Getting me, my child and 4 bottles of beer up a mountain!

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
44,692
21,110
He also suggested a front hub motor. But said some people don’t like to do this as there can be a risk of accident. But said I could go for a lot of watts with this option and it might be good to balance out the weight as my child is on the back.
That's not good advice because the front is light. A powerful front hub motor can just wheelspin, especially on a loose or damp surface.
.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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One problem with front hub can be grip on hills, could be an issue for you where you mentioned gravel on the hills. Child seat on the back could make that worse. (whoops, missed flecc's post) (We have tandem with the XF07 on front ... with weight distribution on the tandem it has never been an issue.)

Another is that it requires strong stout front forks and careful fitting (especially with suspension forks) ... as long as those are OK there shouldn't be any extra accident risk.
 

KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
3,165
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Brighton
A 250w Bafang bbs01 will haul you, your boy and luggage up anything you like

I have one my mtb and have hauled my twins in a towing carrier up to top of South downs with a picnic also. In low gear so not fast but that's not the aim here

If you can find or stretch to the above Bafang motor I dont think you'll be disappointed. The xf07 i also own and it doesn't have the same torque, having said that it is a great little motor with way more torque that I had expected from the small package.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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6 - 7 miles up hill is a big ask for any motor, low gearing and a good cadence is essential. Gearing for BBS01 is vital if you don't want to fry the controller. You need to be very fit and a Hoy or a Thomas to climb that mileage with 10% inclines.

With the hub motor you tried it really depends on the motor rpm , for hill climbing you need high torque hub a 201rpm wound one or lower rpm. Getting a hub lower then 201rpm is like finding a hen with teeth. Front hub is not ideal for hill climbing if the terrain is loose or you have a lot of rear weight, so either a mid drive with low gearing or 201 rpm hub also will benefit from low gearing as well.

Use a good system with lcd & 5 - 0 levels of assist power to give up to 500w of assistance but be warned 6 -7 miles at high assist will and can fry controllers and motors so use extra power only when needed, you will need a good battery.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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Search the forum for Xiongda two speed hub it might be the answer for your needs.
Does need a bit of technical expertise to strectch the rear forks to about 145 - 150mm.
 
Mar 12, 2020
28
2
Yo
One problem with front hub can be grip on hills, could be an issue for you where you mentioned gravel on the hills. Child seat on the back could make that worse. (whoops, missed flecc's post) (We have tandem with the XF07 on front ... with weight distribution on the tandem it has never been an issue.)

Another is that it requires strong stout front forks and careful fitting (especially with suspension forks) ... as long as those are OK there shouldn't be any extra accident risk.
Your tandem sounds amazing!

yer I’m not sure about this bike. Just bought it out here.

back home I have this bike...


I want to bring it with me but the boyfriend said no. House building things are apparently more important! *eyes roll*

I would have had to put disc brakes on her and she also has no gears.

I wonder if I can transfer the Bafang I might be buying to her at a later date?

she is nice and light.
 
Mar 12, 2020
28
2
A 250w Bafang bbs01 will haul you, your boy and luggage up anything you like

I have one my mtb and have hauled my twins in a towing carrier up to top of South downs with a picnic also. In low gear so not fast but that's not the aim here

If you can find or stretch to the above Bafang motor I dont think you'll be disappointed. The xf07 i also own and it doesn't have the same torque, having said that it is a great little motor with way more torque that I had expected from the small package.
thank you for the comment! It’s good to hear a piece of real experience of the motor!

Which one is the next one up? The 02?

whoosh said in one of the early comments if I go with a more powerful motor it might create more heat and the more powerful the motor the faster it likes you to pedal? Is that right? Trying to get my head round it all!

I just have a bit of trepidation about going for a 250 motor as I hired the 250 hub motor and I didn’t manage it. Maybe I should go the slightly longer route with the less steep incline.

anyhow it’s all about the torque right? Enough torque and low enough a gear? If I want to go steep but not fast?
 
Mar 12, 2020
28
2
Th
6 - 7 miles up hill is a big ask for any motor, low gearing and a good cadence is essential. Gearing for BBS01 is vital if you don't want to fry the controller. You need to be very fit and a Hoy or a Thomas to climb that mileage with 10% inclines.

With the hub motor you tried it really depends on the motor rpm , for hill climbing you need high torque hub a 201rpm wound one or lower rpm. Getting a hub lower then 201rpm is like finding a hen with teeth. Front hub is not ideal for hill climbing if the terrain is loose or you have a lot of rear weight, so either a mid drive with low gearing or 201 rpm hub also will benefit from low gearing as well.

Use a good system with lcd & 5 - 0 levels of assist power to give up to 500w of assistance but be warned 6 -7 miles at high assist will and can fry controllers and motors so use extra power only when needed, you will need a good battery.
Thank you. All useful info. So say I were to get the Bafang 01? I set the heating low then or as I am riding?

I don’t know about the hub. He was a lovely guy I hired it off but didn’t speak much English and I don’t speak much Turkish so we matched! As you say they are rare it probably wasn’t 201rpm.

I’m definitely going for a mid motor anyhow. If anything I think I will just like the feel of it more. Felt a bit out of control at set off with a hub.

so a Bafang 500 watt? That will do the trick? Concerning the battery do I get a 500watt to match the motor or can I mix and match? Bit confused on that front. I have heard the controller has to be good and was going to opt for the best one available. How do you decide controller voltage?
 
