E-mopeds to win over e-bikes?

[flecc]

Over a year ago I entered a contentious thread for debate on the motion that e-mopeds would win out over e-bikes. Link.

The news that Giant, the world's largest bicycle maker and also a major maker of e-bikes is making the major change of entering the e-moped market after so many years of being content with bike and e-bike sales has reminded me of this.

Story here
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[frank9755]

On my recent trip to the Netherlands I was struck by how many petrol and electric scooters, or 'Solexes' there were. They are ridden, virtually always without helmets, in the bike lanes, by all sorts of people. I guess we don't have the low-powered moped class that allows the rider to go helmetless and use bike lanes, so we may not see the same thing here.

 

[Mussels]

It looks like a slow and low range scooter, like the Street Scoota I've seen a few times. Along a straight flat road it is hardly any faster than me and doesn't have enough range to get me to work and back.

 

[fishingpaul]

It looks like a slow and low range scooter, like the Street Scoota I've seen a few times. Along a straight flat road it is hardly any faster than me and doesn't have enough range to get me to work and back.

I think this is the downfall of electric scooters,you cant really use them if the battery dies,some electric bikes are at least rideable without power.

 

[Fecn]

It is all about infrastructure and legislation.

I would make more arguments, but actually they really are summed up by the above line. Battery life is a moot point as it effects all vehicles equally.

 

[Mussels]

It is all about infrastructure and legislation.

I would make more arguments, but actually they really are summed up by the above line. Battery life is a moot point as it effects all vehicles equally.

Battery life is much more important when it is the only way of moving the thing, I have carried on when my battery has run out before.

 

[themutiny]

There's a young guy who lives near me who has an e-moped. He doesn't wear a helmet, and he clearly has to pedal to assist the thing up hills, although without any gears. I go flying past him on my Torq, invariably at double his speed. I have a Yamaha fazer 1000, but I get much more enjoyment from my e-bike. It's probably just me, but I can't really see the point of e-mopeds. If you want that style of bike, get a 'real'one, otherwise stick with an e-bike.......

 

[Straylight]

I think there is a market for these things as alot of people seem to have an aversion to the idea of cycling. Whereas, if you present them with a machine that at least looks like what they might consider as a "proper" mode of transport, there's more of a chance they might buy one. It's sad, but to some the mental image of themselves on a bike as opposed to what they're conditioned to think of as a "real" vehicle means that they instantly dismiss the idea. So I think that e-mopeds simply exist to bridge an imagination gap.

 

[wibble]

An ebike that looks like a mountain bike tends to have a little more more street cred than a scooter, especially a slow scooter.

Scooters say - "I'd like a motorbike or a car but I can't afford just yet."

Mountain bikes say - "I like to keep fit".


Just don't let people see the motor on your mountain bike and you'll be fine!

 

[flecc]

Remember the basis of my original post everyone, the arrival of much better batteries within ten years.

With batteries enabling e-mopeds to have much longer range and a consistent town speed performance, most of the objections raised above are overcome. They will benefit far more than e-bikes from the improved battery performance, simply because they are the worst affected by current batteries deficiencies.
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[Mussels]

Remember the basis of my original post everyone, the arrival of much better batteries within ten years.

With batteries enabling e-mopeds to have much longer range and a consistent town speed performance, most of the objections raised above are overcome. They will benefit far more than e-bikes from the improved battery performance, simply because they are the worst affected by current batteries deficiencies.
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The main reason people will buy electric scooters is because they are cheaper to run, if they get popular enough they will need to pay extra fuel tax the same as petrol scooters just like lpg users found.
That will be a few years coming and probably just after the good batteries arrive.

 

[frank9755]

It is all about infrastructure and legislation.

I would make more arguments, but actually they really are summed up by the above line.

I couldn't have put it better myself!

In the Netherlands they have an infrastructure and (presumably) a legislative framework which encourages Solex-type low powered scooters, and they are everywhere. Here we don't, and they aren't. I think e-scooters definitely have a great future in the Netherlands, which is presumably where Giant is targeting with its new model. The opportunity is less clear here but I would expect legislation and infrastructure to become more favourable.

 

[flecc]

The main reason people will buy electric scooters is because they are cheaper to run, if they get popular enough they will need to pay extra fuel tax the same as petrol scooters just like lpg users found.
That will be a few years coming and probably just after the good batteries arrive.

I discussed this previously and I'm sure it won't happen, simply because it's impossible to administer. With e-scooters mainly used for return journeys based on home where there's an electricity supply, it couldn't be enforced.

Governments won't want to enter into another "red diesel" situation, this widely abused despite being easier to administer. They'll have to find another way of raising that revenue, possibly via very much higher road taxes for all vehicles.
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[Alex728]

it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to justify raising VED on electric vehicles. The whole justification given in modern times for extra taxes on vehicles with internal combustion engines and fuel is that they give rise to extra environmental pollution - which electric vehicles do not cause.

that said I think legislation will make a big difference. In other countries (particularly SE Asian nations) there has been greater clampdowns on scooters/mopeds (irrespective of fuel) and bigger enforcement of helmet laws and licensing/insurance formalities which has led to a increase in the sales and usage of e-bikes!

Even in Britain today for younger people the bureaucratic burden involved in getting a scooter/moped is such (especially with a CBT running out after two years) that they might as well just do the full test for a car or large motorbike, and get this larger vehicle if they can afford it, which at present most can..

and (barring a genuine shift of political power towards the green lobby in EU) I'm not that optimistic about the wider EU as I was reading some French website about their low power mopeds and I got the impression the laws are also being tightened up, due to perceptions that these vehicles are disproportionately involved in serious injury/fatal collisions, as well as illegal conversions over rated power...

 

[winterdog]

Oh yea im rocking the Vectrix bikes
VX1 50 miles ish per charege and running at 62 MPH, requring CBT

but im am supprised that
Vectrix Electrics: Electric Scooters and Electric Bikes VX-1 VX-1E VX-2

says that you can drive the VX2 (30 mph limit) with a Provisional licence

they coulld be fun if not big up front cost (wonder what battery change cost is )

 

[flecc]

Yes, the Vectrix points to the sort of future I meant in the original thread, once improved batteries are available.

A restricted powered two wheeler can be ridden on a provisional licence for a limited period, two years before the the tests must be taken.

Also anyone who has a car driving licence from before 1st February 2001 can ride a 30 mph restricted moped permanently without taking any tests.
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[Mussels]

View attachment 752
Oh yea im rocking the Vectrix bikes
VX1 50 miles ish per charege and running at 62 MPH, requring CBT

but im am supprised that
Vectrix Electrics: Electric Scooters and Electric Bikes VX-1 VX-1E VX-2

says that you can drive the VX2 (30 mph limit) with a Provisional licence

they coulld be fun if not big up front cost (wonder what battery change cost is )

You could ride the VX2 with an older full car license that came with 50cc class, that way you wouldn't need a CBT. It's a bit ambiguous and that's all I can think of.
Anyway they are all too much money with too little range, shame as they looked great when it was launched.

 

[Barnowl]

Stunning looking Scooter. Superb design.

I'd never buy one though even if they had a range of 200 miles. What would I do with my restless legs and the extra calories?

 

[winterdog]

i was under the impresion you needed your CBT for any thing bigger than a pedalec bike(15 mph) i wonder if there is a cheet sheet for this stuff some where

 

[Mussels]

i was under the impresion you needed your CBT for any thing bigger than a pedalec bike(15 mph) i wonder if there is a cheet sheet for this stuff some where

It depends when you passed your car test, my license had automatic 50cc entitlement which wasn't affected when CBTs were introduced.