emotion/panasonic drive train?

[Tourangang]

following my search for the perfect ebike, im now looking at the emotion cross delux, could someone point me in the direction of where i can get some info on the drivetrain - for the limited images i can see, it looks like some sort of on the tire arrangment? - is it not a hub motor on these then?

anyone who owns an emotion bike what are your thoughts/experiences of them?

thanks

john

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi John,

The Panasonic powered bikes are crank driven and the following links should give all the info you are likely to need on the subject. The first was produced by our own Pedelec Guru, Flecc, need I say more? Untitled Page
A Buyers' Guide


J hn

 

[Sir_Bob]

panasonic motors are great mine manages to get me about everywhere on my kalkhofff . they look great and are very reliable mine one easily getsme up all the hills and i am quite big, not as big as i used to be but at least 19stones i think.

 

[Bikerbob]

Just to confuse you further, I see that Alien Bikes (alienbikes.co.uk) do their Gents Special 2 bike with a 21in frame for £579. You have to do your own research on whether they are any good though

 

[Tourangang]

Thanks Guys - so in your opinion do you think these are better than the wisper bikes then?

 

[Sir_Bob]

the panasonic motors are better i think and the best of the panasonics are my kalkhoff by far you should try one. it is good to be able to go up the hill s easily and to not have a throttle the throttles hurt my hand lots

 

[Cyclezee]

Thanks Guys - so in your opinion do you think these are better than the wisper bikes then?

Everybody has their own opinion, I would recommend that you try as many as possible for yourself to find what suits you best. Obviously, if there is not a dealer near you this may be difficult. However, 50cycles for example have a scheme which can put you in touch with owners willing to allow test rides, there could be an owner near you. I personally allowed several potential buyers a test ride.

J hn

 

[eddieo]

Thanks Guys - so in your opinion do you think these are better than the wisper bikes then?

Not better different........ They may suit you they may not it pointless speculating without riding them. Once you have tried a Panasonic powered bike, you will know what you prefer. I prefer Wisper power assist/throttle bikes and dont think I would like the Panasonic system but I have never tried one.

I will take a wildly uninformed guess that you will end up preferring a Wisper or Ezee style bike purely because of the way the panasonic system operates.

I am waiting for the latest 906xc tourer as a possible replacement for my 905SE Sport which I sold recently. If I don't like it I will just buy a 905 City S. Why? because they are great bikes with great support and I need that, as not mechanically savy

Onbike are really your best bet, you will definitely know then...........Then all you will have to try afterwards is a Kalkhoff if you like the panasonic powered E Motion

 

[Mussels]

Thanks Guys - so in your opinion do you think these are better than the wisper bikes then?

The big drawback with the Panasonic unit is the cadence restriction, it favours low cadence (between 40 and 60 I think) with high pressure on the pedals.

 

[GORDONAL]

I own not the cross but the City D/L. its excellent ,ON-BIKE are very helpful nice guys to deal with ... you can try loads of pedelecs from different manufacturers and choose what suits you,for me the Panasonic system is 99% excellent apart from the cadence issue where you think you want 1 more gear (on the flat) but overall its a superb bike really well made with quality components....i would highly recommend Al. ps changing the cassette sorts the cadence issue

 

[Tourangang]

Gordonal - what sort of range do you get from your emotion?

JOhn

 

[Mussels]

I own not the cross but the City D/L. its excellent ,ON-BIKE are very helpful nice guys to deal with ... you can try loads of pedelecs from different manufacturers and choose what suits you,for me the Panasonic system is 99% excellent apart from the cadence issue where you think you want 1 more gear (on the flat) but overall its a superb bike really well made with quality components....i would highly recommend Al. ps changing the cassette sorts the cadence issue

Changing the casette may make the bike quicker under power but it still only provides assistance at low cadences.

 

[Fecn]

The big drawback with the Panasonic unit is the cadence restriction, it favours low cadence (between 40 and 60 I think) with high pressure on the pedals.

