Battery performance/memory - new Kalkhoff

[countarthur]

I have a new Kalkhoff integrale and have a question regarding battery performance. On purchase the battery was fully charged to 100% and showed a potential mileage on eco (basic) setting at 111 miles. This is as per brochure and spec. Since the initial charge I have charged it a number of times and have now completed about 150 miles (using all power settings). I've notice that the capacity at 100% no longer shows 111 miles and is showing between 84-94 miles. Generally a decreasing pattern. This is a brand new bike and battery. I'm in contact with the retailer but wonder if this forum has any knowledge of such issues or patterns in battery life. The ride and bike itself performs very well.

 

[electrickery]

I'm not sure but you say you have charged several times in 150 miles . It is recommended by some manufactures to do a complete discharge of l-ion batteries when new to calibrate them.Maybe the fact you haven't done this is giving a false calibration .Try an almost complete discharge and then full charge and see if that changes anything. It doesn't sound anything to worry about lithium batteries are generally pretty reliable.

 

[countarthur]

I'm not sure but you say you have charged several times in 150 miles . It is recommended by some manufactures to do a complete discharge of l-ion batteries when new to calibrate them.Maybe the fact you haven't done this is giving a false calibration .Try an almost complete discharge and then full charge and see if that changes anything. It doesn't sound anything to worry about lithium batteries are generally pretty reliable.

Thanks for that, I omitted to say that I did a complete discharge initially as recommended by shop to ensure memory and after further issues with the battery was advised to carry out a further full discharge in an attempt to reset battery. Pattern still persisted. Today I've ridden 15 miles (very hilly terrain) and battery has gone from full charge to 64% - I guess thats normal though. I think my battery does have an issue and am confident that supplier will resolve. The reason for my initial post was to see if others had experienced similar issues so I appreciate your feedback. Thank you.

As an aside - as a new electric bike owner (as is my wife) I'm finding it just a great experience. Out and about in the fresh air and allowing motor to kick in on a hill is just a joy

 

[Tomtomato]

On purchase the battery was fully charged to 100% and showed a potential mileage on eco (basic) setting at 111 miles

I am assuming the 111 miles was the best scenario, and quite optimistic too. With my 17Ah battery, I managed to achieve about 95-100 miles, but with some serious pedaling too.

Maybe the battery management system is just recalibrating the maximum distance based on actual distance done, and voltage measured. If so, the fully charged mileage displayed should stabilize after a few rides/charges.

 

[countarthur]

I am assuming the 111 miles was the best scenario, and quite optimistic too. With my 17Ah battery, I managed to achieve about 95-100 miles, but with some serious pedaling too.

Maybe the battery management system is just recalibrating the maximum distance based on actual distance done, and voltage measured. If so, the fully charged mileage displayed should stabilize after a few rides/charges.

Of course the 111 miles is what the battery displayed fully charged before much use, I guess thats probably achievable if you weigh 8 stone - who knows? I've been keeping a record of data re performance against distance and charge and have shared this with supplier. I'll post the eventual outcome - like you I try and do some serious pedaling but nowhere near the 95 mile distance although the area I cycle is very hilly. Thanks for your feedback I'll keep this thread updated with outcome.

 

[Jonah]

As I think has been suggested, the remaining distance figure is supposed to be recalculated based on the previous 'x' miles (not sure on the value of x). If you have just cycled up a hill, the figure will go down. If you freewheel down a long descent, the figure will go up.

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_make_batteries_more_reliable_and_longer_lasting_1

Memory effect does not concern modern Li-ion. I quote from the above:

"Lithium-ion enters service at peak capacity and starts its decline with use and aging, albeit very slowly. "

 

[countarthur]

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_make_batteries_more_reliable_and_longer_lasting_1

Memory effect does not concern modern Li-ion. I quote from the above:

"Lithium-ion enters service at peak capacity and starts its decline with use and aging, albeit very slowly. "

Apologies - I used the term 'memory' in my initial post and the word used in my handbook was to 'perform a learning cycle" of battery from discharge to full.
Extracts from guide:

QUOTE:
First charge
Attach the charger to the battery, using either the floor cradle or socket on the battery, then plug the charger into the mains supply and switch on. The red LEDs on the side of the battery will flash in turn and when all lights have gone out the battery is charged and you can disconnect the charger. After this first charge, do not recharge until the battery is empty. This first charge / discharge cycle is called the ‘learning cycle’. It conditions the battery for a long, healthy life. UNQUOTE

QUOTE- No memory effect
The cells used in Kalkhoff batteries don’t suffer from the socalled “memory effect” that requires full discharge before each recharge. This was characteristic of older battery types. The battery on your Kalkhoff can be charged whenever needed, just like your mobile phone’s battery. UNQUOTE

 

[RobF]

The battery range display does calculate from the last few miles, so it is all but useless.

I managed to get mine to show 100+ miles on a part-used 400wh battery on a near 10 mile stretch of the C2C path which is mostly a gentle decline.

If those unusually favourable conditions continued for 100+ miles, the battery would last that long, but of course those conditions don't last.

You are the best judge of battery range after you get to know the topography and distance of your routes, and your use of the assistance levels.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I don't believe it has anything to do with the battery. I think it is just calibrating the display so that it knows where max and min voltage are on that particular pack. I am probably wrong but until I did a full discharge my LCD battery monitor showed nonsense and my new LCD is doing exactly the same thing with my old battery.

 

[Phil1701]

I too have the Kalkhoff Integrale 8 and have also noticed that the predicted battery range fluctuates both up and down. After more experience it seems that either the BMS or the bike controller has a degree of 'intelligence' and adjusts the range predictions based on previous use. I did several really hilly rides recently in Devon & Cornwall and the range on Power mode for example was around 35 miles. However, after a ride or two back home on flatter terrain the range on Power was back up to 60 ish miles and 110 on Eco.

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