Conversion kit to make an e bike.

[Simon Lightning]

Hello all
I am considering getting a front hub ebike conversion kit. The bicycle I am considering getting secondhand as a doner is something like a Dawes Karakum or Dawes Mojave ( although a 7 to 11 speed rear hub gear system would also be looked at).
Has anyone got any recommendations:
1) for a supplier of kits that they know are reliable and give good after sales back up.
2)a more suitable bike for conversion
I am in Norfolk, England.
Thanks in advance for any helpful thoughts.

 

[saneagle]

Front motor is not very nice. Fit a rear or middle one if you can.

When you have a motor, you don't really need anything special as a donor bike other than disc brakes and a place to mount the battery. The kit can be put into a bike and taken out, so if there's something about your donor bike you don't like and can't upgrade, you can get another one that meets your needs and transplant the kit.

You need to tell us about yourself and what you expect the bike to do if you want any meaningful recommendations, as every bike and kit has different characteristics.

 

[sjpt]

You haven't said what sort of riding you expect to do. Front hub is fine for many situations, especially where it is fairly flat. You could look at mid motor or rear (as long as you don't decide on hub gears).

I'd recommend Woosh for the kit. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits
Exactly matches

1) for a supplier of kits that they know are reliable and give good after sales back up.

(In case you were wondering, Swytch does not fit that.)

Also look at https://www.amazon.co.uk/F-lli-Schiano-Womens-Moon-Bike/dp/B09VLGZTMD/ and similar ready built bikes (they have top tube as well as step-through models). I don't know, but I suspect the controller is less good that you'd get with (say) the Woosh XF07 kit.

 

[Bikes4two]

There'll be a lot of options coming up in this post so I'll not be adding to all that.

Alternatively I'd advise AGAINST Swytch (long lead time and CS comes in for a lot of stick) and Cytronex (similar comments re CS and rather pricey for what it is).

EDIT - and just to add that both those kits have small batteries giving limited assistance/range compared to most other kit offerings.

That's just an opinion of course and others may disagree.

 

[Simon Lightning]

Front motor is not very nice. Fit a rear or middle one if you can.

When you have a motor, you don't really need anything special as a donor bike other than disc brakes and a place to mount the battery. The kit can be put into a bike and taken out, so if there's something about your donor bike you don't like and can't upgrade, you can get another one that meets your needs and transplant the kit.

You need to tell us about yourself and what you expect the bike to do if you want any meaningful recommendations, as every bike and kit has different characteristics.

Thanks for the advice. I will be using the e bike just for short trips, no steep hills. I thought a front hub motor saves all the power going through the chain/sprockets and gives two wheel drive in effect.Is there a disadvantage to front hubs?

 

[Simon Lightning]

There'll be a lot of options coming up in this post so I'll not be adding to all that.

Alternatively I'd advise AGAINST Swytch (long lead time and CS comes in for a lot of stick) and Cytronex (similar comments re CS and rather pricey for what it is).

That's just an opinion of course and others may disagree.

Thank you. Have you any thoughts about Yose Power conversions?

 

[Simon Lightning]

You haven't said what sort of riding you expect to do. Front hub is fine for many situations, especially where it is fairly flat. You could look at mid motor or rear (as long as you don't decide on hub gears).

I'd recommend Woosh for the kit. https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits
Exactly matches

(In case you were wondering, Swytch does not fit that.)

Also look at https://www.amazon.co.uk/F-lli-Schiano-Womens-Moon-Bike/dp/B09VLGZTMD/ and similar ready built bikes (they have top tube as well as step-through models). I don't know, but I suspect the controller is less good that you'd get with (say) the Woosh XF07 kit.

Thank you, the Amazon bike did look the sort of item that would be suitable for me. I'm just looking for as basic a model as possible, for example I don't need a quick release seat ( easy to steal) , I do worry that there would be no dealer back up.

 

[Simon Lightning]

There'll be a lot of options coming up in this post so I'll not be adding to all that.

Alternatively I'd advise AGAINST Swytch (long lead time and CS comes in for a lot of stick) and Cytronex (similar comments re CS and rather pricey for what it is).

That's just an opinion of course and others may disagree.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Bikes4two]

Thank you. Have you any thoughts about Yose Power conversions?

