Battery switch recommendation anyone?

frank9755

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May 19, 2007
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I'd like to fit a switch between my battery and controller. At the moment it there is a connector which I need to pull apart to switch it off. A simple switch would be handier. Obviously needs to be waterproof, able to cope with up to 20A at 36V, and not too big. It could be key operated or just a button/rocker - not too fussy.

What do others use?
 

johnp

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Dec 14, 2006
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Hi Frank.
I to am looking for a switch for the same thing ,I have just found a key switch that will have to be fitted in the bag or battery box,I will let you know how I get on.


JOHN
 

frank9755

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May 19, 2007
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Hi Frank.
I to am looking for a switch for the same thing ,I have just found a key switch that will have to be fitted in the bag or battery box,I will let you know how I get on.
JOHN
Thanks John - Inside bag is ok for me actually; which is the one you found?
 

john

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Nov 1, 2007
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I use a fairly bug toggle switch I had lying around. Not bothered to waterproof it. I've not found a need to waterproof high current connectors (anderson) or switch so far so long as they are resistant to corrosion.
 

frank9755

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Thanks John (another John on this thread!)
How do I work out if a switch will be up to the current / voltage demands? Maplin and RS rarely seem to make this explicit and, not being an electronics expert, I like to be sure before using something.
 

alsmith

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Feb 15, 2008
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Thanks John (another John on this thread!)
How do I work out if a switch will be up to the current / voltage demands? Maplin and RS rarely seem to make this explicit and, not being an electronics expert, I like to be sure before using something.
Same question with cabling, but it depends on your battery type, voltage, and peak current. An closely enclosed cable can carry less current than an unenclosed one so wiring layouts matter for cabling.

It depends on your set up- and if you have the figures available-
but power = volts x amps so a 13 amp 240V is 3120 Watts.
If your bike is 36 Volts this is 3120/36 = 86 Amps.

Looking at the replacement LiFePO4 batteries from ebay a 36V 20Ah one specs quoted of 20 Amp cont, 40 Amp Burst, BMS cutoff 60 Amp. So a 13 Amp mains switch should be sufficient and fairly easily obtained.

A 10 Amp one should be enough as it comes in 10% above the abovecut off current but 13A will be more common.

So it depends on your battery type- voltage and peak current but a 13A mains or better should be OK for .most- but check your battery management system peak and cut off currents.

Bear in mind that a normal switch will only work on one cable so a double pole which works on both cables would be worth considering. Look in yellow pages for electrical factors for other supplier choices as well as Maplin and RS.
 
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frank9755

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Thanks, but I understand that. My question was how to identify a suitable switch, as they rarely seem to have current or voltage ratings. I was hoping someone might have used one they could recommend!
 

alsmith

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Feb 15, 2008
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Thanks, but I understand that. My question was how to identify a suitable switch, as they rarely seem to have current or voltage ratings. I was hoping someone might have used one they could recommend!
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding but switch current ratings are in the catalogue, choose a 240V 13A if your battery falls within the earlier post details. Or powacycle uses a key switch- buy one of those as a spare part from them? Personally I'd get one from Maplin
 

Tiberius

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Nov 9, 2007
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Beware the difference between AC and DC

Hi Frank,

You have to be careful here. The rating on mains switches is for AC; the amount they can safely switch at DC is considerably less - it's to do with the way the arcs behave when the contacts open. If you do find a switch with the full details published you may well find that its rated something like 240 V, 20 A AC but 28 V, 5 A DC.

If you are switching DC, look at automotive type suppliers, not mains electrical ones.

With e-bikes there are a few further things to consider.

Are you actually switching the full current when you open the switch? In most cases, the switch will be opened while the throttle is closed, so there is no motor current to deal with. The exception of course is when you need it as an emergency stop because the throttle is stuck open. In that case you may not be worried about whether the switch survives; you just need to know that it will open once and not weld the contacts together instead.

Depending on the controller, there is usually a large "inrush" current when the switch closes. This is a short pulse of current to charge the capacitors in the controller, even with the throttle closed. The peak current can be very high, and can damage a switch, welding the contacts together, for instance.

One way round this is fit a bleed resistor across the switch to keep the caps charged, but that defeats one of the purposes of the switch. A better way is a special switch with two sets of contacts, one closing before the other to connect the bleed resistor.

What I'm saying is don't take a switch designed for a different purpose and press it into service. Unless you can get the right switch, and know its the right switch, you are better off using a connector instead.

HTH,

Nick
 

Fecn

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Sep 28, 2008
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Just to add to what Nick said there. I personally used a 250V, 30A rated Neutrik Speakon connector for my custom battery pack. The connector can be rotated by 15 degrees without being unplugged to achieve an 'off' position and when turned it clicks and locks to the 'on' state.



IMO these are the best connectors in the world ever. No exposed contacts, designed for anything up to mains voltages and massive currents for DC uses. I have wired 5 of these sockets throughout my van as the standard cigarette lighter plugs are pathetic when you're running inverters/laptops etc.
 

frank9755

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May 19, 2007
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Thanks guys!

