Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Mazda purposely limited its new EV to feel more like a gas car

Mazda not only limited the range of its first EV, the MX-30, it also took some of the fun out of it on purpose, too. The automaker said it tuned the electric motor's torque to feel less like an EV and more like a gasoline-powered car, according to Autocar. With 192 pound-feet of torque, the EV...

www.engadget.com

Interesting article. It claims Mazda have said long range EV are worse for environment than diesel???

 

[flecc]

Mazda purposely limited its new EV to feel more like a gas car

Mazda not only limited the range of its first EV, the MX-30, it also took some of the fun out of it on purpose, too. The automaker said it tuned the electric motor's torque to feel less like an EV and more like a gasoline-powered car, according to Autocar. With 192 pound-feet of torque, the EV...

www.engadget.com

Interesting article. It claims Mazda have said long range EV are worse for environment than diesel???

Sour grapes, yet another article claiming e-cars are less environmental, and nonsense once again. Mazda are Ford of course, and Ford have been notably unsuccessful with their e-car attempts and are way behind on the design of them.

They'd be saying the opposite if they were ahead of the curve.
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[Zlatan]

There will undoubtedly be E-camper vans anyway. The only reason for e-cars not towing is that, in the absence of a gearbox with multiple gears, they have to be designed for a given nominal load. A camper van can be designed for its typical load.
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With small camper vans already costing upto £85k I suspect addition of required batteries etc might push them into "out of reach" (or justification) for current owners.
I suspect the short term electrification is rather optimistic.
Is it proven an electric Campervan would actually be better for environment than current ones? (They tend to do low mileage) Batteries still dont come at zero impact on planet? Sat unused I, d guess a diesel camper has made a smaller impact.

 

[Zlatan]

Sour grapes, yet another article claiming e-cars are less environmental, and nonsense once again. Mazda are Ford of course, and Ford have been notably unsuccessful with their e-car attempts and are way behind on the design of them.

They'd be saying the opposite if they were ahead of the curve.
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I dont think Ford have any concern in Mazda, I believe they sold their part ownership a few years ago.
I wonder how many are actually ahead of the curve or catering to false beliefs? In another few years, it wouldnt surprise me to see folk saying "hang on a minute". We, ve jumped the gun a bit.
A few years ago Mercedes were going to build A class as fully electric, their early bodyshells were actually shaped to acceppt batteries. They decided to delay "electrification" (of A class). I dont think its as clear as you are suggesting flecc.

 

[Zlatan]

Disadvantages of Electric Cars: Pros, Cons, and Tradeoffs of EVs – Autowise

autowise.com

Good article here. Neither dismissive or too positive.

 

[flecc]

I dont think Ford have any concern in Mazda, I believe they sold their part ownership a few years ago.

True, but Mazda still have a lot of dependence, the Mazda 2 is largely the Ford Fiesta, the Mazda 3 the Ford Focus. They are moving apart though, anfd i daresxay Mazda aren't happy at Fords lack of progress on electric cars.

I wonder how many are actually ahead of the curve or catering to false beliefs? In another few years, it wouldnt surprise me to see folk saying "hang on a minute". We, ve jumped the gun a bit.
A few years ago Mercedes were going to build A class as fully electric, their early bodyshells were actually shaped to acceppt batteries. They decided to delay "electrification" (of A class). I dont think its as clear as you are suggesting flecc.

I completely disagree. That from Mercedes doesn't surprise me, the German industry is worried at how far they've fallen behind on e-cars and are now rushing to catch up. All the evidence of this is there and I can spell it out, but just watch the large range of e-car models that is appearing over this year and next, including from the German makers.
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[Zlatan]

True, but Mazda still have a lot of dependence, the Mazda 2 is largely the Ford Fiesta, the Mazda 3 the Ford Focus. They are moving apart though, anfd i daresxay Mazda aren't happy at Fords lack of progress on electric cars.