I've no personal experience of Yose Power but from other's posting on this forum, I get the general impression that they are amongst the better choices.

As a geneal rule, conversion kits are made to a lowish price point and therefore it is not unreasonable for the odd problem to emerge. If you have any sort of inclination to 'fix things' then forums like this will be able to point you in the right direction to resolving issues.

Alternatively if you have no such inclination, you'll need to know where to go for support.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the advice. I will be using the e bike just for short trips, no steep hills. I thought a front hub motor saves all the power going through the chain/sprockets and gives two wheel drive in effect.Is there a disadvantage to front hubs?

When you fit a rear motor, there is no power going through the drive system. The downsides of a front motor are:

• Safety issues relating to drop-outs breaking. Not a problem with steel forks.
• Suspension compromised. The torque introduces friction in the bushes and the unsprung mass makes the ride more choppy. Not a problem with rigid forks.
• Steering is affected by the increased gyroscopic effect. You feel this worse on some bikes than others, depending on the steering geometry. The problem is that you can't tell how it will be until you've done it.
• Front motors are noisy because the sound comes to you. You don't hear a rear one.
• Lack of grip on steep hills. When you need it most, it loses traction and spins due to weight transfer to the back wheel.

The idea of two wheel drive is a non-starter. If grip is bad, a front motor will always spin. Nearly all the weight and traction is at the back. There are some circumstances where 2WD helps, but not in most normal riding.

A front motor works. My first ebike had one, and I did thousands of miles on it. It's just that a rear one is a lot better and I don't see any downsides at all.

 

[Simon Lightning]

I've no personal experience of Yose Power but from other's posting on this forum, I get the general impression that they are amongst the better choices.

As a geneal rule, conversion kits are made to a lowish price point and therefore it is not unreasonable for the odd problem to emerge. If you have any sort of inclination to 'fix things' then forums like this will be able to point you in the right direction to resolving issues.

Alternatively if you have no such inclination, you'll need to know where to go for support.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Simon Lightning]

When you fit a rear motor, there is no power going through the drive system. The downsides of a front motor are:

• Safety issues relating to drop-outs breaking. Not a problem with steel forks.
• Suspension compromised. The torque introduces friction in the bushes and the unsprung mass makes the ride more choppy. Not a problem with rigid forks.
• Steering is affected by the increased gyroscopic effect. You feel this worse on some bikes than others, depending on the steering geometry. The problem is that you can't tell how it will be until you've done it.
• Front motors are noisy because the sound comes to you. You don't hear a rear one.
• Lack of grip on steep hills. When you need it most, it loses traction and spins due to weight transfer to the back wheel.

The idea of two wheel drive is a non-starter. If grip is bad, a front motor will always spin. Nearly all the weight and traction is at the back. There are some circumstances where 2WD helps, but not in most normal riding.

A front motor works. My first ebike had one, and I did thousands of miles on it. It's just that a rear one is a lot better and I don't see any downsides at all.

Thank you for your clear and detailed reply--brilliant!

 

[Az.]

Yose is good value for money. Support is lacking and I had to buy few bits and pieces to install it properly, but after kit is installed it does the job well.

 

[sjpt]

A front motor works. My first ebike had one, and I did thousands of miles on it. It's just that a rear one is a lot better and I don't see any downsides at all.

At least two downsides.

You can't use hub gears with a rear hub motor.

2WD can help (front motor, rear rider). We've had several cases on our tandem where the rear has spun on slight uphill wet grass and the front has kept grip and pulled us away. Of course, weight distribution is different on a tandem than on a solo.

That said, for many (most) people a rear hub drive is preferable to a front one.

 

[saneagle]

Thank you for your clear and detailed reply--brilliant!

In case you're interested, here's why I don't like crank motors. Again, I have used them on my own bikes, not thousands of miles, but enough to figure it out.

• You have to be in the right gear all the time and change gear a lot, which makes riding more hectic than relaxing.
• They're generally not as reliable as hub-motors.
• Too much torque at low speed (low gear) unless you want to keep messing about turning the power up and down.
• The power going through the drive train accelerates wear, and if you mess up a gear change, you can damage something enough to leave you stranded.
• The ride is harsher
• They cost more and you get higher running costs because of more frequent replacement of chain and gears.

