Hi All from an Early Adopter - paying the price

[swisspace]

Hi from am expat living in Switzerland

I was searching for a bit of advice and came across this forum which solved the issue - in this case hit the crank with a hammer (gen1 bosch drive - pedals spinning) and it seemed like a nice friendly forum so thought I would join.

I bought my first pedelec - BH Jumper four years ago - I had been thinking about it for a while and while I am loathe to use love at first site for a bicycle I bought it and have been commuting on it daily ever since - the commute through the forest is is a great start to teh day although its a been a bit too snowy and icy recently I have been using the normal paths with spiked tyres. Can't say its been green or cheap to own and run - in fact a small car would have been cheaper over the 4 years (main cost issue was battery failing just out of the two year warranty, most difficult to find was the frayed torque sensor wire in the frame), the dealer closing didn't help either, but it has been great FUN

18 months ago I purchased an ex demo haikike with bosch gen 1 motor taking a more considered approach after my troubles with the BH and BH - checking at the tme motors and batteries were readily available on ebay. Its been much more reliable than the BH but the BH is power delivery is much nicer. It only let me down once and that was recently when the front sprocket plastic retaining ring broke - luckily the dealer has the parts but when I picked it up without testing I later discovered the pedals freely turned whilst the chain stayed still - hence the tap with rubber mallet.

What it made me realise though is that a lot of these bikes are going to be worthless and just scrap should the battery or motor no longer function.

I would be interested to know how others feel about long term ownership

 

[swisspace]

 

[Nealh]

The more bespoke oem bikes with Bosch/Yamaha drives etc may well prove to be more expensive to own run esp with their battery prices come replacement time as it appears that any battery will not do also costs may spiral once any guarantee runs out. However less bespoke hub bikes without integral/semi integral placed batteries are easier to find a battery for and wire in. Also the hub drive bike and even more so the kit bike /diy build are much easier to be able to repair and cheaper as even the likes of controllers etc are quite cheap to buy
You can get LCD, controller and all the other associated parts for less then £100 and a very good 15ah battery for under £300 which should be good for 3-5 yrs.

 

[Benjahmin]

Sorry to hear you've been having an expensive time of it.
I avoided these costly branded machines and went the conversion route. As Nealh says, all parts are available individually and you are not tied to one manufacturer. I don't commute but have had 3500 miles out of my conversion with only a motor bearing replaced, did it myself, try that with a Bosch motor. Two years on and battery is fine, but I'm also secure in the knowledge that when it does fail I can get it re-celled in the same case.
To me converting leads to a greater understanding of my bike and how it works and how to fix it when it doesn't. And to top it all I can take the kit off and still have a useable/saleable bike.
But that's me, hope you have a better time with the Haibike.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I also worry about battery prices, so I only buy ebikes with standard Chinese batteries, which I can buy from any Chinese reseller. Battery technology is improving every year. Chinese bikes have mainly simple and modular electric systems, so you can always fit an alternative battery when you want.

I like to see and try all the innovations that manufacturers use on their ebikes, but I want to be self-sufficient and in control of the costs for my own bike. My bike cost £1100 to make nearly 3 years ago. It's done about 4000 miles and the only additional cost in that time has been a gear cable, which was about £3. If I took the electrical stuff off, I could probably sell it for about £500, so you can say £200 a year or £0.15 a mile, which is still quite a lot. I reckon that those Bosch bikes, etc work out more expensive than running a car!

 

[swisspace]

Having covered around 8000 miles now on ebikes I have come to the same conclusion and when the motor or batteries fail I will go with a self build, that can be converted back if needed and probably with a belt and alfino gear setup. I only remember one conversion kit around when I bought my BH and it didn't look very good - it seems there is lots of choice now.

I wasn't helped by the fact the dealer went bust and although BH spares were much cheaper in the UK they were slow to arrive - I was told the importer went bust. After a spell ordering stuff from Canada I have found a local dealer in switzerland who can get the parts fast and seems to not be too much more expensive.

I was quoted 1200CHF for the BH battery which failed just out of warranty but managed to get it in the UK for just over half that. Now I believe you can pay a minimal amount to extend the battery guarantee for an extra two years.

Financially its been expensive but I generally love riding the BH (range rover) compared to the haibike with bosch motor (defender) they are fun

I wasn't too worried about the batteries as I thought they could be rebuilt as I am sure the insides are standard maybe I will have a go at repairing the old pack one day

 

[ttxela]

I also worry about battery prices, so I only buy ebikes with standard Chinese batteries, which I can buy from any Chinese reseller. Battery technology is improving every year. Chinese bikes have mainly simple and modular electric systems, so you can always fit an alternative battery when you want.

I like to see and try all the innovations that manufacturers use on their ebikes, but I want to be self-sufficient and in control of the costs for my own bike. My bike cost £1100 to make nearly 3 years ago. It's done about 4000 miles and the only additional cost in that time has been a gear cable, which was about £3. If I took the electrical stuff off, I could probably sell it for about £500, so you can say £200 a year or £0.15 a mile, which is still quite a lot. I reckon that those Bosch bikes, etc work out more expensive than running a car!