I completely disagree. That from Mercedes doesn't surprise me, the German industry is worried at how far they've fallen behind on e-cars and are now rushing to catch up. All the evidence of this is there and I can spell it out, but just watch the large range of e-car models that is appearing over this year and next, including from the German makers.
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Could be.
I, m keeping my eye on market and would (will) get an EV when possible.
I, ve just done a search on ebay, there are about 500 EVs listed. If I want a decent sized estate with under 75k,I,d need to fork out £52k.(There are a few Outlanders on circa £12k but with high mileage and likely needing battery renewals?)
I wonder if here lies an unmentioned problem. I would without doubt buy lets say a Vito van (diesel) with 150k plus. (my last Vito did 250k and is still working well for daughter)
What will older Tesla S, Tesla X , Jag I pace etc be worth with 5 year plus old batteries in them?
So at moment I have choice of £50k on I pace or £18k on XF 2.0??? Will that change? When the I pace is at £18k I, d avoid it...?? How much would 600kg of batteries cost??
Yes, economically its a different story on such as leaf, but folk buying big EVs at moment don't really worry about depreciation or renewing batteries. Neither are their problem.??
Its a very diverse economic strata buying EV at moment. Super rich replacing Porsche or money conscious replacing Corsas?

 

[flecc]

Disadvantages of Electric Cars: Pros, Cons, and Tradeoffs of EVs – Autowise

autowise.com

Good article here. Neither dismissive or too positive.

Indeed, but one serious fault, speaking of four year battery life. We already have e-cars running at up to 8 years on the original battery.
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[flecc]

What will older Tesla S, Tesla X , Jag I pace etc be worth with 5 year plus old batteries in them?

That was considered a big problem on the Leaf originally and s/h prices were very low up to four years ago. Back then I could buy a hardly used Leaf only 8 months old at only 40% of the new price But that's all changed now and those a few years old are sometimes even exceeding the s/h prices of ic cars. It's the realisation that the batteries are lasting much longer than originally forecast that's brought the change and even six or seven year olds sell ok.

On fuel alone an 8000 miles year Leaf driver will have saved £7k for a new battery on fuel at ten years. That's without counting the very low servicing costs, higher reliability and free road tax, plus any other benefits like free parking bays, free charging and no congestion charge.

And the batteries will get relatively cheaper with mass production anyway. 14 years ago a 360Wh e-bike lithium battery cost around £250 to £300 and only lasted two years if lucky. Now after 14 years of inflation one can buy one for less and it will probably last longer.

So I think this an overblown problem. There are huge interests wanting to talk down e-cars, not just car and fuel companies but also many millions of car owners who are cosy with what they have and want to continue gas guzzling and kicking up a noise. Yes, 4 x 4 users among them.
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[Zlatan]

Just How Long Will An EV Battery Last?

There are batteries in plenty of the thing we use on a daily basis. They eventually need replacing. Is this true for electric vehicles?

insideevs.com

Good article. Time will tell.

 

[flecc]

Just How Long Will An EV Battery Last?

There are batteries in plenty of the thing we use on a daily basis. They eventually need replacing. Is this true for electric vehicles?

insideevs.com

Good article. Time will tell.

Not an entirely good article, they've missed out an important factor, that almost all e-car cells are large and low density, greatly reducing stress in all circumstances. Tesla's original roadster had high density cells so did suffer, but no others have made that mistake.

The article ended on the right note though, consider the battery will last as long as the car.

For most owners that will be true, ten years or more. For those wanting to keep one longer, we won't all need the guaranteed 75% capacity at 8 years old, especially given the huge number of ultra rapid chargers there'll be in eight years time.
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[jonathan.agnew]

Could be.
I, m keeping my eye on market and would (will) get an EV when possible.
I, ve just done a search on ebay, there are about 500 EVs listed. If I want a decent sized estate with under 75k,I,d need to fork out £52k.(There are a few Outlanders on circa £12k but with high mileage and likely needing battery renewals?)
I wonder if here lies an unmentioned problem. I would without doubt buy lets say a Vito van (diesel) with 150k plus. (my last Vito did 250k and is still working well for daughter)
What will older Tesla S, Tesla X , Jag I pace etc be worth with 5 year plus old batteries in them?
So at moment I have choice of £50k on I pace or £18k on XF 2.0??? Will that change? When the I pace is at £18k I, d avoid it...?? How much would 600kg of batteries cost??
Yes, economically its a different story on such as leaf, but folk buying big EVs at moment don't really worry about depreciation or renewing batteries. Neither are their problem.??
Its a very diverse economic strata buying EV at moment. Super rich replacing Porsche or money conscious replacing Corsas?

