Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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They just don't understand that a government, whether the individuals elected or those appointed by them, cannot just ignore the very laws that they have passed. Sure, this government hasn't done anything themselves to enhance employment protection, but unless they uphold the existing laws, any and every reason for the rest of us to abide by the laws they do pass simply disappears.

Cummings and Johnson face backlash over sacking of advisers
Union to pursue unfair dismissal case after ex-Treasury aide Sonia Khan was marched out of Downing Street
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/15/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-backlash-sacking-sonia-khan
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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One of Cummings new breed advisers Sabinsky


No room for the Unter Mensch in the Government
All far too familiar.
There is a place for eugenics and the obvious advantages it brings. Just because something has been misused by others is not a reason to permanently deprive ourselves of benefits.

It's just a question of having in place the legal safeguards to prevent abuse, just as we do already with human genetics.
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Woosh

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Union to pursue unfair dismissal case after ex-Treasury aide Sonia Khan was marched out of Downing Street
I sometime wonder what's wrong with politicians, those in BJ's cabinet.
They are usually so full of themselves, then appear to be totally subservient to the point of ridiculously aping a Chinese school in their first TV appearance, then behave like last century's bosses.
She of course should sue her boss, BJ and his spad.
 

oyster

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I sometime wonder what's wrong with politicians, those in BJ's cabinet.
They are usually so full of themselves, then appear to be totally subservient to the point of ridiculously aping a Chinese school in their first TV appearance, then behave like last century's bosses.
She of course should sue her boss, BJ and his spad.
Which is what I would like to see - and properly handled.

I do not want a secret pay-off.
 
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oldgroaner

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There is a place for eugenics and the obvious advantages it brings. Just because something has been misused by others is not a reason to permanently deprive ourselves of benefits.

It's just a question of having in place the legal safeguards to prevent abuse, just as we do already with human genetics.
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I remind you that in Germany it was used for genocide and in America to sterilise the simple minded.
Great theory, but dangerous.
Here he is

And a quote
"“From a societal perspective the benefits of giving everyone modafinil once a week are probably worth a dead kid once a year,” he says, matter-of-factly.
"
And here is Dominic Cummings' new adivsor, Andrew Sabisky, speaking at a white nationalist eugenics conference, later shut down by UCL:


Another over educated so called clever individual, yet he failed to predict the outcome of the Referendum, for all his vaunted talent.
The man has a God complex, give him a Brush and some toilet cleaner.
And proper supervision in their use.
 
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oldgroaner

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There is a place for eugenics and the obvious advantages it brings. Just because something has been misused by others is not a reason to permanently deprive ourselves of benefits.

It's just a question of having in place the legal safeguards to prevent abuse, just as we do already with human genetics.
.
What we really need are legal safeguards that deport Boris back to America :cool:
 
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Woosh

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It should be possible to discuss these things openly, rather than blindly censor and suppress free speech and research.
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freedom of speech is routinely used as excuse for extremist behaviour and the law does not help protecting those who are attacked.
A civilised society needs to protect first the weak before protecting those who attack them.
 

oldgroaner

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It should be possible to discuss these things openly, rather than blindly censor and suppress free speech and research.
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Within limits! where some idiot proposes giving mind enhancing drugs to children that are potentially lethal because the end justifies the means and only "the odd one or two are killed"
Doesn't come within those limits, especially when expressed as an instrument of policy for a Nationalist organisation.
Scientific debate is fine. promoting fascist Uber mensh idealogy is not.
 
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mike killay

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It should be possible to discuss these things openly, rather than blindly censor and suppress free speech and research.
.
Being related to desperately handicapped kids who should never have been born, I see the misery that eugenics could have avoided.
It might not be well known, but the Muscular Dystrophy defect is carried on the X chromosome (ie the female line) and the counselling given to families has for many decades suggested that they avoid having any children.
I personally knew a few old people long in their graves now who heeded this sage advice and adopted instead.
Properly managed, Eugenics has a valuable place in society and just because it has been abused is no reason to have a blanket ban on it just because Himmler liked it.
 

oldgroaner

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freedom of speech is routinely used as excuse for extremist behaviour and the law does not help protecting those who are attacked.
A civilised society needs to protect first the weak before protecting those who attack them.
Absolutely right
I should have though Brexit was the proof of that!
 
