Building in CREE light

[103Alex1]

Considering building in one of these and either modding the existing battery pack to remain inside triangle box or making up a bigger separate battery with more battery life to fuel it :

HOT 3 x CREE XM-L T6 LED 4000LM Bicycle bike HeadLight Lamp Light Headlamp | eBay

This would be for use as a high-powered auxiliary light with its own power supply in my box to turn on whenever required. I already have the light, but seeing as I b*ggered the battery lead leaving it dangling to catch on a spoke and rip to exposed wire near the heatshrink it's pretty much useless if I don't do something with the battery pack or buy a new one (am a cheapskate at times too ) - and even if I could find a battery pack with compatible connector for the light, the connectors aren't actually that great on this particular one anyway.

This is what I envisage would be involved in building in / converting :

1) disassemble battery pack or build new (bigger) one from 18650 cells from Torchy or similar and ensure charger can be rewired to be compatible with new battery pack connectors

2) Make / convert from single lead DC output from battery pack serving charger and light (depending on which you plug in) as it is now to double lead output, one serving each (if that were possible or necessary) like my bike battery

3) Re-shrink battery pack (if I can find wide enough shrinkwrap)

4) Attach chassis socket to battery for external mounting and coupling to charger and rewire charger

5) cut connector off light, get new connector and attach new cabling or extend existing cabling

6) Insert isolator switch between battery and light so does not discharge when left on bike - so can switch on at start of ride if I want to have it available to turn on

7) insert in-line fuse if needed

8) Use light's manual brightness settings in exactly the same way as I do now, using on-light switch.

My understanding is that building in this light to run off my main battery will likely draw too many amps to make it sensible. So my logic says to simply replicate the setup on the main battery for a secondary one. So if that's the case, have I missed anything in my outline appraisal of what's involved & is this all too much for an auxiliary light which I can replace for £30 if it's nicked ? Better sleep on it lol.

 

[tillson]

Considering building in one of these and either modding the existing battery pack to remain inside triangle box or making up a bigger separate battery with more battery life to fuel it :

HOT 3 x CREE XM-L T6 LED 4000LM Bicycle bike HeadLight Lamp Light Headlamp | eBay

This would be for use as a high-powered auxiliary light with its own power supply in my box to turn on whenever required. I already have the light, but seeing as I b*ggered the battery lead leaving it dangling to catch on a spoke and rip to exposed wire near the heatshrink it's pretty much useless if I don't do something with the battery pack or buy a new one (am a cheapskate at times too ) - and even if I could find a battery pack with compatible connector for the light, the connectors aren't actually that great on this particular one anyway.

This is what I envisage would be involved in building in / converting :

1) disassemble battery pack or build new (bigger) one from 18650 cells from Torchy or similar and ensure charger can be rewired to be compatible with new battery pack connectors

2) Make / convert from single lead DC output from battery pack serving charger and light (depending on which you plug in) as it is now to double lead output, one serving each (if that were possible or necessary) like my bike battery

3) Re-shrink battery pack (if I can find wide enough shrinkwrap)

4) Attach chassis socket to battery for external mounting and coupling to charger and rewire charger

5) cut connector off light, get new connector and attach new cabling or extend existing cabling

6) Insert isolator switch between battery and light so does not discharge when left on bike - so can switch on at start of ride if I want to have it available to turn on

7) insert in-line fuse if needed

8) Use light's manual brightness settings in exactly the same way as I do now, using on-light switch.

My understanding is that building in this light to run off my main battery will likely draw too many amps to make it sensible. So my logic says to simply replicate the setup on the main battery for a secondary one. So if that's the case, have I missed anything in my outline appraisal of what's involved & is this all too much for an auxiliary light which I can replace for £30 if it's nicked ? Better sleep on it lol.

You seem to be building lots of different light set-ups. Here's something which works off a Kalkhoff battery and can be connected directly to the battery:

One of these

This to put it in.

A T bar to fix your lights to.

A couple of these mounts.

Two of these lights.

And one of theses rear lights.

A waterproof toggle switch.

A small indicator LED

An inline fuse.

Some wire.

Mount the waterproof switch in the case I linked together with the "power on" LED.

This lot will run quite happily from your bike battery via the converter, provide as much light as you need to see ahead and will make you very visible to the rear. You can run the wire to the front inside the frame and if you mount the convertor on the rack support frame directly behind the seat post, it makes a very discrete and neat installation. Forget fannying around with handlebar switches and a dipping mechanism, both are unnecessary complications.

