Hub Motor

[PatM]

I’ve just repaired the Pedelec sensor at enormous cost on my Tiger Columbia- I’m still not happy with the performance- ok, I’m no slim Jim, but the motor seems ineffective. So, before I start to disassemble the hub, can anyone help or confirm the bikes operating correctly- ? If I connect say a 12 battery to the motor direct, I can hear a whining of the motor, but the wheel will not attempt to rotate if the bikes in contact with the ground- but it will if I lift it up! Now, for my mind, it’s like a clutch hasn’t engaged or the drive isn’t connected to the wheel- or am I missing something? The mechanical assistance seems negligible- ok, I didn’t expect it to propel me like my R1 does, but I hoped for some oomph...

 

[Fecn]

Most hub motors will not take a direct DC current fed to a single pair of wires. The motors have multiple windings (usually 3 thick wires), and need the correct wires to be energised depending on the rotational position of the motor. Many motors feature a magnetic 'hall device' sensor (3 or 5 thin wires) which can detect the rotational position of the motor to tell the controller which wires it should be energising. On more modern 'sensorless' controllers a hall device is not needed as the controller cleverly works out the motor's rotation from the resistances on the thick motor wires.

You need to have the controller in place when you test the motor. - Just sticking 12v onto a couple of the wires is unlikely to make it turn.

 

[PatM]

Thanks for your reply- Im sorry, I didnt make things clear- the problem seems to be lack of electrical effort- If I raise the back wheel and rotate the pedals one revoloution, the motor will spin the wheel- but the power seems negligible- ie, if I place my foot up against it, it will stop very easily. If this makes sence? On the contoller front- there are only 2 wires going to the motor from the bottom-bracket integral Pedalec controller.

 

[Mussels]

From what I can see of Tiger's latest electric offering it has a brushed motor which means it will work with the battery directly connected but 12V is much lower than it's 24V operating voltage so it is unlikely to move much.
Your motor may have a freewheel but I doubt it has any sort of clutch fitted.

 

[flecc]

It looks like a direct drive motor, not internally geared, and this type is usually fairly gutless when used on a low voltage like 24 volts, in particular lacking low speed torque for pulling away and hill climbing.

For example, on a similar motor in the Sparta Ion e-bike, one tester remarked it only had the power to pull it's own weight up a steep hill, leaving the rider to do the same work as if the bike had been unpowered. Motors like this are mainly useful for assistance in fairly flat areas, but they do have the benefits of being cheap and quiet compared with the common internally geared types.

As Mussels says, you won't get anything appreciable on 12 volts, the full 24 volts is necessary.
.

 

[PatM]

Ok chaps, so its looks like its working as well as its ever going to!
- BTW- i used 12 v as a test supply, so as not to damage the motor starting it direct on line- I dont plan to use 12v to run the bike! Even on 24v, with the pedal turned, the power seems low and the wheel easy to stop. It certainally doesnt work well at all on hills and one can only feel modest assistance on the straight. - this is my first e-bike.

Now then, a burning quiestion- what would be the jurys recomendations to an alternative Hub Motor? any recomendations- the Tiger is a 16'' folder, btw!

 

[PatM]

Hub Motor- clutch

Hopefully the picture uploaded- that showed the clutch assembly, for the benefit of others!

Yes, my TIGER COLORADO has one- its a DC Motor and it relies on this type of arrangement- similar to a slipper clutch on a motorbike starter motor. It still doent explain the lass of power, as manually, the clutch grabs. The gears are nylon and are planetary- driven straight from the motor. The small springs and roller pins are eveil little gits to get back in and insert the main gear that goes in on top of whats shown.

 

[flecc]

As it is a geared motor it should have reasonable power and torque, though it's slim appearance which made it look like a direct drive indicate rather small motor dimensions which could be a factor.

Have you tried any other internally geared hub-motor bike to get a true comparison of what it's like?
.

 

[PatM]

Hub Motor- weeak power output-Tiger Cycles Columbia

Hi
Sorry for the delay in relying- No, I have never ridden another e-bike other than this one. I have ordered a replacement motor assembly from Tiger and hope that solves the issue. However, as a die-hard. I took it all apart again and I think it’s just a characteristic of this bike- if you 'stall' the motor, the clutch- which is in the picture- slips. So therefore, if you offer resistance to the road wheel, say as a hill will do, then it slips-.The only advantage seems to be on the flat- where it will provide slight mechanical assistance. But as we know, That’s not really any benefit- Every advert I see for e-bikes mentioned hill-climbing abilities- especially the 1k watt ones!!

 

[PatM]

Electric Bicycle Wheel Hub Motor - Jiangsu Sanjiang Electric Group Co., Ltd.

The wheel in question!


PatM

 

[flecc]

Every advert I see for e-bikes mentioned hill-climbing abilities- especially the 1k watt ones!!

With 1 kW motors that's true Pat, but most of the advertising about hill climbing is an exaggeration. Most e-bikes will only manage a 10% slope with the rider supplying appreciable assistance, and 10% is only half way up the range of hills that commonly appear in the UK. We have loads of 12% to 20% gradients and a few of 25% and beyond.

Contrary to popular belief, those in alpine regions of Europe are the luