Conversion costs

portals

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 15, 2022
396
121
You confuse 250W rated power limit with speed limit. At this moment you can buy perfectly legal 250W e-bike capable to ride at 20-30mph. It is 15.5mph limit that restricts maximum assisted
I get the limiting to 15.5mph however can a 250W motor with no limiting on controller really provide enough torque to get a bike+rider up to 22mph never mind 30mph and maintain that speed not at peak current draw? What about hills....?

Only really ever ridden my own ebike so have little to compare against.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
15,764
6,250
my bosch motor can pull 800w under the speed limit with a 20a controller, it wont climb hills any faster tho
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,683
30,273
I get the limiting to 15.5mph however can a 250W motor with no limiting on controller really provide enough torque to get a bike+rider up to 22mph never mind 30mph and maintain that speed not at peak current draw? What about hills....?
When the Speed Pedelec class was first introduced in Germany they exactly used the same 250 watt motors, often in the same bikes, but without restriction. On the flat in still air they commonly managed to cruise at about 33 kph (20.5mph).

Eventually they were permitted to have up to 500 watt rating to be able to achieve their legally allowed maximum of 45 kph (28mph). However the manufacturers have settled on 350 watt ratings as the best compromise for achieving that performance with acceptable range.
.
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
1,061
468
Hyrdraulic disc brakes have excellent modulation
Some hydraulic brakes have good modulation, Hope for example are so modulation orientated some riders find them initially difficult to get on with, leading some to think the Tech2,3 werent powerful enough, but it is ,which Hope at least a case of to get the full stopping power you needed to honk on them harder than others.
Shimano on the other hand, XT, saints especially, are more a powerful initial bite.

Cant say anything about the braking characteristics of others - Sram, Magura, hayes as I've never used them. I am and have always been a Hope user so Im more attuned to how they feel. Dabbled in Shimano(XT/XTR/Saint), but prefer Hope as those are very serviceable

Sheer power wise its always been trickstuff, but at between £900-£1300 a bikes worth, they're more the top end DH/Enduro/EMTB offroad type

There has been a copy of Trickstuff recently released by the name of Lewis brakes. They're touted to be similar to Trickstuff Maxima but only about £500(similar price/power to Hope T4 V4's) But Lewis are new to the game and while theres plenty of positive reviews, I think its only fair once theres some long term reviews in there also.
 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
The front, installed at the same time as the now horrifying rear rim, isn't nearly as worn yet. I'm not looking forward to sourcing a replacment, because 28H with at least 17mm inner rim width dual walled 20" rims aren't common, neither are 20" wheels with 74mm axles :rolleyes:


56197


Nothing wrong with that Dude, it has loads of life left on it. (That's a joke by the way, sarcasm does count as humour).

Here is my worn out rear wheel, purchased new in December 2022. I'm looking for a replacement that is a bit wider than the current 19 m.m.
View attachment 56181
Aaaarrrgghh I can't unsee that!


my bosch motor can pull 800w under the speed limit with a 20a controller, it wont climb hills any faster tho
You need more power!


That's because the front rim brake might grab and send you over the handlebars, and you cannot brake fast enough using that method. It's completely the wrong way to brake efficiently if you have decent brakes. Nobody, who knows how to ride a motorbike, would do that. For efficient braking you need to transfer weight onto a tyre to increase the coefficient of friction. You can't do that with the back brake, which is why it skids so easily. In fact, the torque from the back brake transfers weight to the front wheel, which reduces the friction at the back and makes it skid. The idea is to put weight on the front wheel by applying the front brake either slightly first or at the same time as the back one. That's why brakes with good modulation are so important and rim brakes can't be recommended. Without modulation, that becomes more dangerous.

Note that much of the online advice about braking on a bicycle is out of date because it's in the frame of reference of grabby rim brakes.
That rear rim was destroyed stopping heavy bike trailers, amazed it lasted as long as it did TBH. I've been activating the front brake first and almost exclusively of late, while sourcing a new rear wheel or rim.


I witnessed a slow speed accident today at Lidl car park. Driver of a van was reversing and didn't notice a cyclist. Cyclist tried to stop, but lost control on wet surface and fell while driver kept on reversing. Luckily only bike ended up under wheels.

