How many people are using there e-bike off-road?

[D C]

It was also pointed out to me that my continued off road use of the bike, will add to further damage of the bike.
Clearly the bike hasn't been designed for my off road use

I've always admired your bike which is described on the BH web site as "for cross country riding and off road trecking" and that "It has beefy off-road tires on 26"double wall rims to improve grip on muddy or loose terrain" I've also admired the way you look after it after every ride,cleaning and lubing etc.
I'm stunned at the post from BH!!!
I think you've been treated appallingly by BH and no way would I now consider one of their products.

 

[RobF]

I've always admired your bike which is described on the BH web site as "for cross country riding and off road trecking" and that "It has beefy off-road tires on 26"double wall rims to improve grip on muddy or loose terrain" I've also admired the way you look after it after every ride,cleaning and lubing etc.
I'm stunned at the post from BH!!!
I think you've been treated appallingly by BH and no way would I now consider one of their products.

Some marketing puff there, I think.

Someone can't spell 'trekking', but in Europe trekking rides are day rides at a leisurely place on road, cycle path and very light trails.

My Rose is a trekking bike - it has full mudguards which tells you it's not designed for mud plugging.

Eddie's use is quite extreme - deep ruts, deep mud, tree roots, rocks, etc.

I'm not sure any ebike will stand up to that very well.

 

[EddiePJ]

I can't dispute that Rob and can fully accept it, but this bike has suffered persistent error codes from day one. The issue for me is how I have been treated over the last year, and the lack of any end user support and poor communication from BH UK. You only have to look through other threads to see that I'm clearly not the only person to have suffered the BH experience as it will here on in be known.
There is also still no excuse for fitting sub standard quality front forks, which corroded within months, and were never replaced under warranty, and also no excuse for me only having seven months of almost trouble free use from a year of ownership.

I took the bike out of the van about an hour ago, and couldn't even be arsed to give it a second glance as I put it in the shed. I'm currently that low about it, that it wouldn't bother me if I never saw it again. The BH experience has well and truly worn me down, and as far as I'm now concerned the BH NEO Xtrem doesn't even exist anymore.

I'll go out on the Haibike tomorrow to cheer myself back up again. A bike which clearly hasn't been designed for off road use, yet wheels and forks aside copes better with it. Again wheels and forks aside, the KTM E-Cross P another bike not designed for off road use, also coped better.

It's just a shame that I can't currently afford to be buying another bike.

 

[SRS]

Eddie, your ongoing BH problems make my odd little glitch seem insignificant. Seriously glad I didn't get a BH on day one.

I hope at some point in the not too distant future that you end up with your KTM or something equally as good.

 

[TinKitten]

I'm very pleased to be able to contribute this off-road thread at last. I've been hooked on EddiePJ's super ride descriptions and photos whilst I've been waiting the long months for my bike to arrive. Well it finally did, and it was worth waiting for as I love the panasonic hub with the full suspension and build quality of KTM. See my intro thread if you want to see my inital pictures of said beast.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/hi-from-wales.18285/#post-226357

At this point I must confess that my off road experience is virtually nil. Back in the mists of time when I was 16, I had a cheap cruddy old mountain bike with no suspension and rim brakes that ceased to work properly if they got wet. Occasionally I would attempt to take it up one of the local hills with my younger brother. It was quite bone-shaking and exhausting but fun. Somehow we managed not to fall off.

Fast forward 24 years and you have one 39 year old girl trying to rediscover her youth without half as much of the energy. And no experience of biking in between apart from dusting off the old bike and deciding that it felt darned unsafe without all the trappings I was used to on my motorbike (mirrors and wearing lots of safety gear). It was clear the old bike wasn't up to the job anymore. I needed something more hardcore, comfortable and capable of assisting my anemic legs up the tough slopes.

After much internet research and a trip to E-motion in Swindon my mind was made up and I ordered the 2014 ELycan. Mark from the shop graciously delivered and set the bike up for me and I plunged in head first. That evening I headed up the local mountain. I quickly discovered the footpaths up there are quite overgrown, more so than normal. I headed into unknown territory to avoid a stile as I feared I'm not strong enough to muscle the bike over it. Instead I ended up wrestling the bike over a huge fallen oak completely blocking the path. Then it came time to turn steeply up the hill. This kind of incline hadn't been a problem on the road but I just couldn't get going on the track with it's loose soil and random rocks strewn all across it.