Works a treat.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I like the idea of keeping it simple.
These little T6 flashlights are pretty good. The zoomable ones give a good spread of light. If you got two, and mounted them on the T-bar above, you could have one on wide and one on narrow. They can be attached/detached in seconds. You can get four batteries, so that you always have a spare for each in case you forget to charge.
1600 Lumen Cree XM-L T6 LED Zoomable Flashlight Torch With Golden Attack New WST | eBay
4 x UltraFire 18650 3.7v 3000mAh Protected Rechargeable Battery + CHARGER | eBay
Flashlight Mount Holder For LED Bicycle Bike Torch Clip | eBay

 

[103Alex1]

You seem to be building lots of different light set-ups. Here's something which works off a Kalkhoff battery and can be connected directly to the battery:

One of these

This to put it in.

A T bar to fix your lights to.

A couple of these mounts.

Two of these lights.

And one of theses rear lights.

A waterproof toggle switch.

A small indicator LED

An inline fuse.

Some wire.

Mount the waterproof switch in the case I linked together with the "power on" LED.

This lot will run quite happily from your bike battery via the converter, provide as much light as you need to see ahead and will make you very visible to the rear. You can run the wire to the front inside the frame and if you mount the convertor on the rack support frame directly behind the seat post, it makes a very discrete and neat installation. Forget fannying around with handlebar switches and a dipping mechanism, both are unnecessary complications.

Works a treat.

Thanks Tillson. The lighting setups I'm trying to build are for my new conversion and would run off a 36v 20Ah battery from BMS. The Kalkhoff has built-in front dynamo (permanent backup, trying to replicate or improve on for new bike without paying £200-odd to install a top-end front wheel dynamo and lighting on new bike which only ever gives me back-up anyway) and CREEs popped on the handlebars when needed, which I can live with on the town Kalkhoff but would ideally like to do better on one I design and build myself.

If going to the bother of building in, don't want my range severely dented by the lights, can't have blinding lights which I can't easily dip on the road for oncoming traffic and the 250-odd lm bicycle lights are way too puny.

There seems next to nothing available as a happy medium without being either too bright, not bright enough, impossible to easily switch on the move, drawing too much power from the bike battery or reliant on a DC-DC converter prone to blowing up.

I like those lights you've linked but in my experience these CREE lights are too bright not to dip for oncoming traffic at close range. However, only CREEs like this are really bright enough for proper dark lane use. That's the reason for wanting the dipping function or having a switch between one set and another 'socially acceptable' set. It's safety-led I guess and trying to be sensitive to all the criticism of people riding around with blinding bright lights on their bikes (at enormous effort it seems now !!!!)

General philosophy is if doing a shed load of work up-front means I can click off and not have on-going management of a system and be a scatty, impulsive and forgetful (bar charging the main bike battery) as I typically am, without constantly having to think about keeping charged battery stock or even taking them with me without getting caught out in the dark by staying out longer than I expected to, then it's worth all the effort.

Would pay a decent amount (even up to £100) for a "fit and forget", works like a dream, draws very little power and works on varying brightnesses in a range of conditions at the click of a (preferably backlit) waterproof handlebar switch in a 'convenient spot to flick' solution.

No. 1 priority is a theft-resistant permanently mounted light set to provide basic bicycle lights (front). By theft resistant I mean mounted on a bracket and not quick-release. Rear lights are a bonus because batteries last forever, don;t need charging and spares are dirt cheap.

No. 2 priority is having CREE dark lane / off-road lighting which is easy to dip for oncoming cars if you hit one on the road. Ideally built-in too if I'm going to all the trouble of building in the essential ones. It's probably no more than a couple of hours extra work to fit (if about 25 hours of trying to work out how to do it and source the bits lol !).

If it really isn't possible safely without hammering my BMS shrinkwrap battery range then at £5 a go I'll probably buy 6 or 7 torches with batteries, leave a few in my bike box behind a screw-in panel and some others in a box at home. Then when the one I walk away and leave on my handlebars is inevitably stolen miles from anywhere to get a spare, or I lose or damage the one I took off the bike and carried with me, I can retrieve a replacement from my bike box by removing a few screws and get myself home safely, along the lines of d8veh's approach below.