Good brakes are critical. A few inches might be a difference between life and death.
It's best to assume you're invisible as a cyclist. Rim or disc, sounds like only ABS would have helped in that situation? That and bloody bright flashing bike lights highly visible in daylight.


56189
 
Last edited:

Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
994
433
Plymouth
It's best to assume you're invisible as a cyclist. Rim or disc, sounds like only ABS would have helped in that situation? That and bloody bright flashing bike lights highly visible in daylight.
I watched in horror when driver kept on reversing. I thought cyclist was under, but luckily I was wrong. Yes, driver said "I didn't see him", but he was in a van, well above other cars, so he just didn't look I think.
 
Last edited:

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
That's weird, I said this but somehow the forum has quoted @portals in @Az. 's post.

56191


It's best to assume you're invisible as a cyclist. Rim or disc, sounds like only ABS would have helped in that situation? That and bloody bright flashing bike lights highly visible in daylight.

I watched in horror when driver kept on reversing. I thought cyclist was under, but luckily I was wrong. Yes, driver said "I didn't see him", but he was in a van, well above other cars, so he just didn't look I think.
Drivers can fail to recognise seeing a cyclist, even while directly looking at you, and that's why I got bloody bright lights! I keep one flashing and two constant during the day. All three flashing is too discombobulating to behold, even for me, but would make my bike even more daylight visible to all and sundry.

A couple of weeks ago, I walked down my driveway and immediately witnessed a cyclist almost get flattened by a car at a T junction down the road - big SUV, daylight. That doesn't happen to me anymore. Cyclist was wearing a camouflage jacket and camouflage baseball cap, swerved and shouted "WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!" His bike didn't have bloody bright lights.
 
Last edited:

Peter.Bridge

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
536
245
I do keep my front light on during the day (its connected to the battery output) as per motorbikes - think this must help
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
At night my bike is mistaken for a motorcycle by drivers at junctions, and they wait for ages before I get there... to slowly pedal past at 15.5mph. That alone is well worth the cost of about £42 total for my three headlights, plus some solder.
 
Last edited:

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,418
1,640
69
West Wales
Some years ago I saw a programme about WW2 tanks being fitted with bright lights as camouflage? They showed that when a tank pulled onto the ridge line of a hill, to fire onto lower ground, bright lights actually broke up the recognisable outline of the tanks making them harder to recognise against a bright sky backdrop.
This leads me to believe that a daytime flashing light is a more effective attention grabber than a constant light - no matter how bright.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
Some years ago I saw a programme about WW2 tanks being fitted with bright lights as camouflage? They showed that when a tank pulled onto the ridge line of a hill, to fire onto lower ground, bright lights actually broke up the recognisable outline of the tanks making them harder to recognise against a bright sky backdrop.
This leads me to believe that a daytime flashing light is a more effective attention grabber than a constant light - no matter how bright.
I keep one flashing "1800LM" on during the day, the other "1800LM" and "2400LM" constant, and that does work. I worry all three flashing rapidly at different rates could be illegal, or accused of being illegal.

At night drivers also see my hi viz blouson, or down filled hiviz yellowy green jacket illuminated by this Bafang headlight (useless as a headlight BTW) pointed backwards from my handlebar, directly at me - helps solve the lack of recognition at night problem... and because hiviz reflective is only that when there's light to reflect. I'm certainly not going to wait until I'm lit up by the headlights of a car/bus/lorry/van etc.

56198


By the way, a good physio can give you exercises to rectify incorrect curvature of your lower spine, which prevents you from using the bucket seat of your eRecumbent. Your GP should be able to give you a referral. Intervention now could prevent possible sciatic nerve problems further down the road. Bit of a shame going to all that effort buying and converting a recumbent, and not being able to use it.
 

Waspy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 8, 2012
286
77



I bought one of these back in the Nineties, it was one of the first Bandit 600s in the country. It was the first and only brand new bike I ever bought. I got it from Peter Hammond's in Cirencester. I used to ride BSAs with drum brakes that were next to useless.

Look at the brakes on the Suzuki, two large hydraulic disk brakes on the front and a single, smaller disk on the back.

There is a reason for that, the front brake is by far the most important brake, and the more powerful brake on the front sends no one over the handlebars.

That front brake saved my life one day.

The idea of going back to drum brakes on a motorbike would never be considered by any manufacturer, not in a million years, not even on 50cc scooters.

I have to say that I am a recent convert to hydraulic disk brakes on my e-bike thanks to advice received on this forum. I bought a budget Shimano hydraulic front brake for £30 and the difference was night and day. I intend to change the rear brake come spring when the weather gets better. I am a fair weather cyclist.
 

mark sutton

Pedelecer
Apr 25, 2016
48
73
36
For those opting to stay within the legal framework of an e-bike and on the original poster's question about costs (but not power) here's a guide comparing conversion kits.

As someone concerned, please don't overpower your bicycles with these over-powered kits - the original bike is not designed for the forces you're putting through it. The high-power kit and rim brake pic from earlier in the thread made me wince. I can tell you from experience replacement teeth are expensive.
 

Bonzo Banana

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2019
729
427
I think you'll agree that some things are better or more suitable than others, and that goes for brakes as with any component on the bike.

The Carrera Vulcan is what is best described as a low end bicycle. Not cheapo catalog special, but low priced none the less. Retails at about £450
(And probably find its wholesale price is well under 200)

The brakes on it retail at 50 quid for an entire bikes worth inc the rotors. Thats not a lot when you think that its your life thats at stake.
The Clarks Clout brakes seem decent for the money and reviewed quite well for off-road use and the Vulcan has a 180mm front rotor too. Trek charge £500 for a mountain bike with basic mechanical disc brakes and to get a bike with a similar spec to the Vulcan you probably would have to pay £800 or more. As for safety the Trek model has a basic freewheel which could easily break the quick release if used off-road and forks with only 28mm stanchions, the vulcan appears to be 30mm stanchions so significantly stronger. I don't get the criticism for the Vulcan as it enables you to get a much safer stronger mountain bike than many of the its competitors for significantly less money. Despite the huge sales of Carreras they haven't had the frame recall history of many other brands like Decathlon for example, where Rockriders had to be recalled for breaking frames some only weeks old.

Also V brakes can be good I mean they were used for competitive off-road cycling for many years. Well setup with decent pads they can perform well and of course if you have an ebike with regen braking like a direct drive hub motor you get a third braking system and many people find their brake pads hardly get worn at all as the V brakes are backup brakes to the regen braking for general riding and non-emergency braking.

 

Benjahmin

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 10, 2014
2,418
1,640
69
West Wales
By the way, a good physio can give you exercises to rectify incorrect curvature of your lower spine, which prevents you from using the bucket seat of your eRecumbent. Your GP should be able to give you a referral. Intervention now could prevent possible sciatic nerve problems further down the road. Bit of a shame going to all that effort buying and converting a recumbent, and not being able to use it.
G.P. ? Yeh, I vaguely remeber those. Last I heard it was 3-4 weeks to get an appointment and then it's,'Here have these pain killers'. I think the word referral translated into welsh means - 3 weeks after you die.
A combination of excercise(swimming, cycling,walking, pilates) and sports therapy massage along with buying a lighter mitre saw (?) means I am now pain free.
Building up strength and will take out the recumbent, onto flatter roads, as the weather improves. As I live where even the flat bits are steep, this will mean putting the bike in the van and travelling.
I think I challenged myself too early trying to get up a hill I know I can do on the upright. Meeting a skittish horse near the top, having to stop then do a hill start didn't help. All the force comes back through the leg, into your hip then onto the back of the seat. There is, of course, no extra assistance from ones weight standing on the pedal. Maybe it's just not a machine for steep hills?
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
A combination of excercise(swimming, cycling,walking, pilates) and sports therapy massage along with buying a lighter mitre saw (?) means I am now pain free.
All good for strengthening the Transversus Abdominis, cause of much lower back pain.

 

aardvark5

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 25, 2014
267
83
65
ST3 Blurton
Around 2015 I had a 1000 watt motor but only kept it on for a month, it was too fast for the MTB I was using and scared me several times.
Also I've been stopped 3 times on my 250 watts to see if they're legal and they are or OK with the Police.
I do have thumb throttles on both bikes but I explained I had them back around 2011/2012 so no problem.
To be honest both bikes are now like Triggers Brush with everything changed except the thumb throttles :)
A work colleagues husband recently spent around £3000 on a 1000 watt bike and had it confiscated 4 days later.