Nick, the effect that you describe - that inrush of current on connection - is exactly why I wanted to fit a switch, as I tend to get sparks when I join my connectors, which doesn't feel quite right. The key switch on the Wisper didn't have such an obviously abrupt current surge.

I like the look of that Neutrik one!

Frank
 

john

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Nov 1, 2007
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Thanks guys!

Nick, the effect that you describe - that inrush of current on connection - is exactly why I wanted to fit a switch, as I tend to get sparks when I join my connectors, which doesn't feel quite right. The key switch on the Wisper didn't have such an obviously abrupt current surge.

I like the look of that Neutrik one!

Frank
Nick is right about the spark you get due to the controller capacitors charging up. That is what will kill the switch if it is not up to the job, the rated current and voltage won't really come into it. My approach was just to try one which looked up to the job. The one that came with my battery wasn't (it melted).

The Maplin 10A toggle switches look similar to mine, using both poles of a dual pole to share the load.
 

Tiberius

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Nov 9, 2007
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Nick, the effect that you describe - that inrush of current on connection - is exactly why I wanted to fit a switch, as I tend to get sparks when I join my connectors, which doesn't feel quite right. The key switch on the Wisper didn't have such an obviously abrupt current surge.
Ah, but what's going on inside the switch.

Nick
 

Tiberius

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Nov 9, 2007
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The switch on my powabyke looks no different to a mains one either. I doubt current surge will be an issue when switching on- unless you've got the throttle fully open to make a quich getaway.
The switch on current surge is nothing to do with the throttle or the motor current. Its to charge up the capacitors in the controller.

Nick
 

rog_london

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Jan 3, 2009
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DC switches, ancient mains supplies, and e-bikes.

The switch on current surge is nothing to do with the throttle or the motor current. Its to charge up the capacitors in the controller.

Nick
Provided the switch closes fast, i.e. with no contact bounce, there ought to be no spark at all due to inrush current. Even inrush current is not instantaneous, there is a rise time (of a few microseconds, probably) from zero. Where switches fail in a DC switching situation is where they open while under load, or don't close cleanly.

In my (and Flecc's!) childhood DC mains were still common in this country - quite large parts of Manchester, for example still had 220V DC mains well into the 1950s. You never saw modern rocker style light switches - they were invariably heavy porcelain affairs with hefty springs and a distinct click when operated. The way they generally worked was that you had a u-shaped moving copper and brass contact which, when 'on', sat between two sprung brass and copper clips through which the current flowed. When you switched off, that moving contact made rapid progress over a distance of some half an inch, so giving approximately one inch total of open air to break the arc, and there was also a pocket in the porcelain to make the path even more indirect. Serious technology, therefore, developed over the previous 50 years when DC supplies were the norm, though now entirely abandoned in the cause of economy and aesthetics.

A modern rocker switch would never turn off on a DC supply. The contact gap can be as little as one eighth of an inch, and on a 220V DC supply an ordinary 100 watt bulb would keep a healthy arc burning across that indefinitely - or at least until well after you had a fire on your hands.

Getting back to what you should be looking for in an e-bike situation....

Your switch can be rated somewhat below the maximum load you expect to pass through it. This is because the average load will be much lower than that, and that's probably the most important consideration. It's very rule-of-thumb even so - if your average load is 10 amps for long periods peaking at 30 amps, I'd go for a switch rated at 15-20 amps, because it feels right to me instinctively and also feels to be conservative at that rating. You should have a switch with a solid click action so that you know the contacts close rapidly. You can get a feel for whether it's OK or not if you connect it all up and then close it in a darkened room and look for any sort of spark showing through at the point of closure - if you see any light at all, there is contact bounce and although the switch will probably be OK for a while, ultimately it may fail, or the contacts may get burned and it will get hot in use, or they may weld together and it won't turn off. Automotive switches are usually designed to have a wiping contact action so that they self-clean any local burn spots in use, and there is no bounce.

None of this is much use to you when you're buying 'off the page' because you have to do that, get it home, and try it out, if necessary discarding your purchase and trying again. Once you have your setup operational, do check often after riding for any significant rise in temperature of your switch - this would indicate contacts oxidizing or getting pitted and you should know of impending failure in good time.

You probably would never get an ideal switch - an old-fashioned 15 amp DC mains rated switch probably weighs about a pound and would be some three inches across. Obviously you don't need a 220V rating - you would probably need around 50 volts. Also, you can forget about switching under full load very often - the rating of a DC switch is almost always 'resistive' and when you have electronics in circuit and you break the supply under load you can get some pretty amazing transient voltages. You would also stand a significant chance of damaging battery control electronics and your motor controller too.

I'm fairly sure that the keyswitches fitted into the battery circuits by e-bike manufacturers are definitely not intended to switch under load. I think it would be very foolhardy to have the throttle wide open on the Wisper going up hill and reach down and turn off the switch on the battery, for example. If the controller and the battery electronics both died at that point I would not be at all surprised.

Personally I like Flecc's idea of a heavy duty connector, and get away from a switch entirely. You can very easily cause yourself a lot of grief.

Rog.