Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

What a hateful little man you are.

So you think that the reason we weren’t allowed to leave is because we have disabled people in this country? You nasty fool. Think what you are saying you vile, spiteful idiot.

Here are the facts.

https://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts

You disgust me.

Fingers, Fingers, Fingers, yet again you disappoint. Even when you might have a valid point , and might join adult discourse you fail.
As a parent of a chronically ill son, I can speak with some authority. It was unwise of flecc to issue that statistic, if only because it gave you ammunition.
However there is a welfare subculture in existence and it would be foolish to deny that. There are large numbers of people with genuinely life crippling illnesses and conditions,many living truly heroic lives ,and there are others whose aim in life is to take as much from the system as possible.
Fleccs major point was that the will to work was being eroded . In this he was not wrong. If even the chief negotiators empowered by your Government went to Brussels without doing their homework.

 

[Fingers]

Fingers, Fingers, Fingers, yet again you disappoint. Even when you might have a valid point , and might join adult discourse you fail.
As a parent of a chronically ill son, I can speak with some authority. It was unwise of flecc to issue that statistic, if only because it gave you ammunition.
However there is a welfare subculture in existence and it would be foolish to deny that. There are large numbers of people with genuinely life crippling illnesses and conditions,many living truly heroic lives ,and there are others whose aim in life is to take as much from the system as possible.
Fleccs major point was that the will to work was being eroded . In this he was not wrong. If even the chief negotiators empowered by your Government went to Brussels without doing their homework.

I’ll take no condescension from you either. You of all people should know better.

Do not conflate disability with laziness. It’s grotesque.

For shame.

 

[50Hertz]

What a hateful little man you are.

So you think that the reason we weren’t allowed to leave is because we have disabled people in this country? You nasty fool. Think what you are saying you vile, spiteful idiot.

Here are the facts.

https://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts

You disgust me.

flecc is correct. Why do you think we need foreign labour to fill vacancies in low paid, low skilled jobs whilst we simultaneously pay able bodied people to languish on the dole? The UK has a culture of certain areas of employment being “beneath” us.

The fact also exists that we have a greater percentage of our population claiming disability benefits by being registered disabled. I think there is a link between the first paragraph and this one.

 

[anotherkiwi]

We have 22% of the population registered disabled, Germany with it's infinitely more successful economy has 13% registered disabled.

.

We all know that the UK registers people as disabled to make its unemployment statistics look good, this practice has been widely documented. One could say that lack of education or training is in fact a disability.

6.6% French of working age were registered as disabled (get benefits) and 15 % were unable to work because of injury or health issues for more than 6 months (sick leave) in 2015.

 

[oyster]

As a parent of a chronically ill son, I can speak with some authority. It was unwise of flecc to issue that statistic, if only because it gave you ammunition.

And as someone very close to me found out - crippling illness can occur at any age. And render people unable to work. Advice from what should be reliable sources can end up denying ANY benefit of any sort (didn't apply for the right thing within a time limit) and being not classified in most statistics as anything other than apparently voluntarily not working.

(It didn't help that the diagnosis was achieved on her own without any help from doctors who had just looked and shaken their heads. Finally confirmed unanimously by a panel of about 16 doctors/consultants.)

Reaching retirement age was the sole way out.

 

[Danidl]

From the Guardian....

I would agree with Ms Leadsom... It would be "fantastic" , that is it is the stuff of fantasy. If senior ministers in Government are still believing this, despite the EU having said on a number of occasions that the WA agreement is closed, what hope have you?.


This option has been repeatedly ruled out by both the prime minister and EU leaders. However, Leadsom said she believed there was still hope that the EU could be persuaded to put a time limit on the Irish backstop arrangement that potentially binds the UK into a customs union indefinitely.

“What I think would be fantastic is if Angela Merkel would try to support a proper UK Brexit by agreeing to reopen the withdrawal agreement,” she told Sky News. “As the person with the responsibility to get the legislation through, if we could get the PM’s deal over the line because the EU have decided to support measures on the backstop, then that would be the best possible outcome.”

Likewise Mr Foxs assertion that a customs union would be the worst of all worlds ,and that if one is not at the table you are on the menu, begs the obvious question, why not sit at the table?.

 

[Fingers]

flecc is correct. Why do you think we need foreign labour to fill vacancies in low paid, low skilled jobs whilst we simultaneously pay able bodied people to languish on the dole? The UK has a culture of certain areas of employment being “beneath” us.

The fact also exists that we have a greater percentage of our population claiming disability benefits by being registered disabled. I think there is a link between the first paragraph and this one.

It’s a Tory myth. It’s a fantasy dreamed up to give the likes of yourself the ticket to be able to pour scorn on the working class.

Benefit cheating is a tiny, tiny percentage of the ever shrinking social welfare program. It shrinks because gullible folk fall for the Daily Mail narrative that ‘everyone is at it’. They’re not.

