Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

Again - for some companies their profit margins are so wafer thin they have to have workers on zero contracts. Otherwise there would not be ANY business there AT ALL. Which do you want - NOTHING - or zero contracts? That is the actual choice in many cases.

You could argue and I will for the hell of it right now - that France's social problems ie how come they are on the streets demonstrating 24/7 for the last year (non-stop in some places) - is because they do not allow zero-hours - so people have no way of bettering their situation other than benefits - which is not a good motivating force.

Companies will set up here rather than France because of that - and people here get some small way to better their lives and do not take to the streets.

Go ahead - shoot it down but I think it might hold some water.

 

[flecc]

You dont know that at all Flecc. Corbyn was planning on negotiating another deal and then putiing that to a referendum.

We do know that. He'd have either got a new deal or much more likely settled on largely the same as May got, just as Boris has.

Then we know the outcome of deal versus remain in a referendum, since every poll from every source has shown a very clear lead for remain over leave for well over a year now. Even the most xenophic media had accepted that fact, which is why they were so opposed to a referendum.
.

 

[Zlatan]

We do know that. He'd have either got a new deal or much more likely settled on largely the same as May got, just as Boris has.

Then we know the outcome of deal versus remain in a referendum, since every poll from every source has shown a very clear lead for remain over leave for well over a year now. Even the most xenophic media had accepted that fact, which is why they were so opposed to a referendum.
.

Agreed on all that but what about getting deal past house (Tories would have done same as Labour did with May, ie vote everything down)
And same for refererendum. You are assuming not just a Corbyn government but a srong majprity for it aswell. Getting into realms of fantasynow flecc.

 

[flecc]

Companies will set up here rather than France because of that - and people here get some small way to better their lives and do not take to the streets.

Zero hours contracts are not allowed in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Poland and Spain.

And most of them don't follow France's street protest habits. Those are very much a new French tradition, initially derived from the overprotection of their farmers and tolerating their road blocking protests.

Companies are happy to set up in most of those countries instead of the UK these days, for example Tesla's new plant being built in Germany after rejecting the UK, PSA Vauxhalls new e-car production plant in Spain and Jaguar-Landrovers joint e-car and battery facility in Hungary.

Our politicians wanted us to be in the forefront of e-car development. Not going well is it, especially given the discontent from Nissan?
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[flecc]

Agreed on all that but what about getting deal past house (Tories would have done same as Labour did with May, ie vote everything down)
And same for refererendum. You are assuming not just a Corbyn government but a srong majprity for it aswell. Getting into realms of fantasynow flecc.

Make your mind up, your post assumed Corbyn in power, so I answered accordingly.

And anyway I don't agree with your assumption. We already know the great majority of all MPs are remainers which is why they blocked everything before. With the virtually certain prospect of a remain outcome from a new referendum they might well vote for one.
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[Zlatan]

Make your mind up, your post assumed Corbyn in power, so I answered accordingly.

And anyway I don't agree with your assumption. We already know the great majority of all MPs are remainers which is why they blocked everything before. With the virtually certain prospect of a remain outcome from a new referendum they might well vote for one.
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Might. And you are making massive assumptions with a remain win. And yes I assumed Corbyn just got in power, an almost realistic possibility. Him doing so with an 80 majority complete fantasy as is getting entire labour party to agree on anything as they would have to have stood anychance of getting anything through parliament. I didnt make premise of Corbyn getting power as a realistic alternative, only to point out the mess we would have been in had he done so. You made the massive leap of faith by giving him a working majority and a party in agreement. He would have had neither.
The party are now more split than ever. Looks now like Starmer might stand a chance, heralding a return to Blairism?
And one of Corbyn's main obstacles in his campaign was the uncertainty on the very things you are taking for granted post election. Nobody actually knew what was going to happen, well except for a chosen few.
You have to admit flecc "a new deal" followed by ref2 with a PM not campaigning for fpr either side in that ref is at best ambiguous, very drawn out and open to much intetpretation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, by a grown up.

But you voted for a man who was going to dwarf BJ's increased spending?
You cant argue a strategy from Boris is bad but vote for an extreme version of that same strategy. Well, I suppose you can.
But, you are agreeing with OJ. He was also against Boris's plans for miinimum wage, but you criticised him too.??? Barking mad.
Basically you are against anything Boris does or anything OJ says, which does lead to confusion on your part when OJ criticises Boris. It makes you look, well.... stupid.
You best bet would have been to agree with OJ's criticisms.,but you cant do that can you. Very odd.

