Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

This sort of attitude will do nothing to help the UK as a whole.

I was a remainer, we now need to forge a way ahead without petty sniping at the brexiters all the time.
The future is quite difficult to predict, otherwise I might be a rich man.

My last post here on this topic, and am sure if we can work together in harmony it may work out for the best in the long term.

Lister...
I don't think the comments from us Remainers are 'petty sniping',all of the disquiet is caused by Theresa May's reticence in allowing anyone,both the people and parliament,sight of her Brexit plan. All this uncertainty can be removed if she produced a white paper telling us where we are headed or at least where she wants us headed.
It seems completely undemocratic that the future of our country appears to be in the mind and hands of one woman,that really concerns me.Especially that woman appears to be an autocrat,out of her depth and indecisive,not a good combination when negotiating with our country.
She says that she won't reveal her plan because it will reveal what we want ex Brexit....that is complete rubbish,unless the EU negotiators have been media blind for the last 6 months,they know exactly what we want.
So we are left with plan B,this is the more likely,that we haven't got a plan and intend to make it up as we go along,in the meantime our country will be left in limbo.
If you think this is sour grapes on my part,I am sure that if May pulls us from the single market my business will be better off but more inward looking....removal of tariff barriers between China and UK will remove import tariff costs,making a lot of Chinese products very cheap in the UK....Dahon folding bikes versus Brompton,Flying Pigeon bikes versus Pashley.
Putting EU to UK import tariffs on Italian supplied product will open up China to supplying similar product direct into the UK. Import tariffs on German supplied alloy wheels and the deletion of anti dumping duties will make Chinese supplied wheels ultra competitive.
The list is very long but note it is only in the UK,we will end up a dumping ground for cheap Chinese manufactured product,we will find it difficult to sell such product into Europe. This is why so many low skilled jobs will have to go if we open the Chinese import gate.
At the moment it is the Remainers who frustratingly don't have a voice for our concerns and Leavers are languishing in the after glow of winning,but ultimately it will be the Leavers,especially the poor ones who will pay for Brexit and be much worse off as a result,the rich will find a way to adapt to Brexit.
None of that was on the referendum voting paper was it !!!!!
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

You really couldn't be more wrong, as the sort of attitude I extended is the best hope for the future of this country after all.
This is no time for "forging a way ahead"
There simply isn't a viable way of doing so, it is one for waiting for events to unfurl, no amount of goodwill on the part of individuals will make a tinkers cuss of difference, nor will it happen.
The brexit voters will eventually see that they have made a huge error, only then will there be a change for the better.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[anotherkiwi]

London will remain the global capital of finance despite Brexit, leading City figure says as Remain doom-mongers are proved wrong again

• Mark Boleat, policy chair of the City of London Corporation, says he has 'no doubt' London will remain the world's leading financial hub
• Insists business uncertainty can be overcome if ministers agree interim EU deal
• Comments defy doom-laden warnings of major job losses if UK-based firms lose financial passports, which gives them access to EU financial markets

In other news: Pigs spotted flying over London!

The money men will stay in London or go to where there is the most money to be made. They don't care about brexit or London or the UK, no all they care about is money...

 

[oldgroaner]

Here is an example of how to distort the truth from the Express
"
BOOMING BRITAIN: Brexit helps attract extra £16BILLION in foreign investment figures show

BRITAIN'S push for Brexit has helped attract an extra £16.3billion in foreign investment in UK businesses, new figures revealed last night.
In its first progress update, the department confirmed that its ministers and officials have helped broker investment deals worth more than £16.3billion.

One of the most recent deals involved the Australian energy firm Peak Resources investing £100million in a new minerals refinery in the Tees Valley.

The project aims to produce critical raw materials needed for electric and hybrid-drive motor vehicles.

Another deal expected to secure hundreds of jobs will see companies from Denmark, Germany and South Korea investing in the UK's first offshore wind towers at Campbeltown in Scotland.
Denmark-based firm DONG Energy is to build a £60million plant at Northwich, Cheshire, and plans to invest £12billion in renewable energy projects in the UK by 2020.

