how much faster by eBike.....???

[OxygenJames]

This is all an excellent thread.

I have taken this on board and done a similar test myself and here are the results:

Bike 1 - 1995 21 speed Trec with no electric power: Distance to destination: 4.5 miles. Time taken: a trillion years. Reason: Mind refuses to even attempt to cycle up Wimbledon Village hill without assistance (and dog on front). Heart rate: 60 (I remained sat at home). Dog's mood: Not happy can't go for a walk on the Common.

Bike 2 - Tres expensive Haibike with oodles of electric power. Distance to destination: 4.5 miles. Time taken: 15 minutes (with dog on front basket). Heart rate: 61. Dog's mood: Much better.

I therefore conclude that electric bikes are at least a Trillion times better than regular bikes.

Scientifically concluded I might add.

 

[fishingpaul]

Well your heart rate shows you are certainly putting extra effort in,maybe without realising it in order to try and beat the unassisted bike times, so the results are not really a fair test result,how is this any better than a regular unpowered bike. on my bike i could probably beat,my unnassisted times without pedalling by those margins.and whilst pedalling beat most lycras easilly.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

yes, my HR does show that from that one example. But that was my first ever time commuting by eBike so I didn't really have anything to go off. It was dark, so I could see what my heart rate was whilst I was riding.

So yes it appears I was putting in a bit more effort than the day before when I'd used my road bike. However the increased heart rate could have also been down to the stinking cold I've had all week.

Anyway, I kept on using the eBike all week. So rode well over 100 miles on it, and I've not got some more thoughts on it.

The weather was shocking, and I was ill, so without the Bosch tailwind I definitely would have chosen the car to commute.

I've produced some graphs to show the results and I'll put together a full post when I get into work tomorrow.

It would be really good if others could perhaps do a similar thing with their commute and give a scientific comparison between using an eBike, normal bike / and I'll also do my car when I next drive in.

just saying it feels faster I don't think is enough, as an industry we need to give our retailers and customers real world examples of why eBikes have a place in the UK market.

 

[Paws]

I'm really looking forward to see that data mr. KTM as my ebike will be arriving soon and I'm trying to figure out my average commuting time needed.

Now my calculations estimate that the ebike driven with average of 22-25 km/h could match (or even beat) car's time in peak hours. That would be astounding for me. And there's that excercise thingy...

One question for you: how hard you need to pedal on +20 kg bike when going >25 km/h? Considering you're fit unlike me, I can't see myself going beyond the motor assistance limit for longer periods.

 

[Artstu]

One question for you: how hard you need to pedal on +20 kg bike when going >25 km/h? Considering you're fit unlike me, I can't see myself going beyond the motor assistance limit for longer periods.

A lot depends on the tyres too, my KTM Macina cross on standard tyres can be hard work above the assist level, especially on any uphill, including slight up hills, but then on some flat sections it isn't too bad. Some faster rolling tyres may help a bit.

I often find myself riding at about 18 mph working very hard, and the temptation to ease off and drop down into the assist level is huge.

I was riding up a hill only the other day when the battery went flat and my speed went from 16 mph down to about 5 mph!

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi,

Ok, here is a bit more infomation.

The KTM Macina Action I was riding was an MTB, with MTB tyres on it, if I was going to do this experiment properly or even actually buy an eBike to commute normally I'd put on some slick tyres. This would mean that riding over the assist speed, and indeed under the assist speed would be considerably easier.

I've put three rides onto this image.

all three were ridden in very similar conditions - ie horrible, wind and rain.

I've added the picture to a facebook link, so you can view it here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254559118039456&set=a.194359744059394.1073741831.193414864153882&type=1&theater

or this might be big enough to view.

so my conclusion, having actually done the rides.... is

if I aim for the same time, I can achieve it with a LOT less effort.

Or if I'm trying to save time, I can do that pretty easily.

I'll try it again in a few weeks when I've got one of the new hub drive Panasonic KTMs to play on, this will have semi slick tyres, and I'll be interested to see what the difference is.

Certainly for me, I can see the relevance of using an eBike as a commuting tool.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Good results, and thanks for sharing. It would be interesting to compare those results with something like an Ezee Torque, which I think is much better suited to commuting a journey like that. You'd probably do the journey faster and with less effort because you can get the power without having to pedal so hard, and you can get better power from a start.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I've just had a good look at that bike, and I'm afraid there is no way on this earth I'd personally ride one of them, even if it saved me 10 minutes.

or am I looking at the wrong bike? Can you send me a link so I'm sure I'm understanding your suggestion correctly.

it doesn't look like it would even last 10 minutes, let alone ride 100+ miles a week in horrendous conditions.

I might be a snob, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone (well I know I'm not alone because I've spent years in the cycle industry)

I like to have fun riding my bike and I don't think I could have fun riding anything that weighs that much. I might be a snob, but I'm afraid I am very typical of lots of customers.

The claimed weight that I could find...

Weight: Only 27kg (59lbs) Including Battery

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You mind is in the wrong frame of reference. Presumably, you have a sports biking background, so you've chosen a sports bike to commute on, which isn't ideal. I think if you tried the Ezee Torque, which is much better suited to commuting, you'd get a rather pleasant surprise, and you'd change your mind, unless of course you are a snob. Do you have an iPhone or an iPad, in which case you probably are anyway?

You don't have to worry about the weight because the motor has plenty of torque. Also the extra weight helps maintain a higher unassisted speed on the down-hill bits. Plus, it improves the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight so that the suspension works better. Most of the extra weight is in the battery so that you can go further with more power. I doubt that the Bosch battery would last the return journey if the motor was giving you as much assistance as the Ezee one.

