BH e-Motion Wins e-Vehicle Challenge

[flecc]

The BH E-motion has won a challenge competition against 14 other makes competing at the Monaco F1 circuit.

Story here

UK agents are Onbike
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[eddieo]

I like the look of these bikes and if I was in the market for a Panasonic bike I would have a serious look at them.

But while the result is great for them, surely the result is so dependent on the fitness and quality of the rider, its more or less meaningless as an E bike comparison?

Just had a look on link...blimey they are light! 17 kg Nice.....

 

[flecc]

I like the look of these bikes and if I was in the market for a Panasonic bike I would have a serious look at these.

But while the result is great for them, surely the result is so dependent on the fitness and quality of the rider, its more or less meaningless as an E bike comparison?

A point I've often made Eddie, in competitive riding comparison is impossible. However, in this case and reading between the lines, I think it was being judged on a number of factors including what you like, the look of the bike, not just a course run.

They certainly have attractive looks, and I'm glad BH have been enterprising enough to produce really sporting variants in various types and costs. I'd like to see what they'd do with a design based on the "S" sport motor.
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[Tiberius]

I looked at this when it happened, and I have to agree with you both that it wasn't really a test of the bike. With a relatively flat course and "professional" riders it never really set out to be a test of the bikes electro-motive capabilities.

By contrast, the Exmoor 100 Mile Challenge will not suffer this problem.

By choosing a hilly course, it is made into a test of the bike. The rider's skill of course is important, but his athletic ability less so.

</shameless plug>

Nick

 

[flecc]

comparison?

Just had a look on link...blimey they are light! 17 kg Nice.....

Even 16.5 kilos for the drop handlebar version. There's some unpowered bikes that weigh that!

That's why I'd like to see an S version with the same ultra light carbon spec from them, I think it would go like greased lightning.
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[Bigbee]

just a thought, the market theyre aiming for is that they;ll be ridden by slim young blokes unlike me,would they want the assitance?

 

[flecc]

just a thought, the market theyre aiming for is that they;ll be ridden by slim young blokes unlike me,would they want the assitance?

Maybe older wannabees are the market they are aiming for. If my area is anything to go by, there are plenty of very mature sporting riders who could be interested. I often see groups of typical club type riders in their 40s and 50s with drop handlebar sports bikes, and I see lots of evidence of how tough they find some of the climbs.

There's also been quite few very fit younger riders who've bought into the Cytronex concept, so there are younger customers for sporting e-bikes.

National differences come into it though, BH are a Spanish bicycle company and the Spanish could well take a different view on things like this.
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[rog_london]

Maybe older wannabees are the market they are aiming for. If my area is anything to go by, there are plenty of very mature sporting riders who could be interested. I often see groups of typical club type riders in their 40s and 50s with drop handlebar sports bikes, and I see lots of evidence of how tough they find some of the climbs.


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....and as we've said before, if they were sporting types in their younger days there's a fair chance the joints will be suffering from the excess wear and tear. You can work up your muscle power and/or lose excess weight at almost any age, but knackered knees don't improve with being pushed.

I do think that drop-bar Sport Deluxe is attractive - but a bit frightening, as if you were not careful you might end up feeling that YOU were inferior to the bike. Definitely a minority market within a minority, I'd say!

No such problem with the Wisper - funny how the psychology of different bikes can be so diverse, isn't it?

Rog.

 

[eddieo]

Even 16.5 kilos for the drop handlebar version. There's some unpowered bikes that weigh that!

That's why I'd like to see an S version with the same ultra light carbon spec from them, I think it would go like greased lightning.
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Mmmm.......what do you think the chance is of an S version then? would you be able to spec it with straight handle bars?

This is getting near my ideal bike for motorhoming. I have always thought a bigger battery but the Panasonic are reasonably light and priced so carrying a spare is practical?. So all that is missing is the throttle. This bike would be OK to get home on without power I suppose.

Just noticed no reviews as yet.........

 

[flecc]

Mmmm.......what do you think the chance is of an S version then? would you be able to spec it with straight handle bars?

This is getting near my ideal bike for motorhoming. I have always thought a bigger battery but the Panasonic are reasonably light and priced so carrying a spare is practical?. So all that is missing is the throttle. This bike would be OK to get home on without power I suppose.

Just noticed no reviews as yet.........

The S models from BikeTech and Kalkhoff are specced with normal bars, so straight bars are no problem. Whether BH would consider making an S model is a moot point, the e-bike market in Spain is very undeveloped, less so than any other of the original 12 EU countries.

Bikes with these motor systems are easy to pedal without power as I know from my years of 22 kg Lafree ownership, so these much lighter models would not be a problem. Being so light extends the range, which even on the 26 kilo Kalkhoff models can be over 50 miles, and these ranges are possible since riding without power when the going is easy is a viable option. Some Lafree owners have happily ridden them as normal bikes with battery off for days at a time when necessary, and a 17 kilo BH with battery off would be under 15 kilos of course

The 10 Ah battery is only about 2.2 kilos, and there's an 8 Ah option even more appropriate for carrying as a spare.
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[Phil [OnBike]]

Hi Flecc and all,

The E-motion Sport models attract attention across the board because of their looks and weight, but do tend to attract the less able riders who used to or still do ride road bikes - some still in cycle clubs etc.

Their weight does make them viable to ride without assistance and yes, the 8Ah battery will give you 20% less range over the 10Ah, but is slightly lighter, so an ideal backup battery.
I always carry a second 10Ah battery with me when out for a long days ride on my City Deluxe - a battery fits perfectly into one side of my pannier.

