Hi please can anyone help???

[james111]

I have been toying with the idea of purchasing an electric bike for some time and have been reading up on all the different types of Ebikes that are available, I have not set aside a budget for what I want to spend all I know is that I have a very big hill that I am sick of pushing my normal bike up which is now starting to get me down hence the reason for this cry for help.
A friend of mine has an electric bike which I did manage to have a go, it was very good but not quite what I was expected in terms of its assistance and power that it gave you....
Can anybody shed some light on this and help point me in the right direction as to what is good and what is bad, Something I have come across is a hub motor and a crank motor can anybody tell me what the pro’s and con’s are and what the difference is from one to another.
Thanks
James

 

[flecc]

People are often disappointed withe the assistance given by e-bikes James, but they are just electric assist and limited in power by law. It's on hills just where the assistance is needed that they fall most short of course.

The two approaches to this are hub motors of as much power as can be permitted, basically the brute force approach, or crank motors and the like which drive through the chain and bicycle gears. That gives the latter the advantage of being able to select the gear for the climb in exactly the way one does with a car or motorcycle, making the best of the available power.

Because there's only so much bicycle gearing systems can take, the motors on crank drives tend to be lower powered, so the rider often still has to make a fair contribution.

The end result is that many hub motors tend to be faster as standard and faster up gentle slopes, and it's often possibly on throttle controlled bikes to ride without pedalling for long stretches, but they struggle on steep hills where the rider has to work harder. Most crank drives are a touch slower as standard, but can climb just about any hill and are more economical, often with longer ranges. However most crank drive types have to be pedalled all the time to get power (pedelec control).

There's the odd exceptions to these, a couple of low powered hub motor bikes and one crank drive kit system that can be bought with high power, so it's important to try before buying to make sure you like the type of bike and that it will do the job you want.

It's impossible to suggest models from so many available without knowing what you want to do, your journey lengths and the steepness of any gradient you might tackle.
.

 

[james111]

People are often disappointed withe the assistance given by e-bikes James, but they are just electric assist and limited in power by law. It's on hills just where the assistance is needed that they fall most short of course.

The two approaches to this are hub motors of as much power as can be permitted, basically the brute force approach, or crank motors and the like which drive through the chain and bicycle gears. That gives the latter the advantage of being able to select the gear for the climb in exactly the way one does with a car or motorcycle, making the best of the available power.

Because there's only so much bicycle gearing systems can take, the motors on crank drives tend to be lower powered, so the rider often still has to make a fair contribution.

The end result is that many hub motors tend to be faster as standard and faster up gentle slopes, and it's often possibly on throttle controlled bikes to ride without pedalling for long stretches, but they struggle on steep hills where the rider has to work harder. Most crank drives are a touch slower as standard, but can climb just about any hill and are more economical, often with longer ranges. However most crank drive types have to be pedalled all the time to get power (pedelec control).

There's the odd exceptions to these, a couple of low powered hub motor bikes and one crank drive kit system that can be bought with high power, so it's important to try before buying to make sure you like the type of bike and that it will do the job you want.

It's impossible to suggest models from so many available without knowing what you want to do, your journey lengths and the steepness of any gradient you might tackle.
.

Hi Flecc,

Wow did not expect to get a response that quick! (Thank you)
Thinking about what you said I think I would prefer just a peddlec bike as I still want to keep fit and enjoying the exercise and not fall in to trap of being lazy. I imagine I should be then thinking about a crank motor rather than the hub motor. I live in East Sussex and have quite a few hills to tackle, what options I have on a bike that can offer me this set up.

 

[james111]

Hi Flecc,

Wow did not expect to get a response that quick! (Thank you)
Thinking about what you said I think I would prefer just a peddlec bike as I still want to keep fit and enjoying the exercise and not fall in to trap of being lazy. I imagine I should be then thinking about a crank motor rather than the hub motor. I live in East Sussex and have quite a few hills to tackle, what options I have on a bike that can offer me this set up.

Hi sorry,

I have around trip of 18 miles every day.

Regards

James

 

[flecc]

It basically comes down to the Panasonic motor equipped bikes for best hill climbing James. There is an alternative crank motor from Yamaha on a Gepida bike now, but the review on it did express some minor doubts and it's a very new product.

There are various Panasonic motored models available in the UK, and here's the main choices:

Kalkhoff from 50cycles

Gazelle Easy Glider from some dealers.

BH Emotion from OnBike

The Kalkhoff and BH bikes come in various styles from utility to sporting, the Gazelle Easy Glider in utility style. All these Panasonic equipped models are at the expensive end of e-bike prices, these systems not being cheap to produce, but all the above three makes are very high quality European production, not Chinese made.