And Chinese construction firm CNBM is to plough £2.5billion into building 25,000 high-tech homes in the UK.

Six new factories in Scotland, Wales and England with more than 1,000 employees in total are to be set up by the firm to manufacturer parts for the pre-made "modular" homes.

Other deals include a digital sports media company bringing 100 new jobs to Leeds and a joint project worth £300million to regenerate the former Ferrybridge Power Station plant in West Yorkshire.
Officials also pointed out that the Department for International Trade is helping British entrepreneurs boost their foreign exports, with smaller-sized firms benefitting the most.

Figures showed the majority of businesses assisted by the department have fewer than 250 employees.
DONG Energy is the global leader in offshore wind power; we are an oil and gas producer and a leading energy supplier to the industrial and commercial market.

Headquartered in Denmark, we have been in the UK since 2004. The UK is now our primary market for offshore wind power production.
Note that fact..........

We have invested around £6bn in the UK and plan to double this investment by 2020.

This investment started years ago and is in the North Sea Wind Farm project and has NOTHING WHATEVER to do with BREXIT or Liam Fox's Department
(Apart from the fact they are claiming credit for Brokering a deal that predates their existence.)
The rest of the so called Boom is small Beer that happens all the time.

 

[oldtom]

Here is an example of how to distort the truth from the Express
"

This is classic, fascist propaganda, straight out of the master's textbook - you know the one - a short, German chap called Goebbels who told us that if you tell a lie big enough and often enough, etc.......

These media organs, mostly owned by fascist fanatics, are all guilty of publishing the tory message of lies and more lies from an editorial staff of inveterate liars of whom Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

Goebbels also said this:

"We enter parliament in order to supply ourselves, in the arsenal of democracy, with its own weapons. If democracy is so stupid as to give us free tickets and salaries for this bear's work, that is its affair. We do not come as friends, nor even as neutrals. We come as enemies. As the wolf bursts into the flock, so we come."

The resemblance between 1930s fascism and the current tory manifesto is not accidental - leopards never change their spots - and history has a habit of repeating itself!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

I missed this article back in August but it is interesting that someone is still around (unless she has popped her clogs since August) who can tell us what Goebbels was really like.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/15/brunhilde-pomsel-nazi-joseph-goebbels-propaganda-machine?CMP=fb_gu

Tom

ps Evidently, she is still alive and kicking....at least, I don't see her death recorded yet.

 

[oldtom]

Another offering I missed from the Guardian illustrates the kind of propaganda our mid-20th century, wartime government utilised, undoubtedly for the best of reasons, but it is disturbing that so many of our 21st century public have such a poor knowledge of history which goes some way to understanding how they are so easily led by the current parliamentary propagandists.

The continuous mass brainwashing of a nation's people over many, many years is something beyond the comprehension of those simpletons, racists and and racists in denial, who cannot see through the lies and rhetoric spouted by evil, self-serving fascists such as Farage, Gove, Johnson and all the others involved in the campaign to remove the British people from the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/aug/10/how-wartime-britons-were-easily-persuaded-by-the-propagandists

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

What is my "beef" with allowing Foreign Companies and capital to exploit our resources as Dong are going to do in the North Sea?
For a start we the people should have invested in the infrastructure and reaped the full benefit on something that is actually ours, rather than have the Government sell it off cheaply.
Can this make a difference?
Oh yes indeed, look for instance at North Sea oil
"
The UK government has incurred a loss from North Sea oil and gas production for the first time since records began nearly 50 years ago.

UK oil and gas production generated negative receipts in 2015-16 of -£24m, compared with +£2.15bn the year before.

Petroleum Revenue Tax (PRT) revenue was -£562m, following refunds to companies, while corporation tax revenue fell by 74% over the year to £538m.

The North Sea contributed £10.9bn to the Treasury just five years ago.
It was in fact never the Bonanza we had expected.
Now look at Norway's performance
The Norwegian government has defended its decision to withdraw money from the country's $819 billion dollar sovereign wealth fund.