I'm really trying to upgrade the end project outcome beyond that of a basic DIY bike to look more like a bought custom-designed eBike, as it's cost a packet to put it together (money well spent tho' and the learning experience is worth a few hundred pounds alone !) .. but nonetheless my sensibilities can't help trying to do the best I can for a really clever smart end result where everything works at the flick of a switch .

I like the idea of keeping it simple.
These little T6 flashlights are pretty good. The zoomable ones give a good spread of light. If you got two, and mounted them on the T-bar above, you could have one on wide and one on narrow. They can be attached/detached in seconds. You can get four batteries, so that you always have a spare for each in case you forget to charge.
1600 Lumen Cree XM-L T6 LED Zoomable Flashlight Torch With Golden Attack New WST | eBay
4 x UltraFire 18650 3.7v 3000mAh Protected Rechargeable Battery + CHARGER | eBay
Flashlight Mount Holder For LED Bicycle Bike Torch Clip | eBay

 

[tillson]

The lights I have linked to are not too bright as long as you adjust them sensibly. There is absolutely no need to invent a dipping mechanism, it will just over complicate things. Adjust the lights properly and they will light the path ahead for a distance which is greater than your stopping distance without dazzling anyone. This is all you need to achieve. Anything more is redundant.

The 36v 20 Ah battery you are proposing will power the light setup I have suggested for days without re-charging. Reduction in the bike range is so negligible that you can forget it.

 

[103Alex1]

Then that sounds 'spot on' . Thank you. Been round in endless circles trying to get here ! Is the adjustment down to varying the input voltage, done via the brightness button on the back of the lights or some other way ?

Also can I use one of these converters I have on order and have been dispatched already, or is it better to get one of the 9V ones you've linked :

LM2596HV DCDC Step Down Converter Adjustable + Heatsink | eBay

I may need some help working out how to splice in to my battery supply and other circuitry as am still doing all this for the 1st time with much to learn.

Would be very grateful to all helping out with that .

 

[tillson]

Then that sounds 'spot on' . Thank you. Been round in endless circles trying to get here ! Is the adjustment down to varying the input voltage, done via the brightness button on the back of the lights or some other way ?

Also can I use one of these converters I have on order and have been dispatched already, or is it better to get one of the 9V ones you've linked :

LM2596HV DCDC Step Down Converter Adjustable + Heatsink | eBay

I may need some help working out how to splice in to my battery supply and other circuitry as am still doing all this for the 1st time with much to learn.

Would be very grateful to all helping out with that .

The adjustment is achieved by pointing the lights. I have one aimed so the hot spot is 5 metres ahead and the second one aimed so that the hot spot is about 40 metres ahead. The light spill about the hotspots increases the forward range of the beam to about 100 metres with a nice pool of bright light closer to the front wheel. With the lights set up in this way, there is no need for any electrical dipping or dimming of the lamps. I don't even know if it is possible to do this as LEDs don't tend to dim with input voltage in the same way that incandescent filaments do. My experience with LEDs of this type is that they tend to stay more or less at the same brightness and then simply go out when the voltage drops below a certain threshold.

The DC-DC converter is very simple. It has three terminals. Input voltage, a common negative and a 9 V output terminal. The converter you have linked to will probably work. If it blows up, buy the one I linked to for an additional £1.80 outlay!

It's up to you, but I would forget a dimming switch. Just aim the lights properly and you won't have a problem.

 

[103Alex1]

OK. I think for now I'm going to buy this lot as something which is definitely going to work to provide the basic minimum needs and get me on the road, but seems a lot of money and CREE power to only light up 15-20mph stopping distance. It's your speed plus the oncoming car's that needs allowing for i.e. 15mph and up to 65mph = 80mph.

Having cars seeing your beam from a mile away looking like another car is the only real protection from being mowed down at night on narrow rural lanes with passing places, hairpin bends and very high hedges on either side. Speeding, reckless driving and drink driving are rampant and barely controlled as there is next to no police presence.

Will still wind up mounting a standalone battery-powered blinding dazzle torch on handlebars also, for cars to see from a mile away on night rides that I can simply switch off - or flash at cars who don't dip their beam. A high-beam motorbike / car headlight style brightness lamp as an auxilliary system is a must round here. Sorry to fly in the face of cycling etiquette but cyclists have no place on those lanes at night without lighting equipment that the local drivers understand how to read from a distance driving at 60mph round bends with poor visibility and respond to in time not to run cyclists down. There are hardly any bicycles on these lanes at night. For very good reasons

I may still test 2-3 other systems in the meantime to play around with as I still like the dimmer function concept and reckon there's more potential here for user-friendly lighting than is being installed, probably due to the complexity required.

