefully he will find a use for them.
 

J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#51
Battery arrived. I'm worried
First when I checked it, it was fully charged but when I held in the button it went to 5 then to two. When I rung jimmy up he said there was nothing wrong with it explaining why.....blah blah blah...not sure what he was on about. Either way took it out 7.5 miles 4 bars down (out of 10). Seemed very high. It was down one bar after only .9 miles. Am I worrying over nothing?
Tomorrow I will run it to zero but not to full discharge as in dead battery?? then recharge it. Alas I am away early Wednesday and not back till late Sunday night needing it Monday very early. At least 20 miles not sure I will risk it. Of course I may get a good distance tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
 
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J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#52
Looks like two of them suffered a very bad internal thermal issue, the other cells should be good for torch use or other use.

Which Panasonic cells are they ?
Panasonic b cells mean anything to you? The jpg he sent me was titled pana b cells
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#53
The old ones are 18650B a so-so 4.9/5a cell of 3400mah.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#54
Battery arrived. I'm worried
First when I checked it, it was fully charged but when I held in the button it went to 5 then to two. When I rung jimmy up he said there was nothing wrong with it explaining why.....blah blah blah...not sure what he was on about. Either way took it out 7.5 miles 4 bars down (out of 10). Seemed very high. It was down one bar after only .9 miles. Am I worrying over nothing?
Tomorrow I will run it to zero but not to full discharge as in dead battery?? then recharge it. Alas I am away early Wednesday and not back till late Sunday night needing it Monday very early. At least 20 miles not sure I will risk it. Of course I may get a good distance tomorrow.
Any thoughts?
Give it 3 or 4 charge cycles then it see how it is behaving, relying on leds as a reliable guage can be a bit fickle, Best way is to use a meter to check voltage or wire in a cheap £2 volt meter as a gauge.
Jimmy will have used Panasonic GA cells most likely they are 3450mah with a 10a rating, a very good cell.
If going away for a few days don't leave it fully charged as cells don't like to be left sitting like that, charge it to about 38.5 - 39v and then put on charge as soon as you get back.
 

J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#56
I haven't got a volt meter nor have I any idea how to use one. Enlighten me!
 
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J.B.

Pedelecer
May 23, 2016
55
1
Lincolnshire
#57
PS forgot to mention bike feels better. Assistance seems to kick in quicker. Definitely a better feel to the bike.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#58
as in run it to zero on the display? Or run the battery till it ceases to supply power?
Running a battery to lvc will not do harm, lvc is when the battery cuts out, A 36v one will typically be a bout 33/34v.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#59
I haven't got a volt meter nor have I any idea how to use one. Enlighten me!
Ebay about 5 -6 quid. Get one and we will tell you how to use it, they are dead simple. You will be able to know the battery voltage at any time during charging and after a ride.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
6,833
344
55
West Sx RH
#60
PS forgot to mention bike feels better. Assistance seems to kick in quicker. Definitely a better feel to the bike.
The GA cells used are far superior and will suffer less voltage sag, voltage rate will hold it self higher when a load is asked. Your battery has a lot more pep to it.
 

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