And as for low skilled jobs. Go into a pret, MacDonald’s, weatherspoons, Starbucks, clothing store. Do it today. You will find the amount of young uk people working in there now is astonishing compared to 3 years ago. I wonder why?

Don’t tell me our youngsters are lazy. It’s another fetish old folk are obsessed with. The same was said about you 50 years ago.

And as for the original point. Don’t compare people with disabilities to people who are lazy. It’s funny isn’t it. Scratch the surface and the real beliefs are there.

 

[Danidl]

I’ll take no condescension from you either. You of all people should know better.

Do not conflate disability with laziness. It’s grotesque.

For shame.

The fact I do know better gives me this authority to state the obvious.. I am not confusing anything here.
I will tell you a short story of three students of mine.,and showing the levels of quiet heroism that can accompany chronic illness. One case involved a student who would start the week perky and bright, then by Tuesday was looking distinctly peeky and a bit green. On Wednesday would come in wan and tired and then by Friday looking a bit green again. Despite this his attendance was fairly regular except for the late arrival on Wednesday, My role included discipline ,so I needed to question these latenesses. Of course it transpired he was in dialysis, and all night Tuesday and Saturday. One cannot sleep successfully in a dialysis ward. I am happy to say that when he graduated, I had him named Student of the Year, not because he was the academically the best but for his tenacity.
Another student was habitually late, and it transpired that he had to make his bedridden incontinent father breakfast and toilet before getting into college ..
Finally a third who also was cutting classes.. he "needed " a job, when I interviewed him ,he was wearing a fine leather jacket, designer boots and driving a car.... .
So I do know the difference.

 

[Fingers]

We all know that the UK registers people as disabled to make its unemployment statistics look good, this practice has been widely documented. One could say that lack of education or training is in fact a disability.

6.6% French of working age were registered as disabled (get benefits) and 15 % were unable to work because of injury or health issues for more than 6 months (sick leave) in 2015.

No we couldn’t say a lack of training is a disability you obnoxious fool.

 

[anotherkiwi]

No we couldn’t say a lack of training is a disability you obnoxious fool.

In fact quite a number of experts do say just that - but for you breitbart folk experts are fools. And congratulations! That is the first time in over 60 years anyone has treated me to "obnoxious" (I have already been called a fool many a time)

 

[Fingers]

The fact I do know better gives me this authority to state the obvious.. I am not confusing anything here.
I will tell you a short story of three students of mine.,and showing the levels of quiet heroism that can accompany chronic illness. One case involved a student who would start the week perky and bright, then by Tuesday was looking distinctly peeky and a bit green. On Wednesday would come in wan and tired and then by Friday looking a bit green again. Despite this his attendance was fairly regular except for the late arrival on Wednesday, My role included discipline ,so I needed to question these latenesses. Of course it transpired he was in dialysis, and all night Tuesday and Saturday. One cannot sleep successfully in a dialysis ward. I am happy to say that when he graduated, I had him named Student of the Year, not because he was the academically the best but for his tenacity.
Another student was habitually late, and it transpired that he had to make his bedridden incontinent father breakfast and toilet before getting into college ..
Finally a third who also was cutting classes.. he "needed " a job, when I interviewed him ,he was wearing a fine leather jacket, designer boots and driving a car.... .
So I do know the difference.

Well there we go then.

Case closed.

 

[flecc]

Here are the facts.

https://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts

I've already got the facts thanks, and looking behind the front line figures for the truth doesn't make me hateful, vile or disgusting, except in the eyes of the blinkered people like you.

The stark difference between ourselves and Germany is the proportion of the registered disabled who are severely disabled.

Just over three quarters of Germany's total disabled are severely disabled. Here it's well under a half, so its very clear that our proportion of registered minor disabilities is far higher. Some others have mentioned reasons for that since my post.

And it's not just Germany we compare very badly with in this respect, similar sized France has a much lower total of registered disabled.

And while I didn't mention it in my earlier post, we still have a huge black economy, something I'm very familiar with from over 17 years experience of supplying the construction industry.

Now one can ignore all this as you are obviously doing, but that makes you blind to the very real problems we will face alone in the world if we don't correct these issues.
.

 

[Danidl]

Well there we go then.

Case closed.

You obviously do not like to be confronted with facts.

 

[Fingers]

I've already got the facts thanks, and looking behind the front line figures for the truth doesn't make me hateful, vile or disgusting, except in the eyes of the blinkered people like you.

The stark difference between ourselves and Germany is the proportion of the registered disabled who are severely disabled.

Just over three quarters of Germany's total disabled are severely disabled. Here it's well under a half, so its very clear that our proportion of registered minor disabilities is far higher. Some others have mentioned reasons for that since my post.

And it's not just Germany we compare very badly with in this respect, similar sized France has a much lower total of registered disabled.

