Electric Bike Kits

flecc · Mar 1, 2009

Hi Sammy, welcome to the forum.

None of the kits currently on the market are 48 volt, probably just as well with battery prices around £400 upwards for 36 volt ones.

There are powerful 36 volt kits from eZee, Heinzmann and Alien, the latter the lowest cost. You'll find some more information on this link:

Kits tested

Some supplier Links:

Alien

eZee

Heinzmann
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flecc · Mar 1, 2009

Thanks Sammy, but I wasn't including the intermittently available and illegal stuff.

UK law means our bikes are limited to a nominal 200 Watts, those giving peak powers of up to about 700 Watts.

That bike can be made far above that with a 1500 Watt peak, so very illegal. They say it can be left at a 250 watt setting which is the EU limit, but if you derestricted it there could be problems.

In UK law it would be a motor vehicle meaning it has to be type approved, registered, plated, taxed and insured with all the other restrictions for motor cycles.

It looks like a direct drive motor, which in the 250 watt form might not be a very good performer when hill climbing, though ok on the flat of course.
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Footie · Mar 1, 2009

Are you UK based?
The kit you have supplied a link to would be illegal to use on UK roads (200w/250w max motor).

Quote from site:
(Off road only Not Road Legal *30+ Mph 800 watts)

So I presume, by that, you are looking at a kit for off road use.

I don't know of any here on the forum that has purchased such a big motor.
They may have but may be keeping sensibly quite about it

An 800w motor would certainly have plenty of power for off road fun.
You would need a decent battery for that size motor, which will be very expensive.
Not sure how long a battery would last though, considering the amount of draw needed to power such a beast

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rog_london · Mar 1, 2009

I was also thinking that the battery range with the thing derestricted might well be somewhat limited.

If I were selling a bike with this spec on e-bay I'd be sure to quote the range in 'legal' mode and keep quiet about what it might do in the other one, especially as with that sort of battery drain on SLAs the effective capacity would drop considerably. 1500 watts at 48 volts is over 30 amps, and even if the controller and motor were up to it (let's assume they are), that's a lot of drain on a 12 amp hour SLA.

It would only need a traffic copper to see you take off from the lights and get up to 30 mph in a short distance and I feel sure he'd not let it go. It's just too obvious. A bit over the legal assist limit (a la Wisper) doesn't attract attention, but that much power, if used, definitely would.

Having said that, it sounds like great fun, and I have access to (fairly) unlimited SLAs in all shapes and sizes, so I would be tempted - a bit - if I didn't have a Wisper.

Rog.

flecc · Mar 1, 2009

Actually all hub motors are very reliable Sammy. On the very rare occasion one gives trouble it's nearly always right at the beginning of their life when under the usual one year warranty. Direct drive motors like that are the most reliable of all.

It's more the controllers and batteries that can be short lived, and if you used that outfit derestricted they are under the greatest strain. That motor would certainly give you an easy life even if you are heavy, since derestricted it peaks at nearly two horsepower, more than enough for most purposes and double the most powerful legal bikes. But as others have said, the range then would be very short.

Although the risk of being caught is small, if you were caught using that derestricted on the road, the range of offences could mean you losing any driving licence you have or having a ban applying to any future one.
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flecc · Mar 1, 2009

sammy06forever said:
Hello Footie and Rog i have spoken to the guy who is selling the kits he said the batteries suppled do the job he also said that the kit is road legal as i challenged him on it i am just a nov i dont know.
i wouldnt be using it all the time it is just nice to know you have got the power if you need it as i said i just think about it all.

When it's used restricted it's EU legal Sammy, technically not quite right for the UK but not a problem. The only snag with doing that is that it may not be very good on hills and less good than a normal legal internally geared hub motor.

All that advertised high power will only be unleashed when derestricted.
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rog_london · Mar 1, 2009

sammy06forever said:
Hello Footie and Rog i have spoken to the guy who is selling the kits he said the batteries suppled do the job he also said that the kit is road legal as i challenged him on it i am just a nov i dont know.
i wouldnt be using it all the time it is just nice to know you have got the power if you need it as i said i just think about it all.

Maybe we're misleading you a bit.....