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flecc

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freedom of speech is routinely used as excuse for extremist behaviour and the law does not help protecting those who are attacked.
A civilised society needs to protect first the weak before protecting those who attack them.
As posted earlier, with legal protections. A meeting like the one I commented on is not attacking anyone, it contained some ideas for potentially attacking which, when in the open, can be dealt with.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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Being related to desperately handicapped kids who should never have been born, I see the misery that eugenics could have avoided.
It might not be well known, but the Muscular Dystrophy defect is carried on the X chromosome (ie the female line) and the counselling given to families has for many decades suggested that they avoid having any children.
I personally knew a few old people long in their graves now who heeded this sage advice and adopted instead.
Properly managed, Eugenics has a valuable place in society and just because it has been abused is no reason to have a blanket ban on it just because Himmler liked it.
America went so far as to sterilise people with "undesirable traits" during the 1930's and it was not co incidence that these same public spirited people looked with favour on Hitlers weeding out the sick.
Applying Eugenics is simply a dangerous intrusion into the human rights of the innocent
Advising people not to breed is one thing and fair enough, attacking their genetic code without their consent is simply an abuse of human rights.
The misery that Eugenics have caused historically should be a warning not to make it a mainstream thing, it is too easy to end up with people engineered to be a master race.
We have been there, it's a very dark place.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Within limits! where some idiot proposes giving mind enhancing drugs to children that are potentially lethal because the end justifies the means and only "the odd one or two are killed"
It's allowing him to say it openly that exposes the evil potential.
.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Applying Eugenics is simply a dangerous intrusion into the human rights of the innocent
Blinkered nonsense. We have it within our power to eliminate some conditions that cause endless pain, suffereing and misery.

The evil is in refusing to do so because it can also be used wrongly, while knowing that there can be legal safeguards to prevent such misuse.
.
 
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mike killay

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America went so far as to sterilise people with "undesirable traits" during the 1930's and it was not co incidence that these same public spirited people looked with favour on Hitlers weeding out the sick.
Applying Eugenics is simply a dangerous intrusion into the human rights of the innocent
Advising people not to breed is one thing and fair enough, attacking their genetic code without their consent is simply an abuse of human rights.
The misery that Eugenics have caused historically should be a warning not to make it a mainstream thing, it is too easy to end up with people engineered to be a master race.
We have been there, it's a very dark place.
Eugenics in various forms have been around since the dawn of time. Many societies routinely exposed new born children to ensure that only the fittest survived.
Nobody is suggesting copying the Nazis and murdering handicapped people.
I am sorry, but there is too much knee jerk reaction to this subject just because the Nazis and irresponsible Americans abused it.
It has the potential to permanently breed out various genetic problems from the human race.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Eugenics in various forms have been around since the dawn of time.
Those who condemn eugenics make no mention of the fact that we in Britain terminate 98% of Downs syndrome pregnancies.

Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the possibility of Downs, rather than killing them after conception?
.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Blinkered nonsense. We have it within our power to eliminate some conditions that cause endless pain, suffereing and misery.

The evil is in refusing to do so because it can also be used wrongly, while knowing that there can be legal safeguards to prevent such misuse.
.
Who decides who to eliminate? And on what grounds? This is a bit too much aldous huxley's brave new world. Human suffering has given us some of our most significant creative and scientific discoveries and breakthroughs. Van gogh or hawking could have been eliminated for their obvious genetic, psychological "deficits"
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Those who condemn eugenics make no mention of the fact that we in Britain terminate 98% of Downs syndrome pregnancies.

Wouldn't it be better to eliminate the possibility of Downs, rather than killing them after conception?
.
A relatively significant percentage of people with downs have iq's that are within the normal range
 
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