You get stranger by the day
"
But you voted for a man who was going to dwarf BJ's increased spending?
You cant argue a strategy from Boris is bad but vote for an extreme version of that same strategy. Well, I suppose you can. "

I told you why I voted for Corbyn, but you voted for the very thing you now decry for those very policies?

 

[oldgroaner]

Only to deserving people.

Then go and find one,plenty in Tufton Street.

 

[Zlatan]

You get stranger by the day
"
But you voted for a man who was going to dwarf BJ's increased spending?
You cant argue a strategy from Boris is bad but vote for an extreme version of that same strategy. Well, I suppose you can. "

I told you why I voted for Corbyn, but you voted for the very thing you now decry for those very policies?

You have confused me even more. I dont disagree with either Corbyn's or BJ's proposed spending. Whereas you criticised BJ's but voted for a man proposing to spend around 8 times more. You then went on to criticise OJ for criticising exactly that you criticised. ie) BJ's spending. You are all over place OG.
And OG when you voted Corbyn you indirectly supported everything he proposed. You cant pick and chose what he decides to implement. He was proposing injecting billions upon billions, reducing working week to 4 days and implementing a £10/hr minimun wage. Having voted Corbyn it is then fairly stupid to grumble at BJ for suggesting an £8.27/hr minimum wage.
But grumble away, it merely makes you look more silly.

 

[oldgroaner]

You have confused me even more. I dont disagree with either Corbyn's or BJ's proposed spending. Whereas you criticised BJ's but voted for a man proposing to spend around 8 times more. You then went on to criticise OJ for criticising exactly that you criticised. ie) BJ's spending. You are all over place OG.
And OG when you voted Corbyn you indirectly supported everything he proposed. You cant pick and chose what he decides to implement. He was proposing injecting billions upon billions, reducing working week to 4 days and implementing a £10/hr minimun wage. Having voted Corbyn it is then fairly stupid to grumble at BJ for suggesting an £8.27/hr minimum wage.
But grumble away, it merely makes you look more silly.

Have you quite finished? my vote was on the understanding that Corbyn would be unable to make his plans work, and i stated as much, there is no inconsistency in my voting in the hope of a refrendum, whereas the notion that Boris will succeed is wishful thinking.
I'm not as you put it "all over the place at all"
I voted with one purpose only in mind which was for a referendum in the full expectation that Corbyn's plans other than that would fail.
And they would fail for the same reasons Boris's will
No economic spare capacity after Brexit.
After an initial optimistic period the rot will set in and there will be more austerity measures.

 

[Zlatan]

Have you quite finished? my vote was on the understanding that Corbyn would be unable to make his plans work, and i stated as much, there is no inconsistency in my voting in the hope of a refrendum, whereas the notion that Boris will succeed is wishful thinking.
I'm not as you put it "all over the place at all"
I voted with one purpose only in mind which was for a referendum in the full expectation that Corbyn's plans other than that would fail.
And they would fail for the same reasons Boris's will
No economic spare capacity after Brexit.
After an initial optimistic period the rot will set in and there will be more austerity measures.

That doesnt explain your unjustified criticism of OJ for actually agreeing with you. He didnt approve of BJ's increasing minimum wage either.
Your arguments are senseless.
You voted for Corbyn hoping none of his "pledges" could be met but expecting a referendum! He had to get a deal through EU and through parliament to get to even ask for a ref, which then would have needed to go through parliament. You didnt think that through did you.

You openly criticise anybody who voted for Boris but then admit you voted for Corbyn hoping he couldnt implement any of his pledges. That is rather stupid OG.
Stop asking folk why they voted Tory, you, ve now explained it perfectly yourself.

 

[oldgroaner]

That doesnt explain your unjustified criticism of OJ for actually agreeing with you. He didnt approve of BJ's increasing minimum wage either.
Your arguments are senseless.
You voted for Corbyn hoping none of his "pledges" could be met but expecting a referendum! He had to get a deal through EU and through parliament to get to even ask for a ref, which then would have needed to go through parliament. You didnt think that through did you.

You openly criticise anybody who voted for Boris but then admit you voted for Corbyn hoping he couldnt implement any of his pledges. That is rather stupid OG.
Stop asking folk why they voted Tory, you, ve now explained it perfectly yourself.

