Cheap kit to make a big hill feel like a small hill?

[tpw]

Hi, I work for a Deliveroo, and I deliver in a town where the student campus is on top of a big hill. I have a bad back and I can only go up that hill 2 or 3 times before it gets painful, so I'm looking for an ebike kit that will help make this big hill feel more like a small hill (I'm about 75kg).

I'm not looking for something to whizz me up without any effort (I like that my job makes me
exercise!) and I will only be using it on the hill and nowhere else. The hill is half a mile long and about 11-12% gradient; I go up it max 8 times per shift

I'm looking for the cheapest and simplest kit that meets these requirements, but I would like it to be from a UK company for both speed of delivery and warranty purposes. I think I've decided on a front hub motor due to ease of installation and price, I think this should give me the level of assistance I'm looking for (but please let me know if I'm wrong!). I would also like a bottle battery for simple mounting and just a simple throttle, no PAS or LED screens etc.

I know a mid drive is preferable for hill climbing, but they are more expensive, harder to install
and from what I've gathered you lose your front deraiulleur which, since I want to ride my bike
normally everywhere other than this hill, would be too big a disadvantage.

These are my thoughts on the options I’ve found so far, please let me know if I’ve missed any

Panda pro 250w kit
Read some bad things about their customer service, although it seems to have mostly been last year. However the lack of a phone number on their website doesn't reassure me. Kit doesn't come with a throtttle, and ones on their website are out of stock (don't know if if other throttles will be compatible?)

Cyclotricty 250w kit
Again, read some stuff about bad customer service, also read that it doesn't come with a charger?
Powerbikes sell this kit and it comes out cheaper with a bottle battery, I've also read good things about their customer service, however there’s no mention of warranty on their website?

woosh 25" XF07
Read good things about customer service, comes with throttle and bottle battery, but more expensive. I don't think this is due to bad value, just that it comes with more than I need

Any advice or corrections appreciated, thank you!

 

[sjpt]

Check for legality, especially if you have a throttle and no PAS. You are unlikely to get caught unless you have an accident; but could be trouble if you did and the police check out the details. We are happy with the XF07 on the front of a tandem; on level 3 of 5 most of the time, 3 of 5 for hills. We've got a throttle but don't use it.

 

[Woosh]

how heavy are you?

 

[tpw]

Check for legality, especially if you have a throttle and no PAS.

Oh interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I think I won't worry about it for the short term since I really need to get something ASAP, but I will definitely try and find a way to make it legal once it's all set up. Maybe there exists some kind of throtlle cut off if the pedals aren't turning? I really don't want PAS

We are happy with the XF07 on the front of a tandem; on level 3 of 5 most of the time, 3 of 5 for hills.

This sounds promising, could you tell me the grades of the hills you've used it on? Or where they are on a map so I can work it out?

how heavy are you?

About 75kg, bike's about 15kg inc lock, and then I have my Deliveroo bag which varies from maybe 3-7kg?

 

[sjpt]

We've used it on hills up to about 10%, 1 in 10 ... I think a little steeper at the steepest part. White's Hill, Owselbury.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whites+Hill,+Owslebury,+Winchester/@51.0082179,-1.276257,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487412cdc6bb9b63:0x6d611e3916f1d2a9!8m2!3d51.00946!4d-1.2766003?hl=en

We do need to use the low gear and work fairly hard ... with the motor we can do it, without we can't. I think you are less than 65/71 years old?

Are you in Bath? The hills are a lot longer there than here, and probably a little bit steeper.

Woosh a really helpful, and don't want to sell you something that won't be right for you.

 

[D C]

I have dealt with all three and in my experience Woosh are top of the list by miles and have great after sales.
Dave.

 

[John_S]

In order for a converted bike to be legal, you have to get your bike verified as being compliant with SI 1168 by the Vehicle Inspectorate. It is very, very difficult to get a converted bike verified as such, and virtually no owners of converted bikes even attempt to do so.

