Crackdown on drivers abusing Cyclists Advance Stop boxes

[flecc]

The Greater London Council and the Metropolitan Police are in the process of a two week hard crackdown on drivers who enter the advance stop boxes at traffic lights. A number of driver have already been penalised with a £60 fine and three points on their driving licences. Some cyclists jumping the red lights have also been fined, £30 in their case, this in an effort to show drivers that the exercise is not just picking on drivers.

The official aim is to help reduce the truck v cyclist deaths, ensuring trucks are well behind cyclists at lights and the drivers therefore able to clearly see the cyclists.

It's the points on licences that's most likely to make drivers sit up and take note so hopefully there will be a lasting beneficial effect.

If drivers in your area outside London also abuse these boxes, maybe drawing the attention of your area's Police and Crime Commissioner and your Council's roads safety officer to this London action could bring results.

 

[Clockwise]

That's funny, I noticed 2 police cars in boxes at different lights as I biked out to oxford street and back after work. Is very rare to stop at lights and not see a car in the boxes.

 

[103Alex1]

Do as we say and not as we do !

 

[Hackney Andy]

I've had endless correspondence with the Corporation of London (C of L) and the City police about this and I knew it was coming. About six months ago I was invited out with a City policeman to see how 'impossible' it was to enforce ASLs; 'it's not an offence if they enter it on amber'. For two hours I pointed out blatant infringement after infringement; the policemen 'had a word' with some of the drivers, but didn't issue a ticket. Skip lorries, buses taxis, m/cycles scooters - everyone was as at it. He eventually confessed that they effectively boycott ASL enforcement because they feel the 3 point penalty is too harsh. I then wrote to the senior officer that had arranged the demonstration offering him the video evidence I'd gathered. He said he was hoping the politicians would 'offer clarification' on the matter soon. Perhaps this is it?

This issue has been moved up the agenda by Andrew Gilligan.

A little off thread but my other exchanges with C of L relate to their new appetite for reducing carriageway widths down to 3m (a lorry axel is 2.5m) by converting (in some cases) cycle lanes into additional pavement space. This has already been done in cheapside and is now intended for Fenchurch street. Apparently this makes it safer for cyclists as drivers can't overtake a cyclist occupying the full lane. I suggested that they should put up a sign saying 'Cyclists take full lane' so irate drivers don't think the cyclist is just being obstructive. This was deemed unnecessary as it's 'already in the highway code' according to C of L officers. I said I felt this to be a high profile place to conduct such an experiment, but C of L consider this to be a success and is working as intended as 'nobody has been killed since the road was narrowed'.

I gather a lot of cyclists now avoid this road as they don't like being intimidated, overtaken dangerously close or stuck in traffic fumes being unable to filter up the left to get past.

 

[ghouluk]

this is an interesting thread - i'm wondering though - how do you give a cyclist a ticket? i mean first you've got to catch them, and second they've got to give correct details....

is this just responsible cyclists who stop when told to, and give real names and addresses?

(not trying to be controversial, genuinely interested)

 

[funkylyn]

I think 99% of the population would stop when asked to by a police officer wouldnt they ?

Whether whilst driving, cycling or walking, they would give the details asked for....I think most of us are conditioned to responding this way.

Or am I judging everyone by how I think I would respond ?

Im pretty sure I would never dream of not stopping or, heaven forbid, giving false information to the police, and I like to cling on to the hope that the majority of the populace are just as law abiding....or am I being naive.....

Lynda

 

[ghouluk]

Now i'm not trying to start the police are/aren't nice people debate again

but if i was riding through a red light in london (which of course i'd never do - as i don't take my bike to london anymore ), and one of the rozzers waved me down, i'd probably stop - as you say we're conditioned to behave that way, and in general its simpler....but if you've already made the decision to break the law, and most red light running cyclists are lycra clad fitties - and if they could get out of sight of the plod, it would all be circumstantial (no number plate - and i (or someone who looked like me) got away with the same thing on the motor bike despite being easy to identify with a bright purple jacket and a sun and moon fluorescent helmet, it went to court and got thrown out)

 

[funkylyn]

But surely its got absolutely nothing to do with whether the police are nice or not and everything to do with whether the majority of the population are law abiding citizens, regardless of their personal opinions or experiences of random police officers ?