We always strongly recommend you try to get test rides to ensure you are suited by a bike's system, and it's worth travelling to do that if necessary. Since the Panasonic system always works the same way, it would only really be necessary to try one to have a good idea of all three, only leaving the style etc to choose by. In the case of these bikes for example you do need to put in about half the required effort when riding, the motor providing the other half, or a little more when high power mode is selected.

Range is not a problem, they can normally do about 30 to 35 miles, and often much more with a bit more cycling effort. One member recently covered 61 miles on one battery with his Kalkhoff with still a bit more left in the battery, and I've shown how they can do over 50 miles in a hilly area without too much effort
.

 

[Fecn]

Range is not a problem, they can normally do about 30 to 35 miles, and often much more with a bit more cycling effort. One member recently covered 61 miles on one battery with his Kalkhoff with still a bit more left in the battery, and I've shown how they can do over 50 miles without too much effort
.

To further add to that... Same bike, same battery...

I've done a few more long rides since those ones including another one to Grenwich with my mate Matt. Matt is a big chap.. nearly 16 stone, and not especially fit. He accompanied me on a ride to Grenwich and back and he used the medium (1x) setting all the way - He managed 36 miles before the battery reached the cutout.

Yesterday I did The Cuckoo Trail again with my wife and kids. Wife+Daughter on her bike (again, not particularly fit)... 32 miles with 2 battery lights remaining.

Myself... 13.5 stone and pretty fit these days... I can get over 50 miles from the battery if I try to be economical... or I can flatten a battery in 15 miles if I am going hell for leather on maximum (1.3x) power all the way across the hilly North downs. On yesterday's 32-mile ride there was me+son+panniers-full-of-rocks on my bike, I was down to the last light by the time we made it back to the car.

High speeds and steep hills drain the batteries in no time. Leisurely riding on gentle gradients and the batteries last forever. Due to the way that the assist works on the Panasonic system (matching the amount of power you put in) it is far easier for a fit cyclist to flatten the battery than for an unfit cyclist.

 

[james111]

It basically comes down to the Panasonic motor equipped bikes for best hill climbing James. There is an alternative crank motor from Yamaha on a Gepida bike now, but the review on it did express some minor doubts and it's a very new product.

There are various Panasonic motored models available in the UK, and here's the main choices:

Kalkhoff from 50cycles

Gazelle Easy Glider from some dealers.

BH Emotion from OnBike

The Kalkhoff and BH bikes come in various styles from utility to sporting, the Gazelle Easy Glider in utility style. All these Panasonic equipped models are at the expensive end of e-bike prices, these systems not being cheap to produce, but all the above three makes are very high quality European production, not Chinese made.

We always strongly recommend you try to get test rides to ensure you are suited by a bike's system, and it's worth travelling to do that if necessary. Since the Panasonic system always works the same way, it would only really be necessary to try one to have a good idea of all three, only leaving the style etc to choose by. In the case of these bikes for example you do need to put in about half the required effort when riding, the motor providing the other half, or a little more when high power mode is selected.

Range is not a problem, they can normally do about 30 to 35 miles, and often much more with a bit more cycling effort. One member recently covered 61 miles on one battery with his Kalkhoff with still a bit more left in the battery, and I've shown how they can do over 50 miles in a hilly area without too much effort
.

Hi Flecc,

Thanks for that I will have a good look in to bikes that you have suggested, What is the main difference between the Yamaha and Panasonic system??
James

 

[james111]

To further add to that... Same bike, same battery...

I've done a few more long rides since those ones including another one to Grenwich with my mate Matt. Matt is a big chap.. nearly 16 stone, and not especially fit. He accompanied me on a ride to Grenwich and back and he used the medium (1x) setting all the way - He managed 36 miles before the battery reached the cutout.

Yesterday I did The Cuckoo Trail again with my wife and kids. Wife+Daughter on her bike (again, not particularly fit)... 32 miles with 2 battery lights remaining.

Myself... 13.5 stone and pretty fit these days... I can get over 50 miles from the battery if I try to be economical... or I can flatten a battery in 15 miles if I am going hell for leather on maximum (1.3x) power all the way across the hilly North downs. On yesterday's 32-mile ride there was me+son+panniers-full-of-rocks on my bike, I was down to the last light by the time we made it back to the car.

High speeds and steep hills drain the batteries in no time. Leisurely riding on gentle gradients and the batteries last forever. Due to the way that the assist works on the Panasonic system (matching the amount of power you put in) it is far easier for a fit cyclist to flatten the battery than for an unfit cyclist.

Hi Fenc,

Thank you for your reply, Can you please tell me what bike you have??
As I live in East Sussex I need to try and find someone where I can go and try some of these bikes any suggestion?