I did post an interview we did with an E-motion Sport Deluxe customer who's very pleased with it. He had always been a true road biker, but has aged and doesn't want to give up his long runs and likes to keep up with boys still

It's at the bottom of this post HERE if anyone wishes to read about his thoughts.


The full E-motion Monaco story can be read HERE too if anyone's interested.

If anybody has any questions, please feel free to contact me

Cheers

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Just noticed this:

BH Bikes - News about BH Bikes - BH Teams

It says that the top level of assistance is 150%. Doesn't this equate to the Pro Connect S?

If so, shouldn't more be made of it? Or have I made a mistake?

 

[flecc]

Somebody remarked this 1.5 times article once before, but I believe its just a mistake. Panasonic make these standard derailleur units for the BikeTech Flyer basic models as well and they are at 1.3 times.

I'm sure it's not the S unit which does have 1.5 times high power mode. As you say, that would be featured as a selling point and the bike prices would be very much higher.
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[themutiny]

I have seen many posts about this particular e-motion bike, with all and sundry marvelling at it's weight (or lack of)

Whilst I have no doubt that it is a fine machine, it still looks very much like an e-bike to me with a(presumably) oversize frame to accommodate the battery behind the seatpost. It is also the panasonic system which is not a panacea for some - the issue of reduced assistance at higher cadences would certainly not suit me.

I don't wish to be pedantic, but for another £55 you can buy a hub e-bike that weighs 10% less, looks like a 'real' bike, can be converted to a 'real' bike in 2mins flat, the batteries are less than half the price, charge in less than a 3rd of the time, has a normal spoke complement, does not penalise high cadences, is an excellent hill climber, faultless build quality, excellent aftersales, british assembled, handbuilt frame etc etc

Sorry to evangelise, but in this category of bike, I think the Cytronex Cannondale Synapse is THE bike. I liked them so much I bought two.

I'm 47 and smoke 30 a day, so I doubt I qualify as either a young or fit rider, although of course this is a relative term!

Will there be any of these e-motion units on the forthcoming 100 mile challenge?

 

[flecc]

I think the Cytronex Cannondale Synapse is THE bike. I liked them so much I bought two.

I think they are a different market though, despite the sporting appearances of both. The Cytronex bikes, both last years and this, seem to me to suit the committed cyclist, very much those who would equally ride unpowered bikes. I admire their design, but they aren't for everyone, any more than the Panasonic bikes are.

The e-motion models will be more likely to appeal to those who really are more suited to an e-bike with the Panasonic user-friendliness, often those who won't want to ride at high cadences anyway, but who still want this sort of style. There's the little matter of range too, the Panasonic being very much more capable in that respect.

This is what Cytronex owner matt-derby said on the comparison in a recent post:

I'll post a proper review after 6 weeks on my new Cytronex bike. I've received it last Wednesday and have covered 92.7 miles so far.. At the moment I'd say they are very different beasts. I've ridden the Emotion sport and ProConnect to compare.

Are there to be Cytronex models on the Ching Challenge?
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[themutiny]

Whilst they are clearly very different in tems of approach, I would still suggest that their target market is similar. I also don't see that the range is wildly different. It's generally accepted that 20 miles can be had from a Cytronex. If you use the boost sparingly which is not entirely dissimilar to the low mode on a Panasonic, then that range can be extended significantly. My wife, who is not a particularly strong cyclist achieved 28 miles, and the recharge took 30 mins, which would indicate that she would have achieved significant mileage. Obviously she was only using the boost sparingly, but the point is that the bike is such a pleasure to ride unassisted, that it does lend itself to this type of use.

I recall Chris evangelising in a similar manner about the original Trek and being at great pains to point out that he wasn't super fit etc, and the scepticism that ensued.

As for the 100 mile challenge, yes it is my intention to take part. There are a couple of issues that might yet prevent me from doing so, but I sincerely hope I can overcome them.

 

[flecc]

I'm sure they are more different than you think, and matt-derby's comment highlights that. Equally Aldby who has owned numerous e-bikes sees the Panasonic motored bikes and Cytronex very differently. He disposed of his Cytronex after a short while, although admiring what it was, it just wasn't for him. By contrast he is, like me, a firm fan of the Panasonic bikes and now has a Pro Connect S in addition to his Agattu.

The difference between the systems is so great that disagreements on them often crop up, the dislike for each concept shown on both sides. Fortunately for Panasonic, the great majority of e-bikers have always favoured theirs, the minority of committed cyclists interested in e-power tending the other way. In saying they are aimed at the same market, I think you are discounting the influence of style, many who are more e-bikers than committed cyclists still prefer to mimic the various normal bikes styles, whether that be sport bike, mountain bike or any other.

I certainly don't agree on the range, most have reported around 20 miles or just over on the Cytronex. Even the very much heavier Agattu with standard gearing routinely gives an easy going 35 miles even to this over 70 year old in a hilly area and is capable of over 50 miles in my hands if I put in the same sort of cycling effort that the Cytronex owner does. Another Agattu owning member recently did a 61 mile run and still had some charge in the battery.

There's no magic in this of course, the motors having very similar efficiencies while the Panasonic battery is well over double the capacity of the Cytronex one, hence the range differences.

P.S. Some of Chris-bikes subsequent comments on runs done showed we were right to be sceptical, well over 40 miles in hilly conditions on that battery isn't done by any other than a very fit rider.
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[Barnowl]

My wife, who is not a particularly strong cyclist achieved 28 miles, and the recharge took 30 mins, which would indicate that she would have achieved significant mileage.

I'll say. I make that 84 miles, over similar terrain and with the stamina. Just think fit the 2nd battery and it could be 168 miles. Sorry I'm getting a bit carried away I know but the Cytronex Synapse with 2 batteries and chargers is a very interesting proposition if you know what I mean.