Riding a non-verified converted bike means that you risk prosecution if you were to be involved in an accident and your bike was then inspected, although if after the fact you could verify that your bike complies with SI 1168, you will likely have good mitigating circumstances, which cannot be said for somebody who is facing prosecution after riding a converted bike that cannot comply with SI 1168, such as a 1000w direct drive that goes 30+ mph.

 

[Benjahmin]

A throttle that will operate without the need to rotate the pedals (called a twist and go) is illegal. It doesn't matter that you would probably be peddling. In order for the control system to sense the pedals turning you need the pas disc and sensor. This way the throttle will only operate when peddles are turning.
But here's a thing for you. I have a bike with the Panda front hub. Get the basic with the LED handlebar control. On this you can select either low, medium or high assist, but more usefully for you, you can also turn it off. So turn on for hill, turn off otherwise. Fit PAS and be powered up the hill. Don't fit the throttle (save weight) and be 100% legal.
The Panda motor Assists easily to the legal cutoff on the flat. I find it to be not the most torquey hill climber, but adequate. Below around 8.5-9mph, on hills, it does start to get a bit noisy. Climbing a steep hill at around 6mph it starts to sound a bit like a milk float. But a good basic kit, easy to fit. I found Panda reasonably responsive to e-mail questions, though this was about 2 years ago.
Haven't used an XF07, but my wife has a Big Bear and Woosh's customer service is top notch.

 

[tpw]

Damn, guess I will have to get pas and screen then - turning it on just for the hills does seem like a good compromise

We've used it on hills up to about 10%, 1 in 10 ... I think a little steeper at the steepest part. White's Hill, Owselbury.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whites+Hill,+Owslebury,+Winchester/@51.0082179,-1.276257,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x487412cdc6bb9b63:0x6d611e3916f1d2a9!8m2!3d51.00946!4d-1.2766003?hl=en

We do need to use the low gear and work fairly hard ... with the motor we can do it, without we can't. I think you are less than 65/71 years old?

I'm 30 and am definitely physically able to get up the hill, but unfortunately I seem to have the lower back of an 80 year old and so need a way to get up without too much strain. The hill in question is Penglais hill in Aberystwyth, which does seem to be a bit steeper than yours (12% compared to 8%), but I don't know what affect two people have on the effectiveness of the motor.

I guess I'll be phoning Woosh tomorrow to ask their advice, thank you for all the replies

Btw, I don't suppose anyone knows the torque ratings for the Cyclotricity motor (or the model number) or the Woosh XF07?

 

[John_S]

A throttle that will operate without the need to rotate the pedals (called a twist and go) is illegal. It doesn't matter that you would probably be peddling. In order for the control system to sense the pedals turning you need the pas disc and sensor. This way the throttle will only operate when peddles are turning.
But here's a thing for you. I have a bike with the Panda front hub. Get the basic with the LED handlebar control. On this you can select either low, medium or high assist, but more usefully for you, you can also turn it off. So turn on for hill, turn off otherwise. Fit PAS and be powered up the hill. Don't fit the throttle (save weight) and be 100% legal.
The Panda motor Assists easily to the legal cutoff on the flat. I find it to be not the most torquey hill climber, but adequate. Below around 8.5-9mph, on hills, it does start to get a bit noisy. Climbing a steep hill at around 6mph it starts to sound a bit like a milk float. But a good basic kit, easy to fit. I found Panda reasonably responsive to e-mail questions, though this was about 2 years ago.
Haven't used an XF07, but my wife has a Big Bear and Woosh's customer service is top notch.

All converted bikes are actually illegal, unless the owner gets the bike verified as being compliant with SI 1168 by the Vehicle Inspectorate.

