Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,535
16,471
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
They are already aligned economically and will cheerfully break the sanctions even more than they are already. India has only just signed yet another arms manufacturing deal with Putin, this time to make more Kalashnikovs for Russia.
both are neutral in the Ukraine war. They won't automatically side with Russia in the next conflict because they have strong interest and ties with the EU.
The vote at the UN general assembly (02-MAR) was 141-5, the 5 are Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea and Eritrea.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,384
3,372
And a what point does India, China etc realise they are backing a despot leader who has rivals poisoned and imprisoned, one who oversees the viscous attacks on public who dare speak against war and one capable of war crimes, like bombing hospitals, schools and deliberately targeting civilians.???
Putin's behaviour is showcased in Ukraine. The longer it goes on the longer Russia will be a pariah state. Its only a matter of time for rest of world to see exactly the type of regime Putin represents and actually how what an utter shambles their military actually is in. They are losing this war, losing to a country 29th on list of military capability world wide. I doubt his own regime will tolerate this negative exposure much longer.
Aside from sweeping assumptions about the political orientations of vast heterogenous populations of (often authoritarian) states, the whole situation is reminiscent of the Angolan war of the eighties. Then uk and USA covertly supported an apartheid regime ( that was strategically important and quite literally a gold mine). But it's military defeat in Angola spelled the end of it, regardless of vested interests of powerful allies. And, on balance, the apartheid regime was perhaps less repugnant than the present Russian one. Which has lost 20% of its demoralised defeated army in Ukraine
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,822
30,382
And a what point does India, China etc realise they are backing a despot leader who has rivals poisoned and imprisoned, one who oversees the viscous attacks on public who dare speak against war and one capable of war crimes, like bombing hospitals, schools and deliberately targeting civilians.???
Putin's behaviour is showcased in Ukraine. The longer it goes on the longer Russia will be a pariah state. Its only a matter of time for rest of world to see exactly the type of regime Putin represents and actually how what an utter shambles their military actually is in. They are losing this war, losing to a country 29th on list of military capability world wide. I doubt his own regime will tolerate this negative exposure much longer.
Like Woosh, totally locked in your emotional western mindset.

What makes you think China really cares about the Russian behaviour in Ukraine? This is the China you were ranting about over the way they treat the Uyghurs!

And this is the India with a pattern of forced sterilisation to control population growth.

Human rights is a Western concept which much of the world doesn't subscribe to.
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,822
30,382
both are neutral in the Ukraine war. They won't automatically side with Russia in the next conflict because they have strong interest and ties with the EU.
The vote at the UN general assembly (02-MAR) was 141-5, the 5 are Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea and Eritrea.
Conveniently ignoring all those who refused to support the motion because they are friendly with Russia, such as 18 of Africa's 23 nations.

Of course others vote this way, as I posted before, it's politics, they say what is most convenient in any current situation. The only things that really count long term are the underlying alignment and ambitions.

They are siding with Russia in crucial ways in THIS conflict, undermining the sanctions by buying oil and gas and making arms for Russia while the conflict is still happening, this regardless of how they voted. Actions speak louder than words.
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,535
16,471
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Conveniently ignoring all those who refused to support the motion because they are friendly with Russia, such as 18 of Africa's 23 nations.
there were 35 abstentions. I can't say how many of them support Russia and how many don't.
However, I don't think all will support Russia like you implied though.
The vote at the UN Security Council is a bit clearer: 11-1 with 3 abstentions (China, India and UAE). I certainly wouldn't bet on them supporting Russia in WW3.
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,384
3,372
You have a strange notion of what 20% of 150,000 is.
.
Wounded are between 2 and 13 times kill ratio
 
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,289
You have a strange notion of what 20% of 150,000 is.
.
It's not as simple as that Flecc. Russians are (or did, they now say site was hacked) saying around 10,000 soldiers dead and if as in other conflicts that would mean around double that number injured. Units with high levels of losses are withdrawn in attempts to limit demoralisation of remainder of troops... So its quite likely even tho losses are not at 20% (they couldn't operate at such levels) the resultant reduction in capacity to attack is probably way over that 20%..Accordung to reports all fronts are again static. Russia is facing massive losses, no matter how you assess it. Yes, Ukraine are also no doubt sustaining losses to both civilians and soldiers but with a conscript army at their call fighting for their homes the actual drop in capacity is minimal. Russians know all this, that's why they are attempting to demoralise public, blowing up hospitals and schools.
In many ways Russia has already lost this war. Trouble is they could well destroy Ukraine in an attempt to prove otherwise. But would razing another City to ground constitute victory..??? I doubt it.
From the start it always being fairly obvious Russia won't, can't just roll into Ukraine and take over. Putin was deluded to assume he could. Said it before, but Ukraine is size of France with 40 million inhabitants. 200,000 soldiers can not subdue that number of folk if they don't want to be subjugated, enslaved. Putin's reputation and reliance as such as Kadrov only stenghten Ukraine resolve.
 
