ghost bikes in london ??

[richard]

Interesting concept,

I admire the initiative

but will it make a ha'p'orth of difference ?

I doubt it

what do you think

richard

 

[frank9755]

Extremely misguided.

Let's not try to make cycling appear more dangerous than it is. Stunts like this hugely over-emphasise the risks and put people off cycling.

From a health and life expectancy point of view, just about the most dangerous thing a cyclist can do is stop cycling.

They can only do it because very few cyclists actually get killed on the roads. Imagine if they did it with cars.

 

[DBCohen]

Interesting concept,

I admire the initiative

but will it make a ha'p'orth of difference ?

I doubt it

what do you think

richard

Had to comment without knowing what you are talking about...this?

Microtrends: Ghost Bikes - Times Online

From my own point of view, you are right that cycling is safer than many assume. But you still get the occasional idiot who behaves in such a way to be a danger to other road users, especially those of the two-wheeled variety.

If this gives even one of the hot-heads pause for thought, and perhaps improves their attitude to cyclists, it could prevent a death or injury. You'll never prove that effect, but isn't it worth the effort for that outcome?

David.

 

[frank9755]

I think my point is just that - it isn't worth doing this for the outcome you describe. The negative impact is likely to be much greater than any positive impact in persuading others to alter their driving habits.

It reminds me of seeing, as a child, dead crows in fields, having been shot by farmers and hung from gates or trees. The farmers did it not to discourage lunatic farmers from shooting birds, but to stop other crows eating their crops! I suspect this would have a similar effect. The drivers you describe would most probably not notice these memorials.

 

[DBCohen]

I think my point is just that - it isn't worth doing this for the outcome you describe. The negative impact is likely to be much greater than any positive impact in persuading others to alter their driving habits.

It reminds me of seeing, as a child, dead crows in fields, having been shot by farmers and hung from gates or trees. The farmers did it not to discourage lunatic farmers from shooting birds, but to stop other crows eating their crops! I suspect this would have a similar effect. The drivers you describe would most probably not notice these memorials.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, that? None of them would notice it? Not even one? Ever?

My point is that we often spend a lot of time grumbling about certain classes of driver on this board and others. But if nobody ever makes any sort of effort to educate others on the challenges we face and the courtesies we should expect, then that situation will never improve. Maybe ghost bikes are not the best way, they certainly should not be the ONLY way - but at least it is a proactive approach, it is doing something rather than grousing among the like-minded.

The memorials in themselves say nothing about the scale of the danger - only that a bike user was killed - a fact. The media reporting around them, well that is something that could be (and probably will be) sensationalised. Again, that is countered by the community speaking up and putting the balanced view across. The balanced voice is also what will let people know that cycling on the roads is safer than they imagine.

So here is a counter question - who in this country is putting the real view of cycling forward to the media and the public? Who should be doing it, and how effective are they?

David.

 

[frank9755]

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, that? None of them would notice it? Not even one? Ever?

Yes, it is a sweeping generalisation, but it's not what I said!

My point is that we often spend a lot of time grumbling about certain classes of driver on this board and others. But if nobody ever makes any sort of effort to educate others on the challenges we face and the courtesies we should expect, then that situation will never improve.

I agree with this to an extent. I think education is valuable, but cyclists, like everyone, need to look at themselves first and learn how to ride safely in traffic rather than adopting a victim mentality by default and blaming someone else. If you read the page on the ghost bikes sites its got a list of accidents where the cyclist has described what has happened. In many cases it is 'hit by left turning vehicle' or 'vehicle in front of me stopped suddenly'. Those are actually bad cycling, resulting from overtaking on the inside and tailgating. Cyclists do need to remember that it is our responsibility to keep learning how to ride safely on the road as much as the responsibility of motorists

who in this country is putting the real view of cycling forward to the media and the public? Who should be doing it, and how effective are they?

Who is doing it?
A variety of groups including CTC, London Cycling Campaign and even the Pedelecs Forum! I'm sure there are many others I'm not aware of, representing different types of cycling including professional racing and the Olympics, mountain biking, road racing, triathlon, etc.

Who should be?
I don't know

How effective are they?
Probably mixed - some successes and some failures. I don't think shortage of groups is the problem!

 

[Mussels]

At best it tells me that some idiot did something stupid there and a lot of the time it distracts rubberneckers who want to see what's there. It's a dangerous practice and I think if people putting up (any) shrines for others that they never knew should be prosecuted* to try and stop this stupid idea.
A county council started putting up shrines to pretend dead people where there had not been any fatal accidents but some moron thought it was a good idea, just shows how pointless they are.

* I have no idea what they would be prosecuted for but a deliberate distraction or obstruction on the highway must be legislated against somewhere.

 

[flecc]

* I have no idea what they would be prosecuted for but a deliberate distraction or obstruction on the highway must be legislated against somewhere.

Littering, fly tipping.
.

 

[flecc]

It's not often that government deserves praise, but I think it's central government and London's government that deserve praise for probably doing the most to promote cycling.

It's since they started campaigning for cycling increase that there has been a huge expansion, in London for example by over 83% in the last 7 years.

While others like the CTC have worked at it, they've been doing it for countless years and achieved very little, and indeed presided over a massive decline in cycling from 1960 into the 1990s, following which government actions started growing it again.

So just for once, a very rare acknowledgment for our legislators and civil service. Yes, they could do better, but they've tried and made a very real difference.
.