Damn, guess I will have to get pas and screen then - turning it on just for the hills does seem like a good compromise



I'm 30 and am definitely physically able to get up the hill, but unfortunately I seem to have the lower back of an 80 year old and so need a way to get up without too much strain. The hill in question is Penglais hill in Aberystwyth, which does seem to be a bit steeper than yours (12% compared to 8%), but I don't know what affect two people have on the effectiveness of the motor.

I guess I'll be phoning Woosh tomorrow to ask their advice, thank you for all the replies

Btw, I don't suppose anyone knows the torque ratings for the Cyclotricity motor (or the model number) or the Woosh XF07?

Would you consider a rear drive? The 48v rear SWX02 kit from Woosh will have much better hill climbing that either the Cyclotricity or the Woosh XF07 kit. It is worth considering I'd say.

 

[Benjahmin]

All converted bikes are actually illegal, unless the owner gets the bike verified as being compliant with SI 1168 by the Vehicle Inspectorate.

That's a new one on me. Where's that from? Got a link, what does it say?
My take is that we're talking pedal cycle here, so not a motor vehicle and the 250w continuous power limit and speed limit, by definition, keep it so.

To the OP. You don't necessarily need an lcd screen. The less tech version is a simple led device with on, off buttons, power level and charge indicators. Just turn it on, turn the peddles and you've got power. Just turn it off when you're on the flat.

 

[John_S]

That's a new one on me. Where's that from? Got a link, what does it say?
My take is that we're talking pedal cycle here, so not a motor vehicle and the 250w continuous power limit and speed limit, by definition, keep it so.

To the OP. You don't necessarily need an lcd screen. The less tech version is a simple led device with on, off buttons, power level and charge indicators. Just turn it on, turn the peddles and you've got power. Just turn it off when you're on the flat.

I read it in several different threads on these forums. An old user whose name was Jeremy mentioned it in a lot of his posts. According to him, in order for a converted bike to be legal, there are two statutory instruments that it needs to be verified as complying with, SI-1168 and SI-1176. Jeremy was someone who was very well informed on e-bike law. Two other highly regarded old users of these forums, D8veh and Trex, also stated in some of their posts that virtually all converted bikes are technically illegal. None of these guys post on here anymore. Jeremy's posts were from 2012, and so it is possible the law could have changed between then and now. However, D8veh mentioned this issue in a post less than a year ago if I recall correctly.

If you were to be involved in an accident after riding a non-verified converted bike, it looks like you do run the risk of prosecution. However, if after the fact you could show that your bike complies with these two statutory instruments, you would likely have good mitigating circumstances. It could only be mitigation, however, because the law cannot be applied retrospectively.

 

[Hightechpete]

My advice would be to arrange a test ride with Halfords in Parc-Y-Llyn and ride from there to Penglais hill and back, you'll be surprised. I'm not suggesting that you buy from Halfords, but it will give you an indication of performance.
In my experience (I also live in hilly Wales), there isn't a huge difference between 250watt motors and any of the kits you mentioned will do the job.
Pete.

 

[Nealh]

S.I. 1983/1168 is now updated as S.I 2015/24.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/pdfs/uksi_20150024_en.pdf

 

[John_S]

S.I. 1983/1168 is now updated as S.I 2015/24.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/24/pdfs/uksi_20150024_en.pdf

Does that mean that a kit with a 250w motor and a speed limit of 15mph is legal by default without the owner needing to go through any additional process of verification themselves?

 

[Benjahmin]

Well, I dunno. I read it and it doesn't mention kits or, as far as I can see, any need for testing. I got a certificate showing compliance with EN 15194 with my kit. But that's for EMC compliance.
I'm sure that if ya dig far enough there'll be a regulation making breathing illegal

 

[Nealh]

Does that mean that a kit with a 250w motor and a speed limit of 15mph is legal by default without the owner needing to go through any additional process of verification themselves?

No idea as mentioned kits aren't detailed.
But guess if it wasn't legal Woosh wouldn't be fitting legal kits to owners own bikes.