In January the fund transferred $781 million dollars to the government -- the first such transfer since the fund was set up in 1996, according to the country's Ministry of Finance.

Brexit has delivered unlimited power to the Torys to sell off the family silver to anyone it takes a fancy to

They sell your, and your children' s future off, and into whose pockets does the money go?
This is what taking back control amounts to.

 

[oldtom]

There's an interesting piece from 'Vox Political' regarding the situation in Palestine. I don't suppose Theresa Maybeyesmaybeno reads that blog though!

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/12/30/should-the-uk-go-to-war-with-israel-because-of-new-zealand/

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Who benefits from Brexit? and why is it so popular with the moneyed Elite?
Think about this,
From Reuters
Britain avoided a collapse in mergers and acquisitions activity after the shock Brexit vote as foreign companies used sterling's spectacular devaluation against the U.S. dollar to snap up British companies, Thomson Reuters data shows.
Murdoch was a major player behind the Brexit Campaign, and it paid off big time for him
The drop in the pounds made him richer by many millions of pounds, didn't it?
Behind the headline numbers, there was another clear trend: foreign buyers - such as Rupert Murdoch's Twenty-First Century Fox - shopping with dollars for bargains while domestic UK-to-UK dealmaking fell off sharply.
And being a media mogul Murdoch isn't affected by the EU tariffs is he?
And nothing he does will help the balance of payments, he simply made a killing at our expense.
Did you vote Brexit? this is what your vote has achieved already and it is only the beginning of the greatest sell off of all time.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's a thought on Sovereignty and "Taking Back Control"
This Country doesn't in fact belong to any of us

"The world's primary feudal landowner is Queen Elizabeth II. She is Queen of 32 countries, head of a Commonwealth of 54 countries in which a quarter of the world's population lives, and legal owner of about 6.6 billion acres of land, one-sixth of the earth's land surface. Her position is a relic of the last and largest land empire in history, rumours of whose demise would appear to be somewhat premature based on her position and possessions. But her power is real, or at least legally real"
Still, never mind, eh?
Democracy? who needs it?

 

[D8ve]

OG be respectful when discussing the German Greek monarchy please.
It's one of our most British establishments.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG be respectful when discussing the German Greek monarchy please.
It's one of our most British establishments.

I remembered to curtsy and doff my cap as I wrote the comment, and muttered "Gott mit uns" just in case.

 

[Zlatan]

Tom's insane ramblings have taken this thread to a new low..what planet is he living on..
Flecc and Kudos...are you really aligning yourselves with that bullsh!t ??? Its plain obsessed madness. Unbelievable.

But few will disagree with him because he,s a remainer ??? Stick like proverbial..

 

[oldgroaner]

Tom's insane ramblings have taken this thread to a new low..what planet is he living on..
Flecc and Kudos...are you really aligning yourselves with that bullsh!t ??? Its plain obsessed madness. Unbelievable.

But few will disagree with him because he,s a remainer ??? Stick like proverbial..

Tolerant as ever, and judgemental too, you really don't change do you?
Tom has an opinion that is anti fascist, that is very true, so why do you find that offensive?
Can you offer any proof that what he claims is untrue?
If you can , feel free to comment to that effect.
Why do you keep harping on with this stereotyping "remainer" epithet, is your imagination so limited that you imagine he has only held these views since the referendum?
Make a New Year's resolution to both post on topic and watch the language, as the one "taking the thread to a new low" is you.

 

[Zlatan]