I really can’t be bothered to try and reason with you your mind is already made up,You live in a fantasy world of your own construction. I gave you my reasons and you still argue that they were not right if anybody is stupid it’s youYour imagination makes out that I hoped Corbin would fail.I never said that did I, I said I expected he would fail, an entirely different thing,but you like to make things out to suit your Agenda, changing that too I hoped he would fail.
For some reason you misinterpret Just about anything I post and substitute what your imagination wants it to be

 

[Danidl]

That doesnt explain your unjustified criticism of OJ for actually agreeing with you. He didnt approve of BJ's increasing minimum wage either.
Your arguments are senseless.
You voted for Corbyn hoping none of his "pledges" could be met but expecting a referendum! He had to get a deal through EU and through parliament to get to even ask for a ref, which then would have needed to go through parliament. You didnt think that through did you.

You openly criticise anybody who voted for Boris but then admit you voted for Corbyn hoping he couldnt implement any of his pledges. That is rather stupid OG.
Stop asking folk why they voted Tory, you, ve now explained it perfectly yourself.

Why are you trying to meditate OJs posts?. Is he incapable of misinterpreting for himself?.

 

[Zlatan]

Why are you trying to meditate OJs posts?. Is he incapable of misinterpreting for himself?.

No, OG's grumble of folk voting for Boris is widespread. He often asks why folk voted for him, questioning him over his response to OJ has led to admission on his part he voted forCorbyn hoping he wouldnt meet any of his pledges.
Besides, why are you trying to meditate (? your word, presumably mediate, but who knows) OG's posts. Isn't he capable misinterpreting them for himself?? Think the word is hypocrit.
Dohhh. Used to think you were quite clever. Blown that recently Danidl.

 

[Danidl]

No, OG's grumble of folk voting for Boris is widespread. He often asks why folk voted for him, questioning him over his response to OJ has led to admission on his part he voted forCorbyn hoping he wouldnt meet any of his pledges.
Besides, why are you trying to meditate (? your word, presumably mediate, but who knows) OG's posts. Isn't he capable misinterpreting them for himself?? Think the word is hypocrit.
Dohhh. Used to think you were quite clever. Blown that recently Danidl.

The fact you you don't agree with me, does not make me stupid. Nor does the fact that flecc got the wrong end of the stick regarding my posts on illiterates and did not see the forest for the trees, make me wrong. I may not be all that clever, but I know my own mind and stick to a point

 

[oldgroaner]

No, OG's grumble of folk voting for Boris is widespread. He often asks why folk voted for him, questioning him over his response to OJ has led to admission on his part he voted forCorbyn hoping he wouldnt meet any of his pledges.
Besides, why are you trying to meditate (? your word, presumably mediate, but who knows) OG's posts. Isn't he capable misinterpreting them for himself?? Think the word is hypocrit.
Dohhh. Used to think you were quite clever. Blown that recently Danidl.

You’re doing it again!

 

[Zlatan]

You’re doing it again!

Et tu Brutus...

 

[Zlatan]

The fact you you don't agree with me, does not make me stupid. Nor does the fact that flecc got the wrong end of the stick regarding my posts on illiterates and did not see the forest for the trees, make me wrong. I may not be all that clever, but I know my own mind and stick to a point

Dont underestimate yourself Danidl, you aren't stupid just not as clever as I first thought. There, s a massive spread of intelligence on forum, from OG upwards, please dont compete with him for the stupidest poster here, you are better than that. IMHO that is.

 

[flecc]

The fact you you don't agree with me, does not make me stupid. Nor does the fact that flecc got the wrong end of the stick regarding my posts on illiterates and did not see the forest for the trees, make me wrong. I may not be all that clever, but I know my own mind and stick to a point

No, I didn't get the wrong end of any stick. I fully understood what you posted, but that was apparently not what you meant.

Once again your inability to use English correctly let you down, failing to express what you meant. It's a problem in this thread that a few of us have suffered in discussion with you, sometimes appearing to make you appear foolish. That's a pity, since there are clear indications that you are a clever and able person.

I'm quite sure you do know what is in your own mind, but not being able to tell us that is a real problem.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

No, I didn't get the wrong end of any stick. I fully understood what you posted, but that was apparently not what you meant.

Once again your inability to use English correctly let you down, failing to express what you meant. It's a problem in this thread that a few of us have suffered in discussion with you, sometimes appearing to make appear foolish. That's a pity, since there are clear indications that you are a clever and able person.

I'm quite sure you do know what is in your own mind, but not being able to tell us what that is a real problem. In fact I have at times wondered if you are dyslexic?
.

He's not open to learning either. Tell him you don't need a full stop after an exclamation mark and he continues on regardless. Some people see change as an insult to their ego.