Carrera Crossfuse (Active Line Plus) struggling with hills

[Bonzo Banana]

the word 'scale' as in 'they scale the motor support' is a good choice of word.
however, 4 (or more often 5) basic power levels are perfectly good for what we need because within each power level, you can control theoretically between 0% to 100% by varying your input.
There is no real need for more levels. What you want is the maximum power the motor can give is high enough for your toughest hill.

I guess my real point if I explained it better was the benefit of the torque sensors in both some motor-hubs and mid-drive units that match your power more where as a basic cadence sensor on budget ebikes is more of a on/off switch so you only have 4 or 5 power levels unless you also have a throttle control. I think this is why many mid-drive motors achieve a greater range as you can reduce the power to a minimum on flats to give a very subtle level of assistance that takes very little out of the battery.

However my own preference is a geared hub as I feel that can be the most efficient of all because when switched off the hub can efficiently freewheel for flats and downhill without power at all and makes the issue of no charge far less of an issue than direct drive and mid-drive units as long as you have a good spread of gears. I realise some mid-drive units do have minimal drag when unpowered in many of the newer models but still seems higher drag than most geared hubs from what I've read.

 

[Amoto65]

There is no drag with the ALP motor in the Crossfuse, I find no problem maintaining between 19 and 22mph on flat roads the transition is seamless between the motor and human power.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

There is no drag with the ALP motor in the Crossfuse, I find no problem maintaining between 19 and 22mph on flat roads the transition is seamless between the motor and human power.

I know it varies a lot on mid-drive motors and in fact when you look at the internals of mid-drive motors the designs are often very different. The newer Bosch models are much better than the older ones. With regard motor hubs its like the direct drive hubs always have a lot of drag and the geared motor hubs always have none or very minimal but mid-drive its really about the internal design.

I made a comment on another forum and stated its easy with a front wheel motor hub to simply have a spare standard wheel and if you want to return the bike to a normal bike just remove the battery and swop the front wheel and it's pretty much back to a normal bike if you are riding a long distance without chance of recharging etc and a person replied stating didn't even bother to remove the front motor hub, took it for all-day touring and didn't care the geared motor hub was there not something you would say of direct drive motor hubs or many mid-drive motors. Personally I would be worried someone would nick the front wheel so probably would have swopped wheels anyway but could certainly see his point.

 

[Darren Hayward]

Woosh has raised a good point.
Hub motors are expressed as the torque delivered to the rear wheel. This is primarily because, being ungeared, the motor torque and delivered torque are (effectively) the same.
Mid drive motors are expressed as the torque the motor produces. Bosch state the motor delivers this torque (to the rear wheel) in a 'mid gear', apparently meaning a gear ratio of 1:1. This is why mid drive motors are more efficient. The power is delivered through the bikes gears. The torque my bike delivers to the rear wheel at a ratio of 42:32 is higher than that at 1:1 and higher than the bottom gear ratio of 42:38 that it came with.
Having had a front wheel hub bike for 6 years and a Mid drive for a year I can say that the power delivered by the front hub is more consistent and its 'easier' to ride with a cadence controlled motor. The mid drive is far more powerful/efficient and the more variable power use gives massively more range. Almost double in fact. But I do have to 'ride' it and think about what I'm doing a bit more. No more just turning the pedals over and letting the motor do all the work on the flat. I loved my front hub for a long time but now I want to ride farther and go up steeper hills the mid drive is king.

Back to the original problem. The Crossfuse should be doing better than what is being described. Take it back to the shop. I'd try to get a test ride on another Crossfuse to compare them if possible but certainly something seems wrong.

Darren

 

[MikeS]

I had a Crossfire and changed it for a Crossfuse. My feeling is that the Crossfuse is slightly less powerful at climbing steepish hills. Both of them fail on many of the hills I tried in the Pennines and in The Cleveland Hills. As others have said if you can't pedal up a steep hill at least reasonably fast (cadence) then the Crossfuse is not going to provide you with sufficient power. I have developed a technique of going up these steep hills in a snaking S shaped path, so I can keep pedalling reasonably quickly. You do have to keep an eye out for oncoming traffic though.
Bottom gear is not low enough for the steepest hills even in turbo mode and I am thinking of swapping the cassette from 11-34 to 12-36, but I need to check what length chain is then needed.
Mike

 

[sjpt]

Bottom gear is not low enough for the steepest hills even in turbo mode and I am thinking of swapping the cassette from 11-34 to 12-36, but I need to check what length chain is then needed.

I doubt a change from 34 to 36 will make a significant difference. If it is possible I should look into a smaller chainwheel at the motor.

Looks as if they come in 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 22 teeth sizes, might depend what age and exactly which Bosch motor you have.

 

[Gringo]

I doubt a change from 34 to 36 will make a significant difference. If it is possible I should look into a smaller chainwheel at the motor.

Looks as if they come in 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 22 teeth sizes, might depend what age and exactly which Bosch motor you have.

Looks like you are getting your Bosch motors mixed up, the ALP motor in the crossfuse has a 42t chainring. My cube with the alp motor had a 38t chainring and I’ve recently replaced the worn drive line with a 42t chainring and an 11-42 cassette. With such a wide range cassette there’s a bigger ratio step between gears but it’s not a deal breaker and a small price to pay for a faster road speed and still have the off-road climbing abilities.

 

[chadallan]

Hi Ive got the Carrera vengeance and I have the same problems with the hills especially as im 62, after trying all sorts to to fix the problem adding a cirquit board etc ive just ordered a front wheel conversion which is 1000w motor and controller, so ill have the rear pedal assist for the back and a twist throttle for the front to use when I hit the hills, job done!

 

[Amoto65]

Hi Ive got the Carrera vengeance and I have the same problems with the hills especially as im 62, after trying all sorts to to fix the problem adding a cirquit board etc ive just ordered a front wheel conversion which is 1000w motor and controller, so ill have the rear pedal assist for the back and a twist throttle for the front to use when I hit the hills, job done!

Apart from being illegal this sounds pretty much overkill.