 

[Scimitar]

Having just installed a trailing-edge dimmer on my LED PAR30 fittings in my living room I can say that provided the LED lights are designed as dimmable, they do dim. It's not linear though, and it was interesting to see how the LED lamps behaved in parallel with the existing tungstens. There's a slight diminution of light, until near the bottom third of the dimming range, then they go down quickly, but controllably.
That dimming device on the other thread (the one with the 15W light heads) likely has the characteristics of the lightheads designed into it, although it probably works with other types. It is sold seperately too, so obviously has wider application than just his own lightheads.
Food for thought; it's cheap enough on its own, so I might get one just to fiddle with.

 

[103Alex1]

Scimitar, on that installation option with by-pass, would this be a suitable 4-way relay on a 12V circuit :

LMA Relay Standard On/Off 4 Pin 12V 30 Amp | eBay

... and are these the sort of chrome 2-way dip switches you had in mind for a handlebar mount :

Chrome 2 Position Dip Switch with Kill Button for 7/8" Bars | eBay

 

[Scimitar]

Scimitar, on that installation option with by-pass, would this be a suitable 4-way relay on a 12V circuit :

LMA Relay Standard On/Off 4 Pin 12V 30 Amp | eBay

... and are these the sort of chrome 2-way dip switches you had in mind for a handlebar mount :

Chrome 2 Position Dip Switch with Kill Button for 7/8" Bars | eBay

On the second wiring diagram down, you don't even need the relay - the relay is only there to integrate the lights with an existing hi/lo circuit. The simple on/off switch is all you need for the dimmer to work. I would put a master on/off switch in series with the fuse, in the positive feed wire.
12V 24V Aux Cree LED Light G650GS R1200GS Dorsoduro Shiver Versys TDM Safari WRC | eBay

That bar-mounted main/dip switch is exactly what I was thinking of, but you could use that as a simple on/off switch to control the dimmer as depicted in diagram 2.

 

[103Alex1]

Ah ... I have clearly misunderstood something about what the relay does ! I can live without the dimmer to be honest. Was mainly liking the supplier owing to them producing something I can follow on a piece of paper drawing, see how it fitted together and have access to the remote on-off function to avoid having to think about getting yet another master on-off switch mounted lol.

If you look at my drawing here :

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13885-built-lighting-another-go.html

that's really where I was coming from trying to simplify out the dimmer but keep a function of having a 2-setting switch (setting one = group of lights 1 & setting 2 = light or group of lights 2) on the bars. All this rather than trying to get compatibility between dimmer and high-powered CREE lights allowing dipping on the move.

I'm starting to see the relationships - slowly - hopefully come round to "getting it" soon !

 

[Scimitar]

Here's an interesting DC/DC converter - up to 72V in, 12V out, 10A load; suitable for all manner of EVs.
DC DC Converter Voltage Reducer Regulator 72V Step Down to 12V 10A 120W DC to DC | eBay
I've bookmarked this one for my own use
And here's another one from the same seller - up to 40V DC input, output 12V, 20A max.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120966517136

 

[103Alex1]

Two of these lights.

Hopefully very close to getting a plan now. I like these lights and the majority of the stuff you've recommended . Thanks. However, I would like to use these 2 lights as a 'beam up' rather than day-running light set, turned on via handlebar hi-low switch like this (or a combi-switch which could do the same thing) :

Free Shipping Brand New Hi Lo Light Switch for Scooters and Bikes Guaranteed 100%-in Motorcycle Switches from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com

The only difficulty I'm envisaging is the button on the back where you manually turn them on and scrol through the brightness settings. Would rather just use the 'beam up' button as an on/off, to switch them onto a fixed brightness setting (i.e. I don't want to control the brightness setting on the lights themselves (or use 'flashing' as would plan to pre-set constant brightness on installation).

So basically I'd need to by-pass the 3-switch mode on the lamps. Can the switch on the back of the light be by-passed or will they need to be mounted somewhere that I have to turn them via the switch on the back of each light and choose brightness level every time the lights are turned on ?