If anyone has any tips for tackling such a trail, I'd be grateful. It may be that I needed a different gear or that I was trying to use too much assist as the front wheel was lifting, then I'd lose it. I ended up pushing the bike up the hill and boy was I whacked when I finally got ground that I could cope with again.

There followed a very pleasant ride over the foothills of the Sugarloaf mountain, passing beneath the peak, then down through a beautiful meadow and oak forest. Finishing with an easy descent back into Abergavenny and a quick stop at a couple of Ingress portals.

Here's a few of the photos I took...


The trail winds through one of the Sugarloaf's beautiful oak forests


Grasses, bracken and the open sky


It's not truly christened until it's muddy


The obligatory arty close up shot

p.s. EddiePJ - I do wonder if your heart is not with your BH anymore partly because you've tried the E-Cross P?

 

[baldylox]

Excellent photography

 

[berkobennie]

Great photos TK, and the bike will have Eddie reaching for the plastic!
You,ve certainly got a great back yard to play in, difficult but fantastic scenery, very brave to ride it so soon, hard enough to walk from what I remember.
I'm no expert, far from it but I found the best thing when I first started was a 1:25K OS map, then plan your route up the dip slope of hills then down the scarp, build up the fitness that way.
Use bridle paths if you can, footpaths can be a real problem.
The great thing about the KTM with the Panasonic hub is the range of gears, have confidence, I've thought on a few rides, no chance of climbing that, they are very capable bikes, shift your weight forward, maybe select a lower gear than you thought.
Are any of the trails on this site any use to you?
http://www.mtbbreconbeacons.co.uk/

Look forward to seeing more posts in the future.
Stan

 

[EddiePJ]

Fantastic write up TinKitten. More please

And what a brilliant area to get to ride in as well.
Although I'm across in Sussex, my favourite pub is in your approximate neck of the woods. http://www.gooseandcuckoo.com/ Next time that I'm down your way visiting my sister, I might well pop by for a ride.

Ref tackling tricky trails, a good starting point is to buy a copy of this guide http://www.myfavouritemagazines.co.uk/cycling/sports-masterclass-mbuk-mountain-bike-skills/ There is a fair bit that won't be relevant to you, but you will be surprised by what tips that you will pick up on.
Two things stand out though. Saddle time and tyres. These are possibly the two things that are going to help you the most. A year ago my riding was the same as yours, and it wasn't until a few weeks ago that I started to ride tracks that I hadn't been on for the best part of a year and had previously struggled on, that I suddenly realised just how far my riding ability had come. The more that you ride, the easy that things will become.
I would say make sure that you wear a helmet, try to let someone know where you are going, and just go out and enjoy yourself. Don't rush, just take your time, pick routes that aren't going to over tax you, and above all else, enjoy it.

Tyres are the next thing. I don't know what the OE tyres are like, but changing the OE Continental Explorers that came on the BH, was the best thing that I could have done. They were fine a dry trail/road tyre but even the slightest of damp grass had me falling on my backside. I'd say stick with what you have for now, get used to how the bike feels, then as confidence grows, then consider changing them if you feel that it would help.

As for the comment about BH V KTM. It's no contest, the KTM is in a different league. It is purely the hassle that I've had that has ruined the BH for me, not riding the KTM.

As reaching for the plastic, if only I could.

edit.. Unless you were carrying it, I would strongly advise taking a puncture repair kit/tube, pump etc along with you for each ride as well.

Edit again.. Triumph Speed Triple and a KTM. I'm putting you on ignore!

 

[peerjay56]

I'll join with the plaudits tinkitten - nice bike, good write up and stunning photography - surely not with a phone? Only downside for me is your mention of footpaths; assuming it wasn't just a slip of terminology and you were actually on bridleways - any cyclist on a public footpath in a rural area will just increase antagonism towards cyclists - you may not even still be around, but the tyre tracks left behind will generate the wrath of the ramblers association or other walking group. It's all negative stuff for those wanting to boost cycling, and I talk as an enthusiast in both camps. Nevertheless, welcome to the forum and I'm looking forward to more write ups to match Eddies (in fact, with your stunning photography, you'll easily beat Eddies contributions

 

[D C]

cyclist on a public footpath in a rural area will just increase antagonism towards cyclists - you may not even still be around, but the tyre tracks left behind will generate the wrath of the ramblers association or other walking group

Thankfully we don't have that problem here in the highlands, everyone is happy to share and the Scottish access rights allow you to go pretty much anywhere which includes bikes (and dogs under control) so the best of both worlds.
Great pictures and write up TinKitten, that bike will be my very first purchase when the premium bonds finally come good!
Dave.

 

[drsolly]

I use my bike for geocaching, which means mostly off-road.

1) Make your tires puncture-resistant. I use the following: http://blog.drsolly.com/2014/03/puncture-resistance.html

2) Helmet.

3) Gloves. I use fingerless biking gloves in summer, sheepskin gloves when it gets cold, and when it's bitter, fingerless gloves inside mittens.

4) Extra battery. I take enough batteries for the route I'm planning, plus one.

5) In summer, water.

6) Spare fuse

7) Obstacles. If you have to, for example, lift over a fallen tree, take the battery out first.

 

[EddiePJ]

TK, I decided that I had better test the BH this evening, and was reminded of one piece of advice to give you. This probably isn't at the right stage of your riding to tell you this, or even suggest that you do it, but speed will carry over or through most things. Having confidence not to back off when things begin to slide isn't an easy thing, but it works. Well most of the time it works, but it didn't this evening and in truth I smacked myself up pretty big time.

Right the BH.......

For the first time in a whole year of ownership, I have completed a ride without a single error code showing. A whole year!

Now for the negative. BH are still rubbish! They were told that there is no difference between any of the power settings, and guess what, there is still no difference between any of the power settings, and leaving the bike in eco mode, the battery was dead after 12miles! The ride was 20miles.
At least with the old battery I got a still shockingly low 20miles from a charge in eco. I'm not even going to bother writing down my ever increasing low opinion of BH UK, and their lack of ability to repair faults!

What is also annoying is that I sent the MD of BH Spain an email yesterday thanking both him and BH UK for resolving the current bike issues. I guess that he isn't going to like the next email when I send it to him on Monday. Especially as he originally offered to ship the bike back to Spain for repair.

The photos aren't that great from tonight's ride, and even less so compared with the stunning photographs that TK has put up. I would blame it on a camera phone and no light.

 

[berkobennie]

I swapped the Racing Ralph's OE, for Smart Sam's (Schwalbe's green guard). Had no problems with punctures and very grippy on the rooty, flinty, chalky stuff.

Edit: Should read Smart Sam Plus

Stan

 

[EddiePJ]

I swapped the Racing Ralph's OE, for Smart Sam's (Schwalbe's green guard). Had no problems with punctures and very grippy on the rooty, flinty, chalky stuff.

I don't think that you can go wrong with Schwalbe tyres. They seem to make consistently good tyres whatever the use.

 

[TinKitten]

Berkobennie - Thank you for the useful advice, I shall take it on board. My friend Rob was talking to my husband ealier today and echoed what you said about taking the easier route up and steeper route down. I think that I take for granted what my feet can carry me up and was very over optimistic about what I could do at this (or possibly any) stage. Thanks for the website link, I did look at it ages ago then promptly forgot about it, but getting hold of that map pack might be a good idea to help me plan routes. And it's great to know how much confidence you have in your tyres, I will seriously consider whether to change to them sooner rather than later. At the moment I am counting on Slime, but that's probably foolish as I also have no experience of changing a tube although I do have a 'How To' DvD waiting to be watched and I can't afford to put it off any longer.

Peerjay56 - Thank you for the compliments about my write up and photography. You are right, I didn't use a phone camera. It was my Sony NEX-5R and all the pictures took a trip through Lightroom 4 too. My favourite hobby used to be photographing my motorbike, and the attention is going to be on my ebike instead now. Thank you also for bringing into question the matter of where to ride. When I said footpath, I was actually on one of those green dotted (Boats?) at the time, but then I did turn up onto something not marked as a bridleway. I must confess to never thinking about this before. I've always walked in the area and seen plenty of mountain bikers on the hills and haven't given it a second thought. I kind of assumed it was all allowed. I was riding on National Trust land for quite a bit of that ride and I've just been to visit their website. It seems that they encourage cyclists but are not very specific about whether they mean only on certain trails. It is very disappointing if I can't legally ride over the open moorland (where I could see other cyclists have been). The wild wide open spaces are one of the reasons why I so love living in Wales, I want to be up there and in the midst of it.

Drsolly - Thanks for the great tips! I did figure to take the battery out to lift the bike over the tree. I don't think I could have managed had I left it on! A question about number 6... I don't know where the fuse is so I don't know what I'd do with a spare one. I'm not mechanically or technically minded at all. Is the fuse something I can reach easily?

D C - I am now officially jealous of your Scottish access rights! Perhaps I should move there? But I don't fancy any more rain than I already get in Wales, I think I'm vitamin D deficient as it is!

EddiePJ - I hope you're not too bruised from your off this evening. You've given me plenty of useful and encouraging advice to think about whilst riding and it seems like a good idea to get the book you recommended to get more. I do have a helmet and the bits of kit mentioned, I just need to learn how to use them before I need to in an emergency with no clue. It's really cool that your sister lives not far away. I know the Goose and Cuckoo Pub, it's well hidden! I'd love to meet when you're next visiting. You're welcome to have a go on the eLycan although I have the smallest frame size so it might not fit you as well as your BH. How frustrating how quickly your battery died tonight. I had just over half the battery left after 15 miles where I used the highest setting for any significant hill and 'auto' the rest of the time. And there was virtually no flat on my ride at all. Your rides are going to be very short if your new battery range is so poor. Any idea what is causing that this time?

 

[EddiePJ]

The KTM certainly does have fantastic battery range.

The BH has never been that great in respect of this, but I'm certain that having no difference between the power settings is the main cause of my issues. Although I leave it eco, it's more likely to be running at standard/boost/sport level. It also says something about BH UK that they didn't even bother to check and rectify this when looking into the other electrical issues.
I also recall that the first battery took quite a few charges before it finally gave a remotely useful range. So I guess that this battery is just the same

Last night ride was 20miles, so eight miles of it were pedal only. I normally just pedal only on flat and slight inclines anyway, but it's obviously frustrating all the same. I'd rather work my ride routes out from what I want to ride, not what the battery is dictating to me.

A couple of other things have occurred to me once again about riding off road with the hub drive system over a mid drive system.
The first is to be careful not to put your foot onto the pedal before you actually want to set off, or with the modes off when stopping. After not having ridden the bike for so long, I'd kind of forgotten that one, and whacking your shins soon gets tiresome.
The second is that you can use the system by tricking it, to get you through muddy section, or ruts that you might not other wise been able to pedal through. Just power down hard on the approach, and the motor will hopefully have kicked in enough to make a big difference. Even an extra split second of help is useful.

This was yesterday's bank. Again a blurred low light phone photo. I was riding up the bank, and the bikes position is roughly halfway up the ascent, and it was the large root that sent me to the ground. You can't see from this photo, but the section below which included a stream, dictated that there was no option but to hit the root and go over it, rather than around it. I was carrying a bit of speed and whilst the front end had hopped over it okay, for some reason the back end just hooked right round on me and spat me over the bars highside style. Thankfully I just have bruises to show for it.

This is the section just after the top of the bank, and the section before it was pretty similar. Not exactly on the beaten path, and I could have been laying there a very very long time had the worse happened. I really enjoy this kind of technical riding over open trail stuff, but after last week banging my head, I'm also starting to think that maybe some kind of tracking system could be a wise move. It's a shame that Strava doesn't have 'real time' home tracking.

 

[RobF]

The KTM certainly does have fantastic battery range.

The BH has never been that great in respect of this, but I'm certain that having no difference between the power settings is the main cause of my issues. Although I leave it eco, it's more likely to be running at standard/boost/sport level. It also says something about BH UK that they didn't even bother to check and rectify this when looking into the other electrical issues.
I also recall that the first battery took quite a few charges before it finally gave a remotely useful range. So I guess that this battery is just the same

Last night ride was 20miles, so eight miles of it were pedal only. I normally just pedal only on flat and slight inclines anyway, but it's obviously frustrating all the same. I'd rather work my ride routes out from what I want to ride, not what the battery is dictating to me.

A couple of other things have occurred to me once again about riding off road with the hub drive system over a mid drive system.
The first is to be careful not to put your foot onto the pedal before you actually want to set off, or with the modes off when stopping. After not having ridden the bike for so long, I'd kind of forgotten that one, and whacking your shins soon gets tiresome.
The second is that you can use the system by tricking it, to get you through muddy section, or ruts that you might not other wise been able to pedal through. Just power down hard on the approach, and the motor will hopefully have kicked in enough to make a big difference. Even an extra split second of help is useful.

This was yesterday's bank. Again a blurred low light phone photo. I was riding up the bank, and the bikes position is roughly halfway up the ascent, and it was the large root that sent me to the ground. You can't see from this photo, but the section below which included a stream, dictated that there was no option but to hit the root and go over it, rather than around it. I was carrying a bit of speed and whilst the front end had hopped over it okay, for some reason the back end just hooked right round on me and spat me over the bars highside style. Thankfully I just have bruises to show for it.

This is the section just after the top of the bank, and the section before it was pretty similar. Not exactly on the beaten path, and I could have been laying there a very very long time had the worse happened. I really enjoy this kind of technical riding over open trail stuff, but after last week banging my head, I'm also starting to think that maybe some kind of tracking system could be a wise move. It's a shame that Strava doesn't have 'real time' home tracking.

Presumably, rear suspension would have improved your chances of getting over the tree root and remaining upright.

 

[EddiePJ]

Presumably, rear suspension would have improved your chances of getting over the tree root and remaining upright.

I think that it had more to do with tyre pressures. They were miles too high yesterday evening, as I had them set for road use rather than anything else.
I'd set them at 60psi, not really intending to ride off road, but couldn't resist just turning off, and then forgot to drop them again to about 38-40psi.

 

[jackhandy]

I swapped the Racing Ralph's OE, for Smart Sam's (Schwalbe's green guard). Had no problems with punctures and very grippy on the rooty, flinty, chalky stuff.

Edit: Should read Smart Sam Plus

Stan

Hi Stan,
Do you find the Smart Sam +s are wearing quickly?
My back one's showing significant wear after about 800 miles:
I ride a fair mix of road & trail @ 40/42psi.

 

[EddiePJ]

I went out again this evening, and yep the lack of traction was definitely down to tyre pressures.
I did loose count of how many times that I fell off this evening though. All low speed, trying to negotiate tricky stuff.
I also got a complete soaking trying to navigate both down and across the stream below (another blurred shot)
This is the second time of ending up soaking wet at this point. You may recall one of my night time adventures after the February floods. At that time the water was icy cold, fast flowing and up to my knees. I had no idea where I was, and had to carry the bike across.
Tonight there wasn't that much water so I went for it, got halfway, lost grip on the slippery rocks, and ended up underneath the bike, sitting in the water! As if that wasn't bad enough, for some unknown reason, the motor didn't cut out, and the rear wheel was spinning against my leg and knee, and at the same time spinning into the water, covering my face in water!! Had it not been for the spinning rear wheel hitting my leg, I'd have seen the funny side of it at the time. Even when I stood the bike up it tried to race off!
I have no idea what the hell that was all about, but given that I was under the bike, no part of anything electric was anywhere near the water. Very odd.

The hills on the horizon are the South Downs that I normally ride on. I'm guessing that they are approx. 25miles away in these photos.

And the stream that gave me a dunking.

And after the event and just for a change, nice wet feet. I reckon that I'll have webbed feet soon.