And while I didn't mention it in my earlier post, we still have a huge black economy, something I'm very familiar with from over 17 years experience of supplying the construction industry.

Now one can ignore all this as you are obviously doing, but that makes you blind to the very real problems we will face alone in the world if we don't correct these issues.
.

The black economy is largely made up of people from other countries. That's a completely different argument to saying we have too many people in this country who have a disability.

Our way of registering disability is different to France or Germany. Do not compare the 2. It's like saying Chad has more farmers per capita than here and we need to change.

It's stupid.

We have disabled people dying in this country because of your views.

You said something wrong and deplorable. Own it and apologise.

 

[50Hertz]

It’s a Tory myth. It’s a fantasy dreamed up to give the likes of yourself the ticket to be able to pour scorn on the working class.

Benefit cheating is a tiny, tiny percentage of the ever shrinking social welfare program. It shrinks because gullible folk fall for the Daily Mail narrative that ‘everyone is at it’. They’re not.

And as for low skilled jobs. Go into a pret, MacDonald’s, weatherspoons, Starbucks, clothing store. Do it today. You will find the amount of young uk people working in there now is astonishing compared to 3 years ago. I wonder why?

Don’t tell me our youngsters are lazy. It’s another fetish old folk are obsessed with. The same was said about you 50 years ago.

And as for the original point. Don’t compare people with disabilities to people who are lazy. It’s funny isn’t it. Scratch the surface and the real beliefs are there.

See #51842

 

[Fingers]

You obviously do not like to be confronted with facts.

Your little case study is irrelevant to me. For one I'm talking about my country. Not yours.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Your little case study is irrelevant to me. For one I'm talking about my country. Not yours.

What country would that be now?

 

[oldgroaner]

I’ll take no condescension from you either. You of all people should know better.

Do not conflate disability with laziness. It’s grotesque.

For shame.

Corny and false as usual you are a fraud

What a hateful little man you are.

So you think that the reason we weren’t allowed to leave is because we have disabled people in this country? You nasty fool. Think what you are saying you vile, spiteful idiot.

Here are the facts.

https://www.dlf.org.uk/content/key-facts

You disgust me.

My goodness" Think what you are saying you vile, spiteful idiot. " he is talking to himself again, but will he take his own advice?

 

[Zlatan]

I've already got the facts thanks, and looking behind the front line figures for the truth doesn't make me hateful, vile or disgusting, except in the eyes of the blinkered people like you.

The stark difference between ourselves and Germany is the proportion of the registered disabled who are severely disabled.

Just over three quarters of Germany's total disabled are severely disabled. Here it's well under a half, so its very clear that our proportion of registered minor disabilities is far higher. Some others have mentioned reasons for that since my post.

And it's not just Germany we compare very badly with in this respect, similar sized France has a much lower total of registered disabled.

And while I didn't mention it in my earlier post, we still have a huge black economy, something I'm very familiar with from over 17 years experience of supplying the construction industry.

Now one can ignore all this as you are obviously doing, but that makes you blind to the very real problems we will face alone in the world if we don't correct these issues.
.

I had 28 years in education/social care/civil service/health service. (Yes, in modern parlance it was a multidisciplinary effort)
I can never remember visiting anyone, working with any of public who I didnt think were worthy causes for either the attention or financial help they recieved. Quite the reverse, my over riding emotion was normally "poor buggers" and "there for grace of god".
Talking percentages is irrelevant. If 22% need help, well so be it.
Yes, we can all read about people taking advantage in DM, but the actual cost is miniscule. For every one there are hundreds on edge of survival.
Nothing flecc now says surprises me.Not sure wether its simply to knock UK or cause argument on here, or perhaps simply have a go at anything Fingers or myself say.
And AK's arguments actually back up Finger's opinion.
In fleccs social utopia women wouldnt have a vote and half of disabled would have their allowance stopped. That's a strange attitude for one so supportive of Corbyn.

 

[oldgroaner]

I've already got the facts thanks, and looking behind the front line figures for the truth doesn't make me hateful, vile or disgusting, except in the eyes of the blinkered people like you.

The stark difference between ourselves and Germany is the proportion of the registered disabled who are severely disabled.

Just over three quarters of Germany's total disabled are severely disabled. Here it's well under a half, so its very clear that our proportion of registered minor disabilities is far higher. Some others have mentioned reasons for that since my post.

And it's not just Germany we compare very badly with in this respect, similar sized France has a much lower total of registered disabled.

And while I didn't mention it in my earlier post, we still have a huge black economy, something I'm very familiar with from over 17 years experience of supplying the construction industry.

Now one can ignore all this as you are obviously doing, but that makes you blind to the very real problems we will face alone in the world if we don't correct these issues.
.

There is a strong rumour that numbers weren't helped by the Government disappearing many of the Unemployed who had health issues onto the disabled register too.