High-end second hand Bosch 2013 or new 2015

[nemesis_fk]

Hi everybody,

I've been lurking around the forums for quite a while, reading and trying to decide on an ebike. I would like to put less km on my car and would love to buy an ebike.

I am pretty torn right now between a few models:

CUBE Hybrid SL - tested it, did not like it at all. Too hard for me, the hub loses a lot of power, impossible to pedal without assistance
Haibike sduro HardSeven SL and RC - does the SL actually have much worse parts than the RC? Is the RC worth the extra money?

OR

Haibike XDuro RC 2013 - this comes with the old Bosch Classic motor. I found a couple second hand ones here in Switzerland. Maybe this was discussed before (I could not find anything :-( ), but are the new 2015 systems so much better than the old ones? The numbers look very similar on paper. Is it worth to buy a better equipped old model as opposed to a lower end new one?

Thanks a lot for any advice!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You can't lose so much power through a hub that it makes it difficult to pedal without assistance. Did you spin the wheels to make sure the brakes weren't binding?

Another mistake people make is the illusion of riding through treacle. Sometimes, when riding with assistance, you might be going uphill or into the wind. The motor makes it very easy, so you think you can ride without power, but as soon as you switch it off, it becomes difficult to pedal.

 

[nemesis_fk]

Thanks, that is very true, yes.
But what about the Classic+ motor versus the Yamaha/ new Bosches?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

They all work - most of the time.
The classic motor had a few faults that should be covered by warranty as long as you have a helpful dealer nearby to sort it out.
The latest motors have the small sprocket, which some people don't like. There's not much feedback on the Yamaha yet on this forum. If you're in Switzerland, have a look on the German Pedelecs forum, when they discuss these things to the Nth degree.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Thanks, that is very true, yes.
But what about the Classic+ motor versus the Yamaha/ new Bosches?

Bosch Performance motor over Classic+ = 20% More Torque & 25% More Assistance.

 

[nemesis_fk]

Thanks Martin! I don't think those numbers will make a huge difference for me. Do you actually feel the differences that much?

Are the other components on the bike much more important than the drivetrain itself? I personally consider the second hand one a better buy because the price has already took a hit and I will not lose that much money as compared to a new one. And also I get full suspension vs hardtail for the same money.
What do you think?

And how does the reliability generally compare between the Classic+ and the new ones?

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

I personally consider the second hand one a better buy because the price has already took a hit

Many are not a worth difference in price for a machine with little warranty / support.

Do you actually feel the differences that much?

I believe so yes. So do the customers upgrading from Bosch Classic to new system. Hence why there are some classic available second hand.

 

[nemesis_fk]

I see, I actually forgot to mention that it's a "certified used" bike. I guess I will be getting some sort of warranty on it.

 

[EddiePJ]

Not knowing where you are in Switzerland, this could be too far away for you, but Imboden Bike Shop in lauterbrunnen stock Haibike, and had a very reasonably priced 2nd hand bike outside some time back. I couldn't tell you which model though. There is also a bike/sport shop in Interlaken that sell Cube. I can't recall the name right this moment, but I can find out easy enough for you.

I'm taking my bike to Lauterbrunnen with me on 10th July for a couple of weeks of riding around, and if you are in that area, you are more than welcome to ride my bike to see how the motor feels.

I have mixed feeling about the newer generation motors. I hate the things for off road use, but the active line that I have in another bike, is a pleasure to use on road, but I still think that the motors internal gearing is wrong. The battery life seems better on the bog stock active motor, than the performance one, but I'm using the two bikes for very different purposes, which more than likely account for this.
After getting rid of the Classic some time back, I actually miss it in many respects. Once I sorted the 'popping ' out, it made for a very pleasurable mile muncher, and at least it had a 'proper' size front sprocket.

edit.. You can feel the difference between the bog stock Active Line motor and the Performance Line version, and as Martin has said, there must be the same leap from the old Classic, but not having the two systems at the same time, I'd only be guessing by how noticeable that it would be.
After getting through two motors, with the latest one covering less than 500 miles before bearing failure, and the previous one approx 600 miles before spitting itself apart, I'm currently in no way a Bosch fan.

 

[Bigdaddyuk666]

Yamaha seems really good I have done over 500 miles in less than 6 weeks I certainly prefer it to my previous bike with a hub motor even tho there was nothing wrong with it. I just wanted the extra range and I am certainly happy with the range as I covered 51 miles in one day over fields, gravel paths, up serious hills and into strong headwinds on return and still had enough charge to go for another 13 ish miles the next day I'm off on a 30+ mile trip today weather depending. I'm going to start jotting down bits and bobs to put in my review of the HaiBike Sduro Hardnine Rc all I can say at the minute is the only thing that's gone wrong is all of my pedal reflectors have dropped off bar 1 that I pulled off cause it looked odd with only 1 lol .

 

[jcubbin]

Would it be worth looking at a discounted 2013 model from one of the german retailers, although bear in mind that it only has a 300wh battery rather than the 400wh.

Something like this

http://www.bikeshop2000-shop.de/product_info.php?products_id=793

or similar from their website rather than buying secondhand?

I was tempted to do so last year as the saving from getting an older model was significant. Didn't in the end though as I got a new model and bought from damian harris cycles but seeing as you are in Switzerland anyway it's unlikely to affect any of the UK retailers by suggesting this.

 

[martinb]

I've done over 800 miles on my haibike SL (Yamaha motor) no major problems and mostly off road . Motor mounts came loose 30 second job to tighten and seems a common problem to others but only needs doing once and I had never checked them.
Tyres looking a little worn and may need to replace the chain soon due to Leicestershire clay, cassette and ring gear look ok.
Ray on here has done over a 1000 miles on an identical bike and I think apart from routine Maintanance has been almost trouble free.

I think it's a couple of years before those of us with the Yamaha motors know for sure what we have. Everyone knows about the minor Bosche problems

 

[nemesis_fk]

Hi guys,

I checked the second hand offerings in person, and they were all so and so, (scratched, uncertain battery life, short to no warranty etc.) given their relatively high prices.

So in the end I went for the Haibike SL with the Yamaha motor. I absolutely love it. Unfortunately on my first ride (~35km) the front suspension seems to have lost all of its pressure and I can only use it locked. Will check out with the repair shop next week, I hope it's just some screw that was not tight, and nothing more serious.

Thanks again for all the advice!