Fault finding help

[Deleted member 4366]

Do the tests that I suggested above first just in case they show something. Also, have a very good look at the reinforced tracks. The light in the photos makes it difficult to see. Run around them with a point to make sure that there's no sh0rts to adjacent tracks. It's possible that they melted and some solder spilled over.

 

[iain85]

One last thing to try while you have the tester. Connect only the battery wires to the controller. Does the LED on the PCB flash? If so, what is the pattern? Connect the tester to the phase wires from the controller to test their output. Short the red and green throttle wires on the throttle connector. Do the tester LEDs flash? Does the controller LED flash pattern change? Take off the tester and connect the throttle. Does the PCB LED flash pattern change?


Just a few questions about your questions! : )

Your question about the LED on the pcb. Is this on the controller ? Or the tester ?

 

[iain85]

Yes, the photos show the track as darker than it actually is. I will have a look to see if any solder has spilled over. Thanks

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's a LED on the controller PCB. It's a surface-mount one, so not easy to spot until it flashes. It should flsh with a steady pattern on and off. Any other flashing sequence means an error, but I'm not sure if no throttle is an error.

 

[iain85]

Oh ok, once my daughter is in bed il investigate further.

 

[iain85]

Oh ok, once my daughter is in bed il investigate further.

So following on from what said about solder running I found this along the large track (shunt?) it looks to have melted across and is a touching a capacitor (I think?) connector. Picture to follow

 

[iain85]

This next one is the capacitor on the other side of the board.

 

[iain85]

 

[iain85]

Success!

After spotting the solder run that Dave suggested could of happened, I got a sharp knife and cleaned the mark and solder away to seperate the connections. I didn't have high expectations that this would work and expected maybe a damaged component resulting from the overspill.

So off to the garage to carry out my instructions...

So just been to the garage and plugged in the controller to do the tests Dave suggested. With just the battery plugged in I was getting a consistent red flash from the pcb roughly every second. With the phase out from the controller connected and the throttle shorted as indicated, the flash turned to two flashes in quick succession.
I then plugged in the throttle (Alex's new one) and the tested showed rotating LEDs which it hadn't done the previous occasion I used the tester. So I plugged the motor back in and twisted the throttle and we have rotation!


Dave and Alex.. You sirs are gentlemen. If we ever cross paths I shall by you both a beer and shake your hands.

Thanks a million. If I can be of service for advice on Central Heating/Gas related domestic issues, I'd be more than happy to help.


Alex, please send me your address and I'll return your tester tomorrow.

 

[iain85]

Forgot to ask, despite this working now, should I be concerned about the lower resistance reading on the yellow phase wire? Is this a problem looming?

 

[103Alex1]

Really glad you can get up and running again.

Forgot to ask, despite this working now, should I be concerned about the lower resistance reading on the yellow phase wire? Is this a problem looming?

Not sure on this but you shouldn't run the bike until you have cut off and replaced those connectors with Anderson Powerpoles (or something as good) or alternatively desoldered the 3 phase wires off the PCB and soldered on the motor lead directly to it (quickest and cheapest). Just don't create any solder bridges if you do

.... oh and get a rear brake cutout sorted soon as you can !

 

[iain85]

Cheers Alex!

Good idea about the phase wires. Yes, I'll solder the connections on directly. Avoiding any bridges! Lol

As to the brake cutout, any suggestions on this one? Could I use the on off switch from the throttle I got from you as an interrupter instead ? If so, which wires from the controller do they go to?

Also, are the power pole connector good enough for the battery supply? The kettle plugs supplied sometimes vibrate loose. How do you prevent your self from being electrocuted when changing the supply connector?

Cheers,

Don't forget to send me your address.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm glad you got it sorted. You need to drizzle some solder on those thick tracks. The reinforcing wires should be covered. Run a sharp point round afterwards to make sure there's no new bridges. Next solder and insulate your phase connections. You can always cut them if you have to disassemble in the future.

I forgot that there's two pairs of FETs for each phase, so it's possible one FET is damaged. When you get on the road, check that the motor runs smoothly, and that you get the same power and efficiency. Also, check that the controller doesn't get hot. Hopefully, everything will be OK

If you've got cable brakes, I've got an inline brake sensor you can have cheaply. If you want it, send me a PM.

For anybody else reading: Never overwhelm your motor with the brakes unless it's an absolute emergency, and then do it for as short a time as possible. Stop, jump off quickly and lay the bike on its side with the wheel spinning while you figure out how to disconnect the battery.

 

[iain85]

Thanks,

I will load the tracks up as instructed. My brakes are hydraulic but thanks for the offer. How is the switch wired in? I have some micro switches that I may be able to modify to be activated by the brake lever.

I will spend some time at the weekend getting things modified.

Thanks again.

 

[103Alex1]

Cheers Alex!

Good idea about the phase wires. Yes, I'll solder the connections on directly. Avoiding any bridges! Lol

As to the brake cutout, any suggestions on this one? Could I use the on off switch from the throttle I got from you as an interrupter instead ? If so, which wires from the controller do they go to?