Teslas s has specific idiosyncratic used problems - the door handles stop working, screens sometimes delaminate and thers a memory chip that's key to its functioning that goes fubar for having been overwritten to often. If these go it can be a royal pita (imagine being locked inside your tesla on the shoulder of the m25 with a flat mobile). But none are very costly. The bodies are aluminium (expensive in a ding but otherwise indestructible) and batteries last forever. A long distance limo firm in Vegas use them and the minimum it got out of a battery that was continuously rapid charged before it held only 70% capacity was 170k miles

 

[Zlatan]

Teslas s has specific idiosyncratic used problems - the door handles stop working, screens sometimes delaminate and thers a memory chip that's key to its functioning that goes fubar for having been overwritten to often. If these go it can be a royal pita (imagine being locked inside your tesla on the shoulder of the m25 with a flat mobile). But none are very costly. The bodies are aluminium (expensive in a ding but otherwise indestructible) and batteries last forever. A long distance limo firm in Vegas use them and the minimum it got out of a battery that was continuously rapid charged before it held only 70% capacity was 170k miles

Sounding more appealing...???

 

[flecc]

A long distance limo firm in Vegas use them and the minimum it got out of a battery that was continuously rapid charged before it held only 70% capacity was 170k miles

Even an early humble Nissan Leaf with it's five year warrantied small battery has run for a Cornish taxi company for some 70,000 miles and about eight years now on the original battery. They claim it still has full capacity.

They tried that Leaf as an experiment, but now have a fleet of five Leafs with just a couple of diesel cars for the odd very long trip. With their e-fleet approaching 200,000 miles altogether, they've saved a fortune in fuel costs.
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[oyster]

Even an early humble Nissan Leaf with it's five year warrantied small battery has run for a Cornish taxi company for some 70,000 miles and about eight years now on the original battery. They claim it still has full capacity.

They tried that Leaf as an experiment, but now have a fleet of five Leafs with just a couple of diesel cars for the odd very long trip. With their e-fleet approaching 200,000 miles altogether, they've saved a fortune in fuel costs.
.

I'm looking forward to significant numbers of electric vans. We seem to have a disporportionately high number of vans round here - of the generally Transit type as well as untold VW transporters and the like. Will be delighted to see fewer of their blackly smoking exhausts.

 

[wheeler]

Even an early humble Nissan Leaf with it's five year warrantied small battery has run for a Cornish taxi company for some 70,000 miles and about eight years now on the original battery. They claim it still has full capacity.

They tried that Leaf as an experiment, but now have a fleet of five Leafs with just a couple of diesel cars for the odd very long trip. With their e-fleet approaching 200,000 miles altogether, they've saved a fortune in fuel costs.
.

A bit more than 70k miles.

 

[vfr400]

Here's one big disadvantage of electric cars that needs to be sorted. Once the battery is damaged, it's really tricky to move anything because more cells could short and restart the fire.

The battery can be damaged by impact from just about any direction, while as an IC car is only vulnerable from behind, not counting electrical faults. Even then, the tank location and impact dynamics have been well-sorted over the years, so impact explosion is very rare and only in petrol cars. It's not at all easy for diesel to start burning unless there's already a fire from something else.

 

[wheeler]

I'm looking forward to significant numbers of electric vans. We seem to have a disporportionately high number of vans round here - of the generally Transit type as well as untold VW transporters and the like. Will be delighted to see fewer of their blackly smoking exhausts.

We see a lot of those around here too, mostly Amazon hires, but as they are all newer than 16-plate and Euro6 no smoke is seen.

 

[wheeler]

Here's one big disadvantage of electric cars that needs to be sorted. Once the battery is damaged, it's really tricky to move anything because more cells could short and restart the fire.

If 60 litres of petrol goes up you'll have more to think about than if the fire "could" re-start.

 

[vfr400]

If 60 litres of petrol goes up you'll have more to think about than if the fire "could" re-start.

I edited the post above.