Experiences with Open Source Firmware on the Tongsheng TSDZ2

huds

Just Joined
Oct 30, 2020
3
2
This is a pretty good comparison too.

 

MontyPAS

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2020
386
151
First comparison I have seen between BBS and TSDZ2 motors. (From ECO Cycles website)

Included: Bare TSDZ2 Controller with Battery, Speed Sensor, and Display Connectors

- Any Power Level / Programming is Available Upon Request (24-52v, 10-18a, 250-750w)
Most of the TSDZ2 models that leave the Tongsheng factory are 13a and the same couple models are commonly sold by distributors at multiple different wattage ratings ~ 350w, 500w, 750w. We typically program ours (ourselves) to 15a on the 36v models, 18a on the 48v and 17a on the 52v models - stronger than you can get anywhere else! We would rate the 36v15a @ 500w, and the 48v18a & 52v17a @ 750w - which is a realistic actual power rating for the TSDZ2. The 750w BBS models are rated with a bit of a deflated value, seeing how they peak over 1300w, while the TSDZ2 typically peaks under 1000w.

If correct the differences seem too small to explain your experience.

My TsdZ2 is a 36v (500 W) model and is much better than my Yose power front wheel kit that I know peaks at 500W acording to the display
ECO Cycles. As an online retailer of said motor units, giving reviews and comparisons, I would personally take with a pinch of salt.
My experiences are from real world ownership and uses!
The Bafang is in another world compared to the TongSheng
Build quality, power, ease of use, ease of programming, reliability, ease of maintenance etc etc etc..... Make the Bafang a better buy.
Maybe mine is a Friday afternoon duffer? Personally I would not buy another!

Enjoy yours ;) ;)
 
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haggis

Pedelecer
Aug 3, 2015
36
15
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ECO Cycles. As an online retailer of said motor units, giving reviews and comparisons, I would personally take with a pinch of salt.
My experiences are from real world ownership and uses!
The Bafang is in another world compared to the TongSheng
Build quality, power, ease of use, ease of programming, reliability, ease of maintenance etc etc etc..... Make the Bafang a better buy.
Maybe mine is a Friday afternoon duffer? Personally I would not buy another!

Enjoy yours ;) ;)
Yes it does sound like you've been unfortunate in the one you've bought. But at least you've got one motor you're very happy with
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,527
449
thurrock essex
The bafang will provide 1200 +watts in short bursts and above 750 most of the time so comparison is not all it seems and you can ghost pedal, the tsdz2 is for cyclists who want to pedal
Have both motors also the torque is 80 nm or 120nm for the bafang
 
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peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
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thurrock essex
TSDZ2-Mid-Motor-36V-250W-350W-48V-500W-Ebike-Conversion-Kit/402520168588,<ebay listing item number
Check out this listing and has various display option inc 500c under £320 bollfit ebike ?
 

TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
48
75
Glos
Further tests of the firmware:
I have managed to get out and give the system more of a real test. I am pretty positive about it, well worth the £10 it cost me to install it :)
I am using it in Power-assist mode and the assistance is smoother than before. In level 4 it would surge with each pedal press and it no longer does this. I get the impression that it is giving more assistance at higher cadence and letting me use a lower gear than I might have done. There seems more power but it is hard to be certain about this. I tested on my favorite hill and sailed up with assist level 2, it is normally harder. So overall a favorable impression. No idea about range at present but my battery is on its last legs anyway so any data I might get is not to be trusted.

The display is not so good. It is fine for the basic functions speed, distance and assist level but pretty hopeless for displaying any other parameters of changing any parameters.
If you want easy access to these or like to keep changing things then this is probably not for you and one of the other firmware forks that use alternative displays may be preferable.
I am fine with it.

I get an E02 error warning coming up occasionally but since pressing the light switch puts the display in alternative mode and displays E02 I think that this is what is happening rather than a true error display.
I assume the motor would not function with a faulty torque sensor.

I have another bike with a TSDZ2 ( an Elephant bike) and i will be putting it on that and we see see how it goes.

Tim
 
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FrodoBaggins

Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2017
70
24
44
West Yorkshire
Okay time for a lil' update.

Have just put her on charge for the 1st time since flashing the new firmware.

Positives:
* Range seems okay. Managed 70 miles
* Can pretty much live with Eco mode for most if not all of the time, although have not yet tackled any 25% grades!
* Super smooth around the 25kph cut off point!

Negatives:
* At 70 miles we found the low battery cut off...not really a negative though...am taking this to mean that the range is at least as good as before and well...70 miles!
* After booting up and setting off, the Speedo reads 0 mph for about a minute before bursting into life.
* Had an issue at around 50 miles where upon activating the lights to illuminate the screen I got an E02 error. I was also waiting at a red traffic light (take that Daily Fail readers!) with brakes on and a foot weighted on the pedal which may have been the cause.
* As mentioned previously, initial take up of drive is a touch aggressive and the assistance in the 3 higher power settings is noticeably weaker than before...but as mentioned, have yet to test again on a steep climb.
* Youngest Dahling Windoze 10 laptop has thrown the towel in, so unable to do the fine tuning yet.

Conclusion:
* 60 mile range seems realistic.
* If the take up of drive & higher power settings imperfections can be tuned out then, Wow :)
* Need to monitor that E02 error - hopefully nothing.
* Universal eBike kit + Firmware from the hacker community = With fine tuning needed, an experience in the Shimano ballpark.

It is pretty good y'know :)
Hey Swizz
I must have read this thread about 30 times.
I did exactly what you did and kept the same display.
All has worked fine.

so now you have had this in operation for a while now. Are there any recommended settings from the Java tool
I am hoping just to get to something I like and then leave it. No real need to have a 860c display for me right now.

tbh I was so happy that the flashing worked and the motor turned back on, I didn’t read too much into the settings.

the thing I seem to have found is that putting in emtb mode, means that level 1 feels like level 4 and level 3 and 4 don’t seem to feel much different.
It also sets off like a train. Which is both cool and uncool.

I liked that I could do loads of the cycling before and now it feels like I can’t. Previously I got crazy range. 100 miles perhaps. Now

maybe you can post your settings so I can save some time, plugging and unplugging just to cycle around the block.

thanks kindly
 
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Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
211
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Hey Swizz
I must have read this thread about 30 times.
I did exactly what you did and kept the same display.
All has worked fine.

so now you have had this in operation for a while now. Are there any recommended settings from the Java tool
I am hoping just to get to something I like and then leave it. No real need to have a 860c display for me right now.

tbh I was so happy that the flashing worked and the motor turned back on, I didn’t read too much into the settings.

the thing I seem to have found is that putting in emtb mode, means that level 1 feels like level 4 and level 3 and 4 don’t seem to feel much different.
It also sets off like a train. Which is both cool and uncool.

I liked that I could do loads of the cycling before and now it feels like I can’t. Previously I got crazy range. 100 miles perhaps. Now

maybe you can post your settings so I can save some time, plugging and unplugging just to cycle around the block.

thanks kindly
Hiya Frodo!

It sounds like your experience in emtb mode is similar to mine. If truth be known I haven't messed around with the settings any further yet although the house has another laptop so I could at some point.

I have grown used to how it currently performs. On a fresh battery level 1 is fine in most situations upto 12mph whereas level 2 is the same upto 16mph ish. I only use 3 when the battery is about ⅓ full. If I do have another play with the settings it'll be to try and give 4 distinct levels of assist. It really isn't a deal breaker though.

At just over 750 miles the only recurring niggle has been to nip up the crank bolts on three occasions when they have begun creaking. Maybe the Shimano Steps ones are made of a better quality alloy ... I would consider splashing out on some to try but I use a bafang crank on one side & a tongsheng on the other (1 is straight, the other is cranked) to give even pedal spacing so that isn't an option.

For the outlay the bike has exceeded expectations for sure.

Isla.
 

TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
48
75
Glos
Hi,

You could try power mode. I use this and it seems to function like the normal software but with better assist at lower cadence. It is smooth and controllable.
There is a new version of the software out. This has a hybrid mode a combination of torque and cadence modes. I have not tried it yet but intend doing so in the near future,

Tim
 

FrodoBaggins

Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2017
70
24
44
West Yorkshire
Hi,

You could try power mode. I use this and it seems to function like the normal software but with better assist at lower cadence. It is smooth and controllable.
There is a new version of the software out. This has a hybrid mode a combination of torque and cadence modes. I have not tried it yet but intend doing so in the near future,

Tim
Thanks

I tried hybrid mode the other day. Most of the settings seem to give a tonne of power at the low settings, even if you set to really low values on both torque and power mode. The higher values dont seem to make a huge difference.

I am just wondering if I got something else set that is causing this
 
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TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
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Glos
Hi,

I have only used the default values. Only suggestions I can make are:
Try going back to the default settings and go from there
Make sure you have not set low values for the max power or max current I guess these might limit the power assist in the higher modes.

Tim
 
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FrodoBaggins

Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2017
70
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West Yorkshire
In case anyone is following this thread a little update!
I made a massive school boy error and had forgotten to change the "street mode power limit" box as it was set to 250W.
Once I changed this OMG, massive difference. I am using hybrid mode and just fiddling with the levels. But changing this the power is amazing when you need it.

Previously I was wondering what the big fuss was about the OSF. Opinions have now changed!

I think it is just a case now of tweaking to find some nice levels.

I have 2 bikes, one with stock and now this with OSF. The OSF will be going on both for sure!
 
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Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
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In case anyone is following this thread a little update!
I made a massive school boy error and had forgotten to change the "street mode power limit" box as it was set to 250W.
Once I changed this OMG, massive difference. I am using hybrid mode and just fiddling with the levels. But changing this the power is amazing when you need it.

Previously I was wondering what the big fuss was about the OSF. Opinions have now changed!

I think it is just a case now of tweaking to find some nice levels.

I have 2 bikes, one with stock and now this with OSF. The OSF will be going on both for sure!
Think I need to try this! Do you have a link?
 
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TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
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I tried it this afternoon. It seems to deliver power more smoothly particularly at low pedal pressure.
The improvements are incremental rather than ground breaking but worth the effort.
I noticed from the change log that things changed 6 days ago so will probably have to repeat the exercise.

Swizz the software is in the same place as the version you are using it has been updated to version C
Link is here https://github.com/emmebrusa/TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1

Tim
 
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FrodoBaggins

Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2017
70
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44
West Yorkshire
Think I need to try this! Do you have a link?
Hey there

so what I did was change the setting to hybrid mode and fiddle. i unticked the street power limit enabled.
Or you can change the power settings to higher than 250

if you then fiddle with the ratios on power and torque mode then you can get something that suits.

I like level 1 to be a small mount of assist, maybe the equivalent of riding a Normal bike just on the flat, with a little extra ummph, level 2, is what really feels like an Ebik, level 3 a decent power and 4 is pretty much max for “emergencies”

but it’s a lot of trips around the block or bike rides with my laptop.

these aren’t my settings btw, these are stock and just for demo
 

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Peddlin' Pedro

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2017
139
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West Sussex, UK
Have any of you achieved a significant increase in torque without too much additional heat build up?

I've still not flashed the OSF despite having had an ST-link and extension cable sat around since last year. Will admit I have my doubts whether even the OSF will cope with the demands I'm now putting on the drive: regularly towing 75kg+ in addition to bike, rider and non-towed luggage at 175kg. And even if I can get it to produce enough power I wonder if I'd just end up cooking the thing.

I'd obviously have to open it up and make some mods to deal with heat management before messing with the firmware but increasingly thinking I may be better off avoiding all of it and just putting a bigger drive unit on the bike, BBSHD etc. I'm actually using the bike for work, so reliability is important.

Any thoughts?
 
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TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
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Glos
Hi,

My impression is that there is a modest increase in power but it is delivered in a smoother and more usable way. As regards temperature you can fit a temperature sensor and this should give a measure of protection but requires some hardware changes and you will loose the throttle function https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/How-to-install-motor-temperature-sensor.

The upside is that the firmware change is quick and easy to try but I suspect that if you need a large increase in power then changing the motor is a better option.

Tim
 

TJS109

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2017
109
48
75
Glos
Got the dreaded E02 torque sensor error on the Elephant Bike. I disconnected and re-connected the battery and the error went away but the motor did not run So.... I tried cadence mode in the hope it would ignore the sensor. Such was the case and it is working pretty well. Not sure that I don't prefer it. The startup is a little slower but as a bonus you can ghost pedal in the higher modes. So am going to carry on like that for the moment.
A new sensor seems to be about £60 -80 with a serious amount of dismantling, I have not seen a complete motor assembly for sale only complete kits for about £250 so will probably go down that route if i feel the need to change back to the normal running mode.
 
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