OG
We are all anti fascist remainer and leaver alike, it has absolutely nothing to do with the debate, yet Tom harps on about it continually. Arguing otherwise is calling leavers fascists by association...it us a completely spurious argument yet you support his ridiculous standpoint belittling your own.
Please explain what on earth Goebbels has got to do with Brexit ??? It really is barmy and I,d have far more respect for you if you actually said hang on a minute Tom, that's ridiculous. You dont , you agree with him for wrong reasons so his posts have got more and more extreme.(barmy?) You have supported his calling leavers idiots, tories scum, myself a bigot yet you correct Lister's , Tilson's and my posts. ???
Lister made a great post trying to find common ground for us all. Three remainers came on and rubbished it,
You seem very selective who you are critical of.
Happy new year OG.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
We are all anti fascist remainer and leaver alike, it has absolutely nothing to do with the debate, yet Tom harps on about it continually. Arguing otherwise is calling leavers fascists by association...it us a completely spurious argument yet you support his ridiculous standpoint belittling your own.
Please explain what on earth Goebbels has got to do with Brexit ??? It really is barmy and I,d have far more respect for you if you actually said hang on a minute Tom, that's ridiculous. You dont , you agree with him for wrong reasons so his posts have got more and more extreme.(barmy?) You have supported his calling leavers idiots, tories scum, myself a bigot yet you correct Lister's , Tilson's and my posts. ???
Lister made a great post trying to find common ground for us all. Three remainers came on and rubbished it,
You seem very selective who you are critical of.
Happy new year OG.

Happy New Year to you too!
I don't agree with Tom's view that the Elite are Fascist, as I think he flatters them in the sense of implying that they are a well organised group, when in fact I regard them more as a pack of Hyenas rather than a pack of wolves.

The question I posed for you was this
Can you offer any proof that what he claims is untrue?
If you can , feel free to comment to that effect.

Tom's main contention is that they employ lies mistruths, rumours and propaganda to further their ends using methods pioneered by the German Propaganda minister during the 1930's and 1940's
There is more than an element of truth in that assertion.
Enlighten me as to the difference if you can.

As to Lister's post, yes it was made with good intent, but that will not change events that are unfolding, nor make any difference to the eventual outcome.
I have not at any time supported Tom calling leave supporters names, and in fact if you look, my comments have always been to suggest they have been mistaken and misled, and in your case that you argue in a circular fashion, off topic , and attack the thread itself and also the moderators, and your interests are too focused on money when they should be directed at far more important social concerns, and you support the likes of Minford who would happily cast worker lives and jobs aside in the pursuit of profit.

If you recall I quoted his very words on that subject in an earlier post.
Thank you for noticing that I "seem very selective who you are critical of. "
I am, and have excellent reasons for being so, well spotted there.

 

[oldgroaner]

If further proof in support of Tom's assertion about the use of propaganda was needed the Express has this this morning
"
Britain will have given Brussels £623 BILLION by 2020 as cost of EU membership is revealed
BRITAIN’S EU membership has cost an eye-watering £527billion since 1973 - with the UK expected to hand over a further £96billion by the end of the decade, claim Change Britain."

And does not attempt to qualify that simple statement, with the usual with what was achieved in return, as if the money was simply wasted, or even to offer any proof to support the quoted figure

As the author hoped nonsense reader's comments resulted.,
"We could have spent that on X number of hospitals! is the cry, rather than the more truthful question.
"Into who's offshore bank accounts would it have gone?"
As the revenue from North Sea oil and gas did?

I keep reminding myself that Brexit voters are NOT STUPID
But it's getting harder every day.

 

[oldtom]

What kind of society are we living in when this goes on and the media doesn't even bother to report it widely?

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/12/31/as-the-homeless-death-count-grows-tories-must-be-delighted/

Meanwhile, the completely pointless and superfluous monarchy exercises its right to award honours to the likes of Mrs Beckham.......that is absolutely ridiculous! I mean, I can't even remember what position she played......or indeed who she played for!

So, the honours list occupying front pages in most of the tory media informs the simpletons that we British refuse to be changed and materialism remains the most important aspiration - greed is good, God's in her heaven and all is well with tory Britain!

It would be nice if 2017 saw a reduction in bureaucracy; for example, perhaps the monarch and the PM could settle on who is delivering the New Year message about the state of the nation and the hopes and aspirations for the coming year. There must be an efficiency saving to be made there.

Happy New Year to all those with a heart and a conscience.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Apparently, the honours price list for next year's honours list is already available:

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/12/31/crony-knighthood-for-company-boss-who-gave-930000-to-tories-their-2017-price-list-now-available/

Tom