Help! Can you help me find an E-bike?

[lieinking1]

I started cycling last year and have gone through two Ebikes. I have an Ado Air 20 and Engwe L20. My main problem with the former is it struggles with hills. With the Engwe it doesn't feel enough like a bicycle. It's heavy with fat tires. The assistance takes like 2 seconds to take effect and it doesn't feel like my pedalling force is doing much compared with the motor. It's not far from ghost pedalling sometimes. Also the website I bought it from said it's UK road legal but the bike has a dead throttle which is unlockable I don't think I can remove so I'm not sure how law enforcement would react to that.

So my requirements for a new E-bike would be something that can get up hills 10-12% and is surely allowed. I also want to be able to get exercise on it but turn the assist to maximum when I'm tired. I don't care if it's assisted only up to 15.5mph but if so would like to be able to pedal up to like 20mph. I would also like it to either have a large range battery or be ridable without a battery. Both E-bikes I've tried are torture on the legs to or unrideable without assist.

budget for the bike is up to £3k

 

[Az.]

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Does it have to be a folder? You will find it very difficult to pedal electric folder at 20mph. Any legal e-bike will be problematic at 20mph really.

How heavy are you?
How far do you want to travel?

 

[lieinking1]

The Rambletta | Powerful Foldable Electric Bikes with 10.4AH semi-hidden battery from Woosh

The Woosh Rambletta is the most recent 20kg folding bike from Woosh, with a large 36V * 10.4AH semi-hidden battery, very easy to stowaway, perfect for camping / caravanning.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Does it have to be a folder? You will find it very difficult to pedal electric folder at 20mph. Any legal e-bike will be problematic at 20mph really.

How heavy are you?
How far do you want to travel?

don't care if it folds
105kg
at least 12 miles preferably 20+miles. First e bike claimed 100km range but barely got 20km at max assist and that range reduced after several months.

 

[matthewslack]

If you want something that rides like a normal bike, just not such hard work, then you need a torque sensor system. If you want easy hills, you need a mid-drive.

Plenty of options for £3K.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I don't think you are going to ride any electric bike at 20 mph on the flat with just pedal power - (although of course you will be able to down hills - I often hit 30 mph down hills and there's some here that go considerably faster)

There are lightweight bikes that have motors - eg Woosh Faro and the Mahle X20 / X35 powered bikes but you are the same sort of weight as me and you will need to put in considerable pedalling effort to go up 10%-12% hills on those bikes.

There are other more powerful bikes - eg Woosh Camino, Wisper Tailwind and Wisper 905 that will give you more assistance up hills. (Woosh and Wisper have good customer service and support reputations and are based in the UK)

If you buy a bike which allows you to adjust the max assist speed (either directly or by reducing the wheel size in the settings), then you could take advantage of the 10% leeway on speed limits , confirmed by the DOT and adjust the max assist speed to 17 mph

A quick question about the 15.5mph assisted legal limit

I believe I'm right in writing there is a 10% tolerance for this speed so the real maximum top speed is about 17-17.5mph but this is the absolute top legal limit. It allows for different tyre sizes that would mean different assist speeds. I'm just curious how is the 15.5mph limit set is it the...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

A cheapo option would be the Eleglide M2

ELEGLIDE M2 Electric Mountain Bike 27.5"/29"

Introducing the Eleglide M2 Electric Mountain Bike: Your Ultimate Off-Road Adventure Companion!Explore the outdoors with the Eleglide M2 Electric Mountain Bike, designed to elevate your riding experience. Equipped with impressive features, this cutting-edge e-bike guarantees an exhilarating...

www.electricscooterslondon.com

Or how about building your own (or have someone build you a custom bike). Take a normal pedal cycle that suits you and add either a hub motor or mid drive motor. I have a Woosh XF08C kit with 36V 20Ah battery and 36V 18 amp controller - that should be more than powerful enough for your requirements - just make sure the donor bike has disc brakes

There are a lot of Bosch / Yamaha /Shimano powered mid drive bikes that you will see at bike shops that I don't know too much about but you are about bit reliant on the shops for servicing and repairs

 

[Woosh]

due to your weight, hill climbing requirement and range, I would suggest the Gran Camino. It's comfortable on long rides with its larger tyres and longer fork travel compared to road bikes, more powerful motor and excellent brakes too.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/gran-camino

 

[Nealh]

One will never expect to get the quoted range from any ebike using max assist, one would have to be stupid to think so. Pulished figures are for lightweight fit person riidng in benign conditions on flat terrain or a velodrome.
Much like car mpg figures , EAPC range figures are to exacting test requirements.

Regarding travelling at 20mph one will have to add significant human power above 15.5mph to maintain any upper speed, if one is expecting an easy non effort ride above the cut off then an EAPC is not the vehicle for you. One is bette roff buying a registered e moped or an ICE moped.