Also, are the power pole connector good enough for the battery supply? The kettle plugs supplied sometimes vibrate loose. How do you prevent your self from being electrocuted when changing the supply connector?

Cheers,

Don't forget to send me your address.

As d8veh says you can just cut off the phase bullet connectors and splice the wires together. Much easier than soldering on to PCB.

I'm not sure on the button but it seems a good idea to use it as a throttle signal interruptor. I guess you'd need to splice the throttle wires over it somehow if it is basically a momentary switch but I'm not sure exactly how .. maybe Dave can work that one out as it would be a neat solution.

These powerpoles are fine for your battery power supply to controller interface :

10 X ANDERSON POWERPOLE 45 AMP ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR PLUG, GOLF TROLLEY, KIT CAR | eBay

The contacts crimp but there is an insertion tool to get the contacts into the connectors :

INSERTION/EXTRACTION TOOL FOR 30AMP & 45AMP ANDERSON POWERPOLE CONTACTS | eBay

It saves some cursing, patience and fiddling with multimeter probes to push them home but for only a few you can also manage without.

If you are changing them why not fit an inline fuse at the same time :

1 x SPLASHPROOF INLINE 40amp RATING STANDARD BLADE FUSE HOLDER ATO CAR AUTO | eBay

You can see one installed on the bottom photo of my battery here :

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/uk-off-road-s-pedelecs-overseas/13813-cst-its-all-working-12.html#post181555

I swapped out the fuse for an LED glow-fuse from here :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-40A-Amp-MAXI-Blade-Fuse-Quantity-1-/111025140277

When you remove the kettle plug don't damage the inner wire insulation or short the wires as you may end up with no BMS. Carefully remove the outer insulation then cut one wire at a time and cover the end with electrical tape.

Work on one wire at a time with the other covered or housed in a Powerpole. MOST IMPORTANTLY - don't go by wire colours to determine polarity and don;t believe any markings on kettle plugs as to +/-. The battery has AC wires & Chinese fitting on it and you need to use a multimeter then check and check again when you pair up the powerpole connector fittings.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The red switch in the throttle can be used as an on/off switch. Cut the thin red wire that goes from the controller to the battery positive. Join the battery side of it to the yellow wire, and the controller side to the brown and green wires. When the switch is on, the power will come on along with the throttle LEDs.

To make a brake switch, you can use any two-wire switch that switches on when the brakes are applied. Reed switches are useful because you can fix them to the lever holder and then glue a magnet to the lever so that the magnet moves away from the reed and switches it on. There's three types of reed switch: Normally open; normally closed; bimodal. You need normally closed or bimodal. Here's a bimodal one. they're glass, so you have to be careful with them:
Reed Switch Changeover (SPDT) 0.2A change over N/C N/O reedswitch XGH-3Z small | eBay

or this one , but with a block neodymium magnet:
Optional / NO Door Window Contact Magnetic Reed Switch Alarm Distance 10-25mm | eBay

50 Strong Neodymium Block Magnets 5x5x2 mm Grade N40 craft magic 5mm x 5mm x 2mm | eBay

 

[103Alex1]

The red switch in the throttle can be used as an on/off switch. Cut the thin red wire that goes from the controller to the battery positive. Join the battery side of it to the yellow wire, and the controller side to the brown and green wires. When the switch is on, the power will come on along with the throttle LEDs.

That sounds a very easy solution - a bit of a 'no brainer' for people using that particular throttle on a simple setup. Does it act as a master power isolator and allow the battery to be left connected to the controller without latent power drain as well ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It doesn't isolate the battery, but should be good for switching off overnight or maybe longer.

The battery wires go straight to the motor, but are blocked by the FETs. There's a separate branch from it that's reduced down in voltage to power the controller. This power goes through the ignition wire if you have one, which is where you can put a switch. When it has no power the FETs are off, which is like the separate switch I made for you. There's one big capacitor across the battery lines, which will leak a tiny bit of current, but I've heard (though never checked out) that it sometimes has a resistor to drain it, which would cause a few milliamps to flow. Obviously, if you have other stuff connected to the battery, like a wattmeter, DC/DC converter, etc, these won't be switched off, although they could be powered from the switched side of the switch.

 

[iain85]

Thanks chaps, I think is I'll get the anderson connectors ordered and get the mods done before risking using it again, although since its been out of action for so long I'm like a kid at Christmas!

With regards to wiring the brake switch in Dave, if I fit it inline with the throttle on-off wires (green and brown) will that be sufficient? (assuming I've wired the on off button as you indicated).

Also when adding extra solder to the tracks, is it okay to use foil backed tape to stop the flow of solder pouring out everywhere?
Cheers,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You wire the brake switch to the yellow and black wires at the controller, which is why they're there.

To solder your tracks, put your soldering iron on the track and melt some solder on to it. Allow some time to fully heat up, then addmore solder as you move your iron along. Each time you move to a different position, allow plenty of time to heat up.