More expensive than running a car - well I hope not, since I bought one to try and save money! £0.15 a mile is not too bad. I changed my job 10 years ago to avoid driving for work as the then £0.40/mile rate I was being paid for mileage wasn't covering my costs with a fairly economical diesel car. I'm pretty sure the current £0.45/mile doesn't now.

 

[swisspace]

I think it depends which pedelec you get - hopefully for evryone else I was very unlucky with mine having to replace the battery just after two years but remember to factor in the depreciation of the bike which if its a custom built model will probably be worthless if the motor or battery fails after 4 years, plus they seem to need as much maintenance as a ferrari with brake pads and tyres needing changing fairly often when compared to a car so I think ownership costs are close, maybe new models are better but without a standard shaped motors or battery packs - IMHO self build is the only way to keep depreciation costs low. For me though the grin factor during the commute makes up for all the expense

 

[ttxela]

I guess it all depends if you are replacing a car or running alongside, I've kept my car so even if I'm riding the bike into work the car is still sitting at home costing in tax and insurance (it's an old Celica so I can probably disregard depreciation - the diesel car is long gone).

So far I've done around 240 miles in 3 weeks commuting on the bike so at the £0.45/mile rate I've perhaps saved £100 or so. Enough to pay for the petrol for the weekend away I had in the car last week.

Plus the Celica gets to live a little longer perhaps.

I spent 1500 on the bike so just on Petrol Savings alone if I continue to commute on the bike at the same level I can afford to replace it every year and break even!

 

[Benjahmin]

Then there's the less tangible things like health and well being, who can measure the value of the e bike grin?
For me a £255 pound bike with a kit that came from my much older steel frame bike. The Ezee kit certainly isn't the cheapest but it's already in its second incarnation. 157 charging cycles and around 4000 miles on, and it's going strong.
A much cheaper mid-life crisis than a Morgan or Austin Healy 3000
Although I am starting to research a recumbent for conversion and that looks like it's gonna work out a wee bit pricey. I've already promised to build she who must a nice cwtch in the garden as a distraction.

 

[chris130256]

I had this in the back of my mind when I bought our 2 Haibikes last year. I chuck a fiver in the kitty every time the bikes are used to cover a new battery and/or motor in the future. The retail price of these components are stupid and should be half price at least. The Yamaha parts are made by the thousands but I can't find anywhere in Japan that could supply them. If emtb's are going to be taken seriously, this 'Cottage industry' has got to get sorted or it will die a death.
I can see me going the route of building my own in future too.

 

[Danidl]

I think it depends which pedelec you get - hopefully for evryone else I was very unlucky with mine having to replace the battery just after two years but remember to factor in the depreciation of the bike which if its a custom built model will probably be worthless if the motor or battery fails after 4 years, plus they seem to need as much maintenance as a ferrari with brake pads and tyres needing changing fairly often when compared to a car so I think ownership costs are close, maybe new models are better but without a standard shaped motors or battery packs - IMHO self build is the only way to keep depreciation costs low. For me though the grin factor during the commute makes up for all the expense

Cost of ownership equilavent ??? Look a new car costs 15 to 20k, needs to be taxed and insured each year and tyres replaced ever three years and the battery after say 5 years . Servicing is another expense. There are toll costs and parking costs to be considered and then of course the actual fuel used, which is probably the least expensive sum of all those listed.
Cost per mile is not a useful comparison. Since cars travel 8 times faster and will be used on longer journeys.
Why would anyone use an ebike for commuting in comparison to a car.
1. If the journey is short 3 to 8 miles longer is possible but beyond 15 would be a real chore.
2 save on parking costs
3. Save on fuel
4. Freedom
5. Travel through city centre by car is brutally slow. Bike is more predictable.
And if the pleasure of not having a car is realised , a significant reduction in capital outlay.

 

[Danidl]

Cost of ownership equilavent ??? Look a new car costs 15 to 20k, needs to be taxed and insured each year and tyres replaced ever three years and the battery after say 5 years . Servicing is another expense. There are toll costs and parking costs to be considered and then of course the actual fuel used, which is probably the least expensive sum of all those listed.
Cost per mile is not a useful comparison. Since cars travel 8 times faster and will be used on longer journeys.
Why would anyone use an ebike for commuting in comparison to a car.
1. If the journey is short 3 to 8 miles longer is possible but beyond 15 would be a real chore.
2 save on parking costs
3. Save on fuel
4. Freedom
5. Travel through city centre by car is brutally slow. Bike is more predictable.
And if the pleasure of not having a car is realised , a significant reduction in capital outlay.

.... Car tyres cost me about 150 euro each , bike tyres 15 to 25 . And there are 4 not 2
Car brake pads fitted are much dearer than the 10 euro. For supermarket bike pads.

 

[ttxela]

For me it's not simply about the cost/mile comparison, it's also about prolonging the life of a well loved car that I can't resist driving hard if I do use it