Mar 12, 2020
28
2
Search the forum for Xiongda two speed hub it might be the answer for your needs.
Does need a bit of technical expertise to strectch the rear forks to about 145 - 150mm.
thanks I’ll give it a search but as I said I’m not sure if I like the feel of a hub. If that makes any sense!
 
Mar 12, 2020
28
2
So I haven’t ordered yet and I’m pretty sure this is the wrong setup for my bike. Not sure what the right set up is!

But added to my cart on green bikes.com to see how much shipping is to Turkey. It’s £112.

Does anyone know what set up to go for?

The form asks questions I simply don’t know the answer to.
 

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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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your shopping list is OK except for the battery.
you have selected 36V 10AH Chinese cells 10S4P.
This is not good enough for long service because the cells are weaker (2500mAH cells against the more typical 3000mAH-3500mAH) than modern cells. The combination you chose will still get you up the mountain but put a lot of stress on the battery, reducing its life.
You should try to get 36V 13AH with branded cells.
The freight charge (£112) is a bit excessive from Germany but because you have a battery, you don't have much choice. You should try to buy your battery locally.
 
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sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
991
554
Looking again at the simulator (for BBS02 as nearest it has to BBS01) this combination looks much better (as Woosh said), getting near to 80% efficiency. If they can supply it I'd go for even fewer front teeth, or make sure you have lots of teeth on your largest rear cog.


I think for all this effort you will deserve more than 4x beers though.
 
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Mar 12, 2020
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your shopping list is OK except for the battery.
you have selected 36V 10AH Chinese cells 10S4P.
This is not good enough for long service because the cells are weaker (2500mAH cells against the more typical 3000mAH-3500mAH) than modern cells. The combination you chose will still get you up the mountain but put a lot of stress on the battery, reducing its life.
You should try to get 36V 13AH with branded cells.
The freight charge (£112) is a bit excessive from Germany but because you have a battery, you don't have much choice. You should try to buy your battery locally.
should I just buy the best battery I can afford in the drop down menu? does the watt of the battery have to be 250 to match the motor or can you go higher?

Then can I get any controller or does that have to match up to the battery and motor somehow?

Seems strange to go for 250watts when the 250watt hub motor didn’t work out for me but I think I’m getting it now. Mid drives are different and the higher you go the faster your legs must go. And it’s about torque and so on...

At least with 250watts I won’t have to deal with all the legal jazz!
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
13,306
10,468
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Seems strange to go for 250watts when the 250watt hub motor didn’t work out for me but I think I’m getting it now. Mid drives are different and the higher you go the faster your legs must go. And it’s about torque and so on...
they are not measured by the same units.
The motor power is in Watts, battery in Watt Hours (36Volts * 10AH (Amp Hours) = 360 Watt Hours.
You will need about 25WH-30WH per mile to climb up the mountain, 5WH per mile to get down.
If the route is 6 miles, then you will need 6 miles up, 30WH * 6 = 180WH, and 3 miles down, 5WH * 6 = 30WH, total 210WH.
So your 36V 10AH battery should be enough (360WH) to do the trip (210WH required).

should I just buy the best battery I can afford in the drop down menu? does the watt of the battery have to be 250 to match the motor or can you go higher?
You are not heavy by our standard, you don't need to splash out on the very best battery. Just go up a step to 13AH.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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should I just buy the best battery I can afford in the drop down menu? does the watt of the battery have to be 250 to match the motor or can you go higher?

Then can I get any controller or does that have to match up to the battery and motor somehow?

Seems strange to go for 250watts when the 250watt hub motor didn’t work out for me but I think I’m getting it now. Mid drives are different and the higher you go the faster your legs must go. And it’s about torque and so on...

At least with 250watts I won’t have to deal with all the legal jazz!
People are blinkered when it comes to hub motors as they don't understand the rpm /speed of the motor winding. Hub motors come in various rpm windings from the factory, a higher rpm hub 280 - 330 rpm are for speed and lower torque ideal for faster flat riding with some low inclines. A 201 rpm hub is for lower speed riding and give high torque for steeper hills, unless one actually knows the rpm winding of a hub then you can't simply say hubs are no good. Some are more capable then others.
 
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Mar 12, 2020
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Having trouble already. It won’t slide in. My boyfriend said he is going to ‘ruin the frame a bit to make it fit. I don’t like the sound of that :rolleyes:
 

531colin

Just Joined
Apr 3, 2020
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Hi all
New member piggy-backing on this thread as its pretty close to what I will want to do. (Hope that's OK?) I'm a lifetime touring cyclist, and I'm looking for a way to get a bit of assistance to replace the strength that the last couple of years have taken away.
I live in Yorkshire and I love the steep lanes and tracks in the Dales; my touring bikes are geared really low (24T front to 34T rear). I want to retain gearing like that, to ride alongside my current riding companions; I don't want something I can charge about on like a motor bike. The ready-made E bikes I have seen don't seem to be geared that low, so that when it gets really steep (25%) the riders have to work really hard to keep going, whereas I used to be able to slowly winch my way up.
So I'm looking at a Bafang mid motor, Shimano 12 speed MTB transmission gives me a 51 T rear sprocket, with the Bafang 42 T chainring that gives me a bottom gear almost as low as my current one (without the need for a double chainset) and a reasonable size sprocket for "cruising gears". (and a higher top gear than now, not that I will use it!) The chainline for the SLX Shimano stuff is 52mm, does that suit the Bafang?
I will need to source a frame/fork to take Boost hubs.
Thanks for any help/comments!
Oh, and a button for "walking assist" would be good for the tracks!
 

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