Ezee Batteries Not Charging???

[Cyclezee]

I have a very unusual problem. I sourced an Sanyo celled Ezee Phylion battery form a very friendly forum member early in the week. He had a batch of four supplied by Cyclepoint quite recently and they were working fine. The one I bought wasn't fully charged, so when mt Torq Trekking arrived from 50c along with charger, which I wasn't expecting, I put in on to charge.
Within a couple of seconds, the green light came on on the charger indicating the battery was fully charged, but it wasn't It showed 36.8v when I put a meter on it. Yesterday I rode the bike and after a couple of miles the battery died. When I got home I tried charging again, same thing, green light on charger after a couple of seconds. Next I tried a second charger which arrived yesterday from another forum member, same result, green light after a couple of seconds
Two chargers from different sources kind of rules out a faulty charger.
Then I contacted the member I bought the battery from and he very kindly went out of his way last night to swap my battery for one he had fully charged and showing 41.6v. This morning I did a 12 mile ride, bike and battery performed perfectly. When I got home the voltage had dropped to 38.6 and i put it on to charge, guess what, green light on both chargers after a couple of seconds My conclusion now is it can't be the battery or the charger unless I am doing something really stupid!
Led error codes coming from the controller give no clues other than 3 flashes after braking indicating Brake lever cut-off operating and 6 flashes with the battery that died indicating Low voltage.

Any ideas or advice from the experts out there would be very welcome.

J hn

 

[flecc]

It could be the chargers John. There were a batch of faulty HP chargers supplied with eZee bikes late last year and 50 cycles swapped lots of them. The fault was apparently a zener diode problem, and the characteristics were as you describe them. Since relations between eZee and 50cycles had broken down at that time because of such faults, I doubt the faulty ones all found there way back to eZee, so yours could well be from them.

The other members one might respond ok to his conventional celled battery but still fail to work on yours.
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[Cyclezee]

It could be the chargers John. There were a batch of faulty HP chargers supplied with eZee bikes late last year and 50 cycles swapped lots of them. The fault was apparently a zener diode problem, and the characteristics were as you describe them. Since relations between eZee and 50cycles had broken down at that time because of such faults, I doubt the faulty ones all found there way back to eZee, so yours could well be from them.

The other members one might respond ok to his conventional celled battery but still fail to work on yours.
.

Thanks for the quick response Flecc. I will check the serial numbers and see how close they are. Anyone else with a faulty charger? I would be grateful if you could let me know the serial numbers. Mine are BL107 0800 386 (From forum member and originally supplied by 50c) and BL106 1000 386 (From 50c direct).


J hn

 

[flecc]

They look quite close numbers, considering that HP are probably the largest of the Chinese manufacturers of these, with numerous bikes using them, including Wisper now.

My 2006 HP is serial number BL 0601777 for example, radically different and well below yours numerically.
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[flecc]

P.S. If there are no other eZee members nearby whose charger you could try, I can post mine to you to try out and then post back. I can run on NiMh while it's away.
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[Cyclezee]

P.S. If there are no other eZee members nearby whose charger you could try, I can post mine to you to try out and then post back. I can run on NiMh while it's away.
.

Flecc,
that is an incredibly kind and generous offer, I really don't know what to say.
I really would not want to put you to that amount of trouble and will see if I can contact someone more local to me.
In the meantime, I am waiting to hear from the member that I swapped batteries with last night when I thought I had got a dud battery. If he is able to charge that one, it kind of confirms I have two dud chargers.

Once again thanks for the offer, you are without doubt a true gentleman.

J hn

 

[flecc]

No problem John. If you don't find anyone, don't hesitate to PM me an address to post it to.
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[Conal]

Chraging problems

John

I have just read the post, so put the battery we swapped last night on charge. For the first few seconds the yellow light came one but then the green light came on, seemed to flash slightly and then stayed on. I switched the charger off a couple of times and tried again. Exactly the same.
I have left the charger on (on green) and will see what power is in the battery after a few hours. My charger is at least a year old.

The batteries are still under warranty so I may drive to Brighton next week with those that are behaving in this way and ask Rhyss to test them. If you still have problems I will arrange to meet and collect your battery.

Conal

 

[Cyclezee]

Conal,

Sending you a PM

 

[MR E]

I had exactly the same problem with my Torq HP 2007 charger--S/N BL107 0800 682.

Also where I am located , it was a problem to test this out with a known good one.

I returned this to Cyclepoint for a test and they supplied me with a new one under warranty.

New charger working as it should-takes about 4-5 hours to charge up the battery when flat, and on reaching about 41.6 volts the green led kicks in and switches off the charge.

 

[MR E]

John

I have just read the post, so put the battery we swapped last night on charge. For the first few seconds the yellow light came one but then the green light came on, seemed to flash slightly and then stayed on. I switched the charger off a couple of times and tried again. Exactly the same.
I have left the charger on (on green) and will see what power is in the battery after a few hours. My charger is at least a year old.

The batteries are still under warranty so I may drive to Brighton next week with those that are behaving in this way and ask Rhyss to test them. If you still have problems I will arrange to meet and collect your battery.

Conal

Conal--the internal fuse within the battery can also give you the sympton that as soon as you connect up the charger to the battery - the green led comes on. If the internal fuse is blown you can check this without pulling the battery casing apart and invalidating the warranty.
If you check the voltage at pins at the bottom of the battery , you should get the same reading as at the charging pins 2 & 3. If no reading at these charging pins , then check continuity between the battery connections and the charger pins , and you may well see that you only get continuity on one connection. If this is the case then it could well be the internal fuse blown.
It is a "standard" car type 5amp ---if it is the older Li-ion type battery-XH370

 

[Cyclezee]

I had exactly the same problem with my Torq HP 2007 charger--S/N BL107 0800 682.