If they have to be switched on at the light unit then they wouldn't work mounted on a front stem bracket where I'd planned to put them for switching on and off during riding via handlebar switch. I'm very tight on space on the handlebars already so moving the lights to a bracket below would be a big help.

 

[103Alex1]

Edit :

Just read these threads on another forum - seems like the push-button switch triggers an in-built driver in the lights to scroll through brightnss modes and therefore you'd need to take the lights apart and install a 1-mode driver in place of the ones inside. Then you have the problem of whether the driver blows the lamps or not.

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Hi-Powered LED: Bypassing the 5-Way Switch

New XM-L driver on DX, anyone getting one? - Page 2

Noobie Driver Wiring Question

So basically it sounds like a MAJOR hasstle to try to use CREE T6 lights in anything but the stock 'turn on at the lamp and scroll through brighness settings using the button on the back'. This is whether you wire them in to operate on beam (in no way an instant 'beam-up' solution) or just to run off your bike battery..

Lots of people trying to disable the flashing mode on torches for off-road use lights for example, clearly trying to mod out annoying redundant functionality for their personal needs. You'd think someone would make higher powered T6s in single mode for wiring in without basically a complete remake of the whole light ... bit of a niche, maybe, but I bet a few e-Bike owners (especially of crank drive off-roader bikes) would go for a hi-Lm bike-mounted wired-in T6 unit set up to draw power at low battery usage current, and activated via a handlebar "off-road lighting" flick-switch if it come on the market

... if torches weren't so cheap it might even be worth developing one as an install option for manufacturers of (MTB) S-Pedelecs. Looking at the price of Lupine, Magicshine etc. I bet you could get away with about 200+Euros for a triple-headed system activating increasing numbers of lamps for additional brightness to light up night rides, not just the usual 250lm dynamo-driven box-tickers.

You could spend longer designing and building a bike lighting system than building the rest of the bike . Am finally coming round to understanding the "simple is best" advice and the reasoning for getting rid of the dimmer switch etc. with the T6s.

When I'm told to keep it simple nowadays am learning to hold back and try to get to the bottom of why .. to me it seemed more straightforward to just wire in the up/down beam & handlebar switch .... BUT :

- The ones I want on all the time (or on low-beam on a 3-setting switch) are the single-mode ones which would be suitable for a high-beam ; and

- The ones I want for high-beam are multi-mode T6s which you have to faff about turning on at the lamp through multiple modes so not worth having the beam up function. I could install this single-mode one for a high-beam option ...

12V 5W LED CREE Home Garden Waterproof Day Work Spot Decoration Light Outdoor | eBay

but not sure ATM that it's worth the extra work for the outcome over just mounting 2 CREE T6s to run off bike battery and switching them on at the lamp at the start of the ride.

Other members' experiences and experimentation has been extremely helpful so far - really grateful for all feedback in trying to plan this. Lots of compromises to be made in this area stemming from characteristics of the products available !!

 

[benjy_a]

I have a magicshine T6 which is now single mode on/off. I made this by accident; when my first DCDC converter failed it blew the driver in the light. Now the light is just on all the time.

 

[Old_Dave]

I have a magicshine T6 which is now single mode on/off. I made this by accident; when my first DCDC converter failed it blew the driver in the light. Now the light is just on all the time.

Which raises a good point.... Purchasing a T6 and a suitable single function driver is not that expensive



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[103Alex1]

... so you could just blow the driver and achieve what you're looking for ? ... what if the lights stuck on the wrong phase tho' ... is that possible ? ... benjy, maybe you could spare me your blown driver magicshine for a beam up light .. what lm is it ?

Old_Dave, I was thinking just that initially before sinking under the weight of ignorance about relevant technology and wondering whether it would be 10 days of soul searching trying to find out how to do it ! The single phase driver circuit boards seem to be readily available. The only thing is on some of the (better - ??) made T6 light units the board is epoxied into the housing behind a moulded rim which can't be accessed without cutting it out ... You'd then presumably have a getting a ship into a bottle issue trying to insert the new one and getting it sealed in place .

 

[benjy_a]

Hi Alex, I'm afraid I intend to use my fried magicshine for a while on my Brompton in order to test a new DCDC converter. If it functions ok I may use my newer light head and sell the blown one after I've tested for a while.

 

[Old_Dave]

You'd then presumably have a getting a ship into a bottle issue

Yes... but (there's always a but, lol)

You are allowed to choose your own bottle for putting the ship in