It IS road legal as long as you don't give way to temptation and derestrict it. At least, I think it is. There is a grey area - the rated power of the motor is supposed to be no more than 250 watts (EU rules) but even the road legal kits and bikes normally sold handsomely exceed that, and so far there are no tests on what gets imported or sold to measure the peak output of a system. Most motors have a label which says '200W' or some such stuck on them, and that's as far as it goes.

I don't think you need to worry about that therefore. If the controller limits you to 15 mph then you won't have any problem under current legislation and it seems that so far the police and the DfT don't bother us to check. Just be aware of the risks if you derestrict it, though. Even if you use it off-road you will probably be breaking some laws, as these days there are restrictions on what can legally be done on 'green lanes' and other public pathways as opposed to 'roads'.

For selfish reasons, I worry a little about these high power kits being readily available, because if anything were going to wake up 'the authorities' it would be the proliferation of bicycle look-alikes with silly acceleration and top speed. You can bet that more general regulation would soon follow if that were perceived to be a problem.

Rog.

rog_london · Mar 1, 2009

sammy06forever said:
Thanks Rog i see where you are coming from i never even thought of it like that there are a lot of things to think about before you commit to buy i have placed another site on here Best Electric Bike - Best Electric Bike have a look at it and tell me what you think about it.
Regards Sammy

I did. There's a long sad history of e-bike producers who are one-man bands which spring up one minute and disappear the next. This one sort of says he's not properly trading yet, and so you need to be wary.

Even apparently established companies fall by the wayside - e-bikes are still a minority interest, and most of the kit comes from China, and without good backup you could very easily find yourself with something which doesn't work soon after purchase, and a supplier who has gone bust. Chinese suppliers are not noted for their reliability, and kit varies widely in quality even from the same factory. They have an interesting business model in China - they manufacture good quality kit for demanding markets, and crap for those who want it cheap - usually under the same roof, and without a second thought.

If you're really serious about getting an e-bike, you need to consider whether to spend fairly serious money on one from an established supplier (many of those show up on this forum) or take a chance with less money which you can afford to lose. Obviously it's your call. There are plenty on here who will be happy to tell you about their experiences - good and bad.

Rog.

rog_london · Mar 1, 2009

sammy06forever said:
Thanks Rog i will see what happens as i am in no rush to buy just yet.
Regards Sammy

You're welcome! Glad to be of help.

Rog.

Footie · Mar 1, 2009

As I found, you may be finding it difficult to get kits here in the UK.
I took a chance and ordered one from an ebay seller based in china, end of last year.
Unfortunately, he's no longer to be found on ebay. Happily, the kit arrived, is complete and appears to work. However, I'm on my own from here on with it (no back-up or support).
Without the battery, cost wise, I'm up to £450 so far, (inc £80 import and tax duty) and I will be using a 20-year-old bike to fit it too.
So kits aren’t a cheap option.

Good luck with your serach

This is an interesting site that I found back-along, looks at the pros and cons of kits, with some links to kits.
May be helpful.

Which Kit?
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flecc · Mar 1, 2009

You're not a pain at all Sammy, all questions welcome.

On your latest link, avoid the below crank Cyclone motor for your use as it's low powered and prone to damp and corrosion problems. Our site administrator had one of these bikes and was pleased to get rid of it.

The hub motor bike is similar to the first one we looked at, direct drive motor and all the same reservations. However. where the first one was very heavy due to the lead acid batteries, this one will be lighter since it uses the latest type of lithium iron phosphate battery. These are very new though, so we don't know much about their reliability yet, but in theory they should last for about 1000 charges.

The warning about the supplier that Rog mentions applies of course, they could disappear as quickly as they appeared, so as with many ebay suppliers, the warranty isn't guaranteed to exist if you need it eventually.
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kraeuterbutter · Mar 2, 2009

uses the latest type of lithium iron phosphate battery. These are very new though, so we don't know much about their reliability yet, but in theory they should last for about 1000 charges.

don´t know which brand is used in that bike..

but for A123 we can already say from praxis (and not only theorie):
1050 cycles at 10C discharge, 3C charge
(more than you will ever have in e-bike use)

over 700 cycles sofar and still going at 12C average discharge and peaks in the 30C range, 4c charging

for e-bike-use with BMS it should be possible to get over 1000cycles for sure because the treatment of the cells is much softer and harmless

(A123 speaks from ~5000 cylces at 1C useage which comes close to a proper e-bike-battery)

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