Also where I am located , it was a problem to test this out with a known good one.

I returned this to Cyclepoint for a test and they supplied me with a new one under warranty.

New charger working as it should-takes about 4-5 hours to charge up the battery when flat, and on reaching about 41.6 volts the green led kicks in and switches off the charge.

That's very interesting David, your serial number is not too far away from one I have BL107 0800 386, the other is BL 106 1000 386. However Conal has experienced the same problem with his charger which was until yesterday working OK and battery I returned to him. Very odd, is it battery or charger that is at fault.

I assume that your charger was originally supplied by 50cycles, but Cyclepoint were happy to replace it?

J hn

 

[flecc]

There are two of the fuses David refers to, the number 4 one accessible from outside and the internal number 6 in the photo below. You need to cut off this one's insulation to change it:

 

[MR E]

John

When I origonally asked Cyclepoint they mentioned the charger warranty was for 6 months , but then Flecc mentioned that as the charger was not a consumable , it should have a 12 month warranty.
Anyway posted the charger off to them to test , advised them of comments about warranty , and after a little while got a phone call to say they will replace it--no charge.

Anyway a quick test to check that the battery fuse is ok is just to stick a voltmeter in charging pins 2 & 3 and should get the battery voltage

 

[Cyclezee]

John

When I origonally asked Cyclepoint they mentioned the charger warranty was for 6 months , but then Flecc mentioned that as the charger was not a consumable , it should have a 12 month warranty.
Anyway posted the charger off to them to test , advised them of comments about warranty , and after a little while got a phone call to say they will replace it--no charge.

Anyway a quick test to check that the battery fuse is ok is just to stick a voltmeter in charging pins 2 & 3 and should get the battery voltage

Just tried that David, 38.4v (partially discharged) on the output connectors and 0v on the input side, therfore I will get a replacement fuse tomorrow and try again.
I also need to verify the date of manufacture of this battery when I find the serial number thread. I assumed it was a newer Sanyo celled Phylion, but from information you have provided, it may be one of the older type.

Thanks for your help.

John

 

[MR E]

You are correct , Flecc , I should have emphasised it is the internal fuse that gives this sympton.
Interesting though , that the internal fuse in your diagram shows a round type fuse in fuse holder , but my battery has the flat spade type fuse found in most modern cars.
I guess it is all down to battery manufacturers the type of protection they utilise.

 

[MR E]

Just tried that David, 38.4v (partially discharged) on the output connectors and 0v on the input side, therfore I will get a replacement fuse tomorrow and try again.
I also need to verify the date of manufacture of this battery when I find the serial number thread. I assumed it was a newer Sanyo celled Phylion, but from information you have provided, it may be one of the older type.

Thanks for your help.

John

Great news John-- sounds like it is that internal fuse- but it seems there could be different types of fuses , though , after seeing Flecc's diagram.

Anyway - as my battery was over 6 months old , had no hesitation in breaking the "warranty " seal.
Let us know how you get on.

 

[Cyclezee]

You are correct , Flecc , I should have emphasised it is the internal fuse that gives this sympton.
Interesting though , that the internal fuse in your diagram shows a round type fuse in fuse holder , but my battery has the flat spade type fuse found in most modern cars.
I guess it is all down to battery manufacturers the type of protection they utilise.

Ah, as it is the internal fuse and the battery should be under warranty, I wont break the seal to check it as this would invalidate warranty.

I'm now wondering why excatly the fuse would blow on 2 batteries?
Could it be a charger fault? I used the same charger to attemp to charge both batteries, then tried the second charger on both batteries, but by then the fuse was already blown?

John

 

[Cyclezee]

From the label on the battery, it was manufactured on 22/07/2008 so it is still under warranty.
Phylion
Hi-Energy Battery
XH370-10J
DC37.0 V
S/N JFBB100036AJH

I found this interesting post from PinkFloyd whilst searching.

"I agree with Flecc, the new Sanyo and new Ph****n batteries are absolutely superb and seem to go on forever compared to the older ones. I had a problem with a dodgy battery charger (High power) and a new one arrived yesterday...... It charged the Sanyo battery but wouldn't kick in with the Phylions.... after much head scratching I popped the hood on the phylions and noticed there's a 5amp Q-blade auto fuse inside..... had a look and, yup, they were blown on both Phylion batteries..... I can only assume the defective charger sent way more than 5amps into the batteries and BINGO! the fuses went.....

Replaced the 5amp Q-Blade fuse in both Phylions and, hey presto, they're taking a charge from the new battery charger so I'm a pretty happy bunny today I can tell you! At one point last night I was all ready to throw the bike, the batteries, the charger and myself out the friggin' window!

The new Sanyo battery is absolutely phenomenal on hills.... it NEVER goes into amber or red and the range is MUCH better than the old Phylion that came supplied with the bike.... I haven't really logged the range but will do now I have a working battery charger again Big thanks to Wai Won Ching, superb service indeed!!"

J hn

 

[flecc]

Your battery was the 36th made on the 22nd June 2008 John.

David, the battery I've photographed for my website was one of eZee's very first Li-ions, so there could well be minor variations over time.

The full innards are on this page.
.