Kind regards
James

 

[Fecn]

Hi James,

I have a 57cm Diamond Frame Kalkhoff Agattu - I didn't get along with the Nexus 7 hub which came on it, so changed it for a Nuvinci CVP hub

My wife has a 49cm Wave Frame Kalkhoff Agattu - Gearing is still normal on that one, which is why it manages such long distances between charges regardless of who's riding it.

My mum has a 53cm wave frame Kalkhoff Agattu - Standard Nexus7 hub, but with 18-tooth sprocket fitted.

My dad is the odd one out... his bike's a Giant Freedom Twist CS - He doesn't get along with the Panasonic crank motor system at all.

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc,

Thanks for that I will have a good look in to bikes that you have suggested, What is the main difference between the Yamaha and Panasonic system??
James

The Yamaha is basically a copy of the Panasonic, but it has some different characteristics which A to B magazine weren't too impressed with when they tested it only weeks ago. Yamaha made very different electric bikes previously, but the Panasonic system bikes always won in the market, so Yamaha have finally given up and copied the master. In view of Panasonic's 8 years of experience with these units and now on the second generation model, while Yamaha are only just starting with one now, I think it's best for someone new to e-biking like yourself to stick with the acknowledged leader to ensure reliability.

Although 50cycles are at Loughborough, they do have a facility to try the bikes at Richmond in South West London and also some dealers. In addition they have a register of members willing to let someone try their bikes. This page has all the details and I see there's an owner demonstrator at Haywards Heath.

Onbike for the BH models are based in the Midlands and Wales, while Gazelle are sold through dealers which can locate via Google by entering Gazelle Easy Glider to see if there's a handy one.
.

 

[Gepida uk]

The Yamaha is basically a copy of the Panasonic, but it has some different characteristics which A to B magazine weren't too impressed with when they tested it only weeks ago. Yamaha made very different electric bikes previously, but the Panasonic system bikes always won in the market, so Yamaha have finally given up and copied the master. In view of Panasonic's 8 years of experience with these units and now on the second generation model, while Yamaha are only just starting with one now, I think it's best for someone new to e-biking like yourself to stick with the acknowledged leader to ensure reliability.

Although 50cycles are at Loughborough, they do have a facility to try the bikes at Richmond in South West London and also some dealers. In addition they have a register of members willing to let someone try their bikes. This page has all the details and I see there's an owner demonstrator at Haywards Heath.

Onbike for the BH models are based in the Midlands and Wales, while Gazelle are sold through dealers which can locate via Google by entering Gazelle Easy Glider to see if there's a handy one.
.

Hi James,

My name is Aidan from Gepida, the Yamaha system on the Gepida is very similar to that of the Panasonic but do share some similar caractistics. The way you ride a crank motor is very different to riding a hub motor ebike. Once you get used to the way it rides and the way it delivers the power you will always find yourself riding it in a high gear. Even when riding up a steep hill normally you would drop down a few gears to make peddling easier but with the Yamaha system you will find yourself staying in a higher gear whilst the very clever torque sensor works it’s magic and producing more power for you make your hill climb very quick.
The Yamaha overall gearing is 31”-96” allowing the rider to pedal up to a higher speed and is also equipped with a higher geared motor than that of the Panasonic system. This system is also quieter than that off the Panasonic systems almost making hard to hear...
As we are also based in East Sussex I would be happy for you to demo one of the Gepida bikes in your chosen frame size, we have a lovely test track for you to test the bike.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions, info@gepidaelectricbikes.co.uk Tel: 01580 830959
Kind regards
Aidan
Gepida UK

 

[james111]

Hi James,

My name is Aidan from Gepida, the Yamaha system on the Gepida is very similar to that of the Panasonic but do share some similar caractistics. The way you ride a crank motor is very different to riding a hub motor ebike. Once you get used to the way it rides and the way it delivers the power you will always find yourself riding it in a high gear. Even when riding up a steep hill normally you would drop down a few gears to make peddling easier but with the Yamaha system you will find yourself staying in a higher gear whilst the very clever torque sensor works it’s magic and producing more power for you make your hill climb very quick.
The Yamaha overall gearing is 31”-96” allowing the rider to pedal up to a higher speed and is also equipped with a higher geared motor than that of the Panasonic system. This system is also quieter than that off the Panasonic systems almost making hard to hear...
As we are also based in East Sussex I would be happy for you to demo one of the Gepida bikes in your chosen frame size, we have a lovely test track for you to test the bike.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions, info@gepidaelectricbikes.co.uk Tel: 01580 830959
Kind regards
Aidan
Gepida UK

Hi Aidan,
Thanks for that I would be very interested in coming over to see you and your Gepida bikes today, If it is possible I would like to have a look at the ladies and gents as my wife is also keen to have ago Please can I have your address details so as I can plan my route to you for this afternoon.

Thanks
James