You have to balance that against their advantages:

• You can get very high torque for climbing steep hills
• The mass is more central for better handling, especially off-road.
• Rear suspension works better because you can have a light wheel.
• You can get any speed you want by altering your gearing.
• They're generally easier to fit, but you can get difficult problems to solve to do with chain alignment and type of bottom bracket.

Weighing up the pros and cons between a hub-motor and a crank one, you can see that each has advantages in particular circumstances. Generally, for commuting, shopping, touring and running around, a hub-motor wins, but if you want to do more serious off-road stuff, you have steep hills or you're very heavy, a crank motor wins. They all work. The differences aren't massive. You win when you get any of them.

On some bikes your choice can be limited by things like hub brakes, weird bottom brackets, weird frames, hub gears and things like that. You'd be surprised at the number of people that come on here with weird bikes that they want to convert. It's very rarely a standard bike with triangular frame and normal parts.

 

[guerney]

The power going through the drive train accelerates wear, and if you mess up a gear change, you can damage something enough to leave you stranded.

I did get a lot of crunching with my BBS01B conversion before I fitted the Bafang gear sensor, which works almost perfectly to disengage power before changing gear, but the time interval between power being disengaged and reapplied is fixed, can't be changed even in firmware, therefore for the one set of circumstances when it doesn't work perfectly, it can't be altered to suit: going up this incline in the rain, when the time interval isn't quite long enough:




The gear sensor, on my bike at least, works perfectly in dry weather ascending the same and similar inclines. Prior to installing the gear sensor, I got into the habit of touching the ebrake momentarily to cut motor power before changing gear, which was ok, but the gear sensor is a much better solution, has made changing gears a total no-brainer. For £20, the gear sensor is worth a punt, but it doesn't seem to work out well for all bikes, judging by reports from others on this forum.

The ride is harsher

My ride's super smooth. Being able to tweak the firmware helps a lot - I was on the verge of demanding a refund before I ironed out the BBS01B's annoying pre-programmed quirks as delivered. Super smooth aside from potholes.

 

[Bikes4two]

• I'm a well practiced touring cyclist with many thousands of miles done.
• I no longer tour but I've now been riding my TSDZ2 mid drive conversion for around 6000 miles.
• Personally I've never damaged any gears or fluffed gear changes, don't seem to change gears any more than when unassisted and drive train wear doesn't appear to be any more than before (but I do only ride with a low level of assistance).
• The ride experience for me is just about the same as in my unassisted days apart from now having bionic legs so to speak.
• However. I've never had a hub motor driven bike, so my experience with ebike systems is polorised.

 

[saneagle]

• I'm a well practiced touring cyclist with many thousands of miles done.
• I no longer tour but I've now been riding my TSDZ2 mid drive conversion for around 6000 miles.
• Personally I've never damaged any gears or fluffed gear changes, don't seem to change gears any more than when unassisted and drive train wear doesn't appear to be any more than before (but I do only ride with a low level of assistance).
• The ride experience for me is just about the same as in my unassisted days apart from now having bionic legs so to speak.
• However. I've never had a hub motor driven bike, so my experience with ebike systems is polorised.

That's because nothing has changed for you. As your legs got more tired, you compensated with a low-powered motor. As far as what your bike is experiencing, nothing has changed. What you're experiencing is going to be completely different to an unfit middle-aged guy, who hasn't cycled in years, has limited knowledge in how bikes work, and wants a bike to do his shopping or ride to work.

You have to be in the right gear when using an unassisted bike, so you're right that nothing changed, but if you had a hub-motored bike, you wouldn't have to change gear so often, if at all. You can pull away from a stop in top gear if you want. The torque from the motor is constant and independent of what you do with the pedals - that's the point.

 

[Nealh]

The Yose originally was a good kit when I first posted about them, back then they came with a kt controller and lcd3. For what ever reason a long the way they went with Lishui and this became an oem only bike for the controller side, as least with the KT one could simply get a kt part from anywhere.

 

[Simon Lightning]

Yose is good value for money. Support is lacking and I had to buy few bits and pieces to install it properly, but after kit is installed it does the job well.

Hi Thanks for you reply. Whoosh was recommended to me and the site had many clear pitures and lots of clear advice. Their site was extemely impressive.