Last edited:

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
It's not as simple as that Flecc. Russians are (or did, they now say site was hacked) saying around 10,000 soldiers dead and if as in other conflicts that would mean around double that number injured. Units with high levels of losses are withdrawn in attempts to limit demoralisation of remainder of troops... So its quite likely even tho losses are not at 20% (they couldn't operate at such levels) the resultant reduction in capacity to attack is probably way over that 20%..Accordung to reports all fronts are again static. Russia is facing massive losses, no matter how you assess it. Yes, Ukraine are also no doubt sustaining losses to both civilians and soldiers but with a conscript army at their call fighting for their homes the actual drop in capacity is minimal. Russians know all this, that's why they are attempting to demoralise public, blowing up hospitals and schools.
In many ways Russia has already lost this war. Trouble is they could well destroy Ukraine in an attempt to prove otherwise. But would razing another City to ground constitute victory..??? I doubt it.
From the start it always being fairly obvious Russia won't, can't just roll into Ukraine and take over. Putin was deluded to assume he could. Said it before, but Ukraine is size of France with 40 million inhabitants. 200,000 soldiers can not subdue that number of folk if they don't want to be subjugated, enslaved. Putin's reputation and reliance as such as Kadrov only stenghten Ukraine resolve.
Putin seems to have a Stalinesque view of the effectiveness of tank regiments. Which has been outdated by the weapons assembled against them.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,384
3,372
Putin seems to have a Stalinesque view of the effectiveness of tank regiments. Which has been outdated by the weapons assembled against them.
There's an extraordinary bit of youtube footage of a Ukrainian btr4 knocking out a t72 by shooting it with its 30mm autocannon between the tracks. Which isn't supposed to be possible (it appear unfaked, 30mm hasax penetrative of 50mm welded steel, t72 supposedly 80mm there, I imagine its down to dodgy russian QC and corruption)
 
  • :D
  • Like
Reactions: POLLY and Zlatan

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,289
Putin seems to have a Stalinesque view of the effectiveness of tank regiments. Which has been outdated by the weapons assembled against them.
Think its only going to get worse for them aswell. NLAW much as called next generation is actually last one. Real next generation are such as Switchblade drones. They are mortared into battle zone and loiter looking for high value targets,from guns to tanks, fuel wagons to commanders. All programmed into its memory. Sees one, lands on it and destroys it. US have sent thousands of the damn things. Don't show on radar, too small to shoot at but deadly for anything in its ecu... You can bet US know exactly what they are likely to see.. Trouble is its just going to make Putin more desperate and angry..
Imagine a thousand drones descending on your battalion, each one with a 4kg shaped charge.. They can work individually or collectively.
 
  • Informative
  • :D
Reactions: Woosh and POLLY

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,289
There's an extraordinary bit of youtube footage of a Ukrainian btr4 knocking out a t72 by shooting it with its 30mm autocannon between the tracks. Which isn't supposed to be possible (it appear unfaked, 30mm hasax penetrative of 50mm welded steel, t72 supposedly 80mm there, I imagine its down to dodgy russian QC and corruption)
Mod tested some t72s and decided armour was at best variable, some with no heat treatment and brittle, some too much and soft. You only have to look at cages they are welding on top, they are struggling. Reactive armour useless against NLAW, Javelin... They have a series of charges, first one defeats reactive, second tank..
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,457
32,608
80
Nestle have made an enemy of Anonymous

"Anonymous announced it has leaked the database of Nestlé, the largest food company in the world. They tweeted about the leak of 10GB data of emails, passwords, Nestlé business customers, 16:15 EET
 
  • Informative
Reactions: oyster

daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
952
1,366
pontefract
Mod tested some t72s and decided armour was at best variable, some with no heat treatment and brittle, some too much and soft. You only have to look at cages they are welding on top, they are struggling. Reactive armour useless against NLAW, Javelin... They have a series of charges, first one defeats reactive, second tank..
With modern warfare you would be better off hiding in a Bush than in a Tank.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,535
16,471
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
With modern warfare you would be better off hiding in a Bush than in a Tank.
the Ukrainians would probably need thousands of Switchblade drones to make an impact.
They have been given only 100 though.
 

Advertisers