 

[saneagle]

Throttles are not illegal. I think you're getting confused by misinformation. For a legal pedal assisted bicycle, the power must stop when you stop pedalling unless you're less than 4 mph. As long as it does that, you can have ten throttles if you want.

To pedal at 20 mph on a flat road without assisted power is asking a lot. You might be able to do it on a lightweight efficient bike with thin tyres, but not on an MTB or anything like that. The lightweight and efficient ebikes tend to have low power. You won't be able to do it on any folding bike with small wheels.

Your best chance of getting what you want is to get a cheapish used 250w 36v typical Chinese bike and swap the battery and controller for 48v ones, or look on Ebay or Amazon for 250w 48v ebikes.

 

[Woosh]

Your best chance of getting what you want is to get a cheapish used 250w 36v typical Chinese bike

he's got a budget of up to £3,000. What can you build for that sort of money?

budget for the bike is up to £3k

 

[saneagle]

he's got a budget of up to £3,000. What can you build for that sort of money?

If he wants to spend that much, any hybrid type ebike with a Bosch or Yamaha motor would meet his requirements.

 

[Woosh]

seriously, what can you build for say half that, £1500? or how much would you have to spend DIY to match the performance of a £3k ready made bike?

 

[georgehenry]

This would do the trick, at £1,799, I am sure there are others.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/products/electric-bike-haibike-trekking-4-2022-mid-yamaha?variant=42482862194926

Sophisticated, powerful and reliable torque sensor Yamaha crank drive motor coupled to a 500Wh battery. Put it in high assist and a low gear and it will ghost pedal up very steep hills.

Hydraulic brakes.

9 speed transmission

I think at over 100kg, riding in a hilly area, a crank drive motor would be best and the zero cadence Yamaha system means you get assistance as soon as your weight the pedal.

All electric bikes are harder to pedal with no assistance but I have found my Yamaha powered hard tail mountain bike pedals very well with no assistance with seemingly no resistance added by the motor.

This bike also comes with Lights mudguards and rack.

 

[Woosh]

That motor is only rated 60NM. Would that be enough for a heavy riders with steep gradients?

 

[georgehenry]

This sounds very similar to the motor fitted to my 2015 Yamaha powered Haibike. Mine climbs very well and I am over 100Kg and always have panniers with me. When I bought it, it was one of the most powerful. How things change. However I think it performs better than its numbers might indicate. There were complaints at the time that it did not keep delivering its power at higher pedal cadences. But a bit like a dirt bike motor it delivers its power from the off and pushes hard in lower to mid cadences, great for climbing, and you can use your gears to keep it at its most effective point. I have never encountered a hill on tarmac it could not climb, but have on occasion found its limit off road. Like I said there maybe many others, but for the money this struck me as good value.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

There are other more powerful bikes - eg Woosh Camino, Wisper Tailwind and Wisper 905 that will give you more assistance up hills. (Woosh and Wisper have good customer service and support reputations and are based in the UK)

Thanks Peter, we also have the Wayfarer that runs a 43V system and is even more powerful than the Tailwind. A great hill climber. At the moment it is on offer due to overstocking at a huge 20% discount from our dealers. (Including Sevenoaks Electrics Bikes!)

All the best, David

 

[georgehenry]

That bike I linked is at that price to clear the stock and fine if its the right size for you, but only the smaller size available. At that price there had to be a reason!

 

[soundwave]

with mid drive motors like mine stamped 15 mph is a bit misleading as under this speed my bike can use as much power as it can under that speed or it would be useless going up any hill.

i have seen Yamaha motors with a wattage meter in-between the batt and motor with a dongle fitted and can pull 700w but it maxed out at 90rpm i think.

my bike has a 120rpm limit and 75nm and with a dongle and new batt i got 39.6mph on the flat at that rpm with 300w coming from my legs and 79% motor power and my legs 21% but that cant be right lol.

just get a bbs hd it pisses all over me easy to fix and cheap big batts and 26inc decent wheels and forks are cheap these days.

 

[guerney]

I don't care if it's assisted only up to 15.5mph but if so would like to be able to pedal up to like 20mph.

My 20" wheeled Dahon folding 250W 36V BBS01B conversion used to do that and more on flat road, during the brief time it was de-restricted, when I didn't know it was illegal... but it does sound like you'd prefer a torque sensored motor system, which rules the BBS01B on 20" wheels out. Besides, the BBS01B has a high resistance to pedalling without electrical power. However, there are torque sensored motor conversion kits which others on this forum own/owned/used and can recommend - not all are as customisable.

So my requirements for a new E-bike would be something that can get up hills 10-12% and is surely allowed.

No problem for my bike. 43 miles of real world range over mixed terrain on max assist is good too, thanks to a 19.2Ah battery. A big battery also helps get you up hills.

budget for the bike is up to £3k

@AndyBike would burn through that budget fast on just the brakes, a couple of bearings, and half a washer!