I can just imagine you in purple jacket and sun and moon helmet......wearing that get up its amazing you didnt get done by the style police lol

Lynda

 

[peerjay56]

this is an interesting thread - i'm wondering though - how do you give a cyclist a ticket? i mean first you've got to catch them, and second they've got to give correct details....

is this just responsible cyclists who stop when told to, and give real names and addresses?

(not trying to be controversial, genuinely interested)

The recent BBC series Route Masters showed some cycle enforcement, by lycra clad cycling PCs. They were ready and able to pursue if the errant cyclist(s) didn't stop - though none of the examples used included any high speed chases! They were (shown) equally stopping drivers too.
Oh, and the officers were wearing bullet video cameras, as part of their 'armoury' of intelligence gathering tools. I didn't see where the notebook and pencil were kept

 

[muckymits]

I think 99% of the population would stop when asked to by a police officer wouldnt they ?

Whether whilst driving, cycling or walking, they would give the details asked for....I think most of us are conditioned to responding this way.

Or am I judging everyone by how I think I would respond ?

Im pretty sure I would never dream of not stopping or, heaven forbid, giving false information to the police, and I like to cling on to the hope that the majority of the populace are just as law abiding....or am I being naive.....

Lynda

But Lynda we were told as kids Mr Plod was god, the younger ones now just tell them to F*** off and worse. They have no respect.

 

[funkylyn]

But Lynda we were told as kids Mr Plod was god, the younger ones now just tell them to F*** off and worse. They have no respect.

True.....the really big problems will arise once us older ones are outnumbered by those very same youngsters......in other words, when we die.....and I have made myself a promise to stop worrying about law and order, the state of the world etc once Im dead ......anything for a peaceful 'life' haha

Lynda

 

[flecc]

this is an interesting thread - i'm wondering though - how do you give a cyclist a ticket? i mean first you've got to catch them, and second they've got to give correct details....

is this just responsible cyclists who stop when told to, and give real names and addresses?

They do stop as film of the scenes show. Mostly the stop is by police officers the other side of the lights who step out arm raised in front of the offending cyclist. The communication is generally good natured, both sides recognising the position of the other.

That's the thing in a densely crowded large city like London, we have to get along well together or we'd all go bonkers. It's the only way cities can work.

 

[ghouluk]

But surely its got absolutely nothing to do with whether the police are nice or not and everything to do with whether the majority of the population are law abiding citizens, regardless of their personal opinions or experiences of random police officers ?

very true

I can just imagine you in purple jacket and sun and moon helmet......wearing that get up its amazing you didnt get done by the style police lol

Lynda

imagine away - its friday after all

 

[ghouluk]

They do stop as film of the scenes show. Mostly the stop is by police officers the other side of the lights who step out arm raised in front of the offending cyclist. The communication is generally good natured, both sides recognising the position of the other.

That's the thing in a densely crowded large city like London, we have to get along well together or we'd all go bonkers. It's the only way cities can work.

so the answer to my question "is this just responsible cyclists who stop when told to, and give real names and addresses?" is yes

good to know.

 

[funkylyn]

imagine away - its friday after all

Im holding the thought.......

Lynda

 

[flecc]

so the answer to my question "is this just responsible cyclists who stop when told to, and give real names and addresses?" is yes

good to know.

I'm betting the instances of cyclists giving a false name and address to a police officer are very rare. It's one thing for fare dodgers to do that to a railways inspector when facing a criminal offence charge, quite another for a cyclist to a police officer to dodge a minor civil offence fine. Not worth the risk.

 

[danfoto]

... we were told as kids Mr Plod was god ...

Indeed. Just like we were told that Father Christmas was real ...

 

[funkylyn]

Indeed. Just like we were told that Father Christmas was real ...

Hmm..... and just what are you implying ??

Not that long till Father Christmas visits again

Lynda

 

[flecc]

H
Not that long till Father Christmas visits again

Lynda

Unbelievably several days ago I got a commercial mail saying "The festive season is upon us".

And it was a bird seed supplier?

 

[funkylyn]

Maybe our feathered friends are expecting an early bad winter.....

Lynda