The cadence is set by the number of teeth on the motor sprocket - It is possible to increase the cadence on the Panasonic system by changing the motor sprocket from 9-tooth to 11-tooth(£15) but this will result in assistance continuing to a non-legal 18.3mph with the standard hub gearing setup.

 

[GORDONAL]

Hi John i get a range of about 40 miles of mixed use but i do weigh 125kg. AL

 

[Mussels]

The cadence is set by the number of teeth on the motor sprocket - It is possible to increase the cadence on the Panasonic system by changing the motor sprocket from 9-tooth to 11-tooth(£15) but this will result in assistance continuing to a non-legal 18.3mph with the standard hub gearing setup.

That means that the power tails off from 48rpm and stops completely at 73 rpm. that's still pretty low when a fit (or not so fit in my case) cyclist will cruise at 80rpm. To get the most out of the Panasonic unit up hill would require being in a high gear and standing on the pedals, not great for the bike or rider on a long distance.

 

[JohnInStockie]

That depends a lot on what youre using it for. For example, if commuting, then you really want the power after having to slow down or going up a hill. Cruising at top speed on the flat you shouldnt need the motor at all, if you do then really you want a moped.

If youre not commuting, then you will probably be taking it easy, and it will help you then as your cadence is lower.

Thats the clever design behind this versatile system and why these relatively small batteries get such a large range and can climb so well too.

John

 

[Mussels]

That depends a lot on what youre using it for. For example, if commuting, then you really want the power after having to slow down or going up a hill. Cruising at top speed on the flat you shouldnt need the motor at all, if you do then really you want a moped.

If youre not commuting, then you will probably be taking it easy, and it will help you then as your cadence is lower.

Thats the clever design behind this versatile system and why these relatively small batteries get such a large range and can climb so well too.

John

If I slow down for a hill then I tend to change gear to keep an efficient cadence, that allows me to put more effort into the climb which saves battery. A hub motor is no more help at high speed as it cuts out at the same speed but the hub motor allows me to pedal like I would on a normal bike. The panasonic unit is better on steep hills because it is driven through the gears but to get the most out of it the rider needs to use bad riding habits.

 

[flecc]

If I slow down for a hill then I tend to change gear to keep an efficient cadence, that allows me to put more effort into the climb which saves battery. A hub motor is no more help at high speed as it cuts out at the same speed but the hub motor allows me to pedal like I would on a normal bike. The panasonic unit is better on steep hills because it is driven through the gears but to get the most out of it the rider needs to use bad riding habits.

Hub motor or chain drive both have their advantages and disadvantages which tend to balance out for most users in most areas.

The perfect system would probably be a Panasonic style one which allowed the rider to dial in their cadence preference at any time during riding, but with the speed limiting laws as they are, it would be very difficult to realise in a practical way.
.

 

[fishingpaul]

As you can see it is all down to personal choice,there is no best system only your preffered system,and the best way of finding this is to try out as many as possible yourself.

 

[JohnInStockie]

I think youre painting a slightly incorrect picture of the way it works there Mussels

If I slow down for a hill then I tend to change gear to keep an efficient cadence, that allows me to put more effort into the climb which saves battery.

Yep same here, I slow down, until I reach equilibrium between the bike, cadence and the ascent as suits me. I could stand on the pedals if I wanted (I wouldnt), but then so could you. In practice people do NOT stand on the pedals.

...but to get the most out of it the rider needs to use bad riding habits.

Not true, unless youre really mean to get the MOST POWER OUTPUT out of it, then the rider needs to slow down their cadence considerably and stand on the pedals. But I think youre missing the point, if you were struggling up a 1 in 4, isnt that EXACTLY when you want the assistance, when youre really struggling for power? Why would I want it when I dont need it, thats just wasting battery power?

I think what you are highlighting as a flaw, is really a feature, as in the way it was specifically designed to work. These are power assisted bikes after all, and this 'system' isnt designed as a brute force 'pull up the hill' system, its designed to assist the rider when it thinks the rider genuinely needs it.

Fleccs 100% right of course, being able to alter the cadence on a Panasonic style system to suit individual riding style would be the best option, probably with an optional throttle (why hasnt anyone done this yet?).



John