Hopefully, you'll be able to make it to Redbridge in a few months time, where you will have a chance to try a lot of different types of electric bikes so that you will have a more balanced view in the future.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I didn't choose the bike to commute on, it was just one we had here.

I will choose something a bit more suitable in a week or two when it comes back from eCyclist magazine, and post up the comparisons, because it will be a hub driven bike with more of a commuter focus. This was pretty much always going to be a worst case first attempt, to see what impact it had.

The bike you've suggested might have more power up to the threshold, but you've not provided any links so I'm still not sure exactly what you're talking about.

I've not seen the stats, but I simply wouldn't ride a bike that heavy, with components that I'd not trust, and I'd not want to be riding round here on a bike that heavy with mechanical disc brakes.

http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-torq-mk3.html

is a link I've just found...

it states the range as just 40 miles, so it wouldn't even get me home and back I suspect.

and I'm not going to make any comments about Apple... but I suspect the size of their market suggests that if the eBike industry wants to achieve anything it could do worse than look at their styling and marketing.

Are you suggesting that eBikes would sell more if they didn't appeal to people?

 

[Paws]

The way I see it a MTB style ebike with quality components and versatility of being able to switch slick to MTB tires for commuting or trailing is a better option than some other types of bikes being discussed here.

The lighter the better of course. That is certainly not snobbish.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

but I simply wouldn't ride a bike that heavy, with components that I'd not trust, .....

it states the range as just 40 miles, so it wouldn't even get me home and back I suspect.

Are you suggesting that eBikes would sell more if they didn't appeal to people?

There's no need not to trust it. Ezee have been making solid dependable ebikes for a very long time. If you go right back to the start of the forum in 2006, Ezee was the most recommended bike. How long have KTM been making electric bikes, and when did Bosch start with their motors, which haven't been entirely problem free? I don't remember there being any systematic problems with Ezee motors.

I wouldn't take too much notice of that range. A strong pedaller like you should be able to double it at least. 40 miles is for old farts like me that can't be bothered to pedal hard, if at all.

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not. If you're still not sure, I can give you some other things to look for, but from what you've said so far, I think you already know the answer.

 

[Artstu]

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not.

I have a basic phone that makes calls, sends text messages and has a torch on top. However I like to ride good bicycles. That Ezee torq is not comparable to a good bicycle. I'm not a snob though as your simple test proves I'm not.

 

[Croxden]

I don't have a mobile phone or a tablet but I am having an R & M Delite, but then I have always been contrary.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

There's no need not to trust it. Ezee have been making solid dependable ebikes for a very long time. If you go right back to the start of the forum in 2006, Ezee was the most recommended bike. How long have KTM been making electric bikes, and when did Bosch start with their motors, which haven't been entirely problem free? I don't remember there being any systematic problems with Ezee motors.

KTM have been making eBikes since the 90's, so they have VERY good experience, they have just never previously been pushed in the UK.

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not. If you're still not sure, I can give you some other things to look for, but from what you've said so far, I think you already know the answer.

I was simply suggesting that there are many reasons why people choose to buy expensive well designed products, and you deciding to judge someone based on the brand of their phone or the priorities they allocate to the bike their choose to ride is probably unfounded.

Some people like to buy nice things, that doesn't make them a snob.

The reasons I'd not buy / ride the Ezee bike, are to do with the weight and my experience of bikes with components and suspension forks of that quality. They wouldn't cope with my riding style, or mileage.

However I suppose I am a snob, because even if that bike was £4000.00 and dripping in top quality component brands, and weighed next to nothing, I'm afraid I'd still not ride it just because of the way it looks.

 

[Cyclezee]

I've just had a good look at that bike, and I'm afraid there is no way on this earth I'd personally ride one of them, even if it saved me 10 minutes.

or am I looking at the wrong bike? Can you send me a link so I'm sure I'm understanding your suggestion correctly.

it doesn't look like it would even last 10 minutes, let alone ride 100+ miles a week in horrendous conditions.

I might be a snob, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone (well I know I'm not alone because I've spent years in the cycle industry)

I like to have fun riding my bike and I don't think I could have fun riding anything that weighs that much. I might be a snob, but I'm afraid I am very typical of lots of customers.

The claimed weight that I could find...

Weight: Only 27kg (59lbs) Including Battery

Hi KTM,

Sorry but I don't know your first name.

I had not read this post until it was alluded to in another thread earlier today.

I quite understand that the eZee Torq might not be everybody's cup of tea and is clearly not yours, although I wonder if you have ever ridden one?

From what you say, I assume that you know little about the eZee brand in general, but I can assure you that they last much longer than 10 minutes, in fact they have achieved some epic rides, across Australia, South Africa, China etc., covering thousands of miles in much harsher conditions than we have to cope with here in the UK.

I quite understand your bias in favour of KTM, that is your job.

Regards,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, I forgot about that Australia trip. To alleviate any doubts about the durability of Ezee bikes, have a look at this. Have any KTMs or similar electric bikes completed journeys like that? Enjoy the read:

[url]http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52355[/URL]

 

[trex]

people who buy German bikes: want 250% assistance, generally good in bed
people who buy Chinese bikes: want 900% assistance, generally lazy in bed
Here you have your test, no need for an ipad.

 

[Cyclezee]

people who buy German bikes: want 250% assistance, generally good in bed
people who buy Chinese bikes: want 900% assistance, generally lazy in bed
Here you have your test, no need for an ipad.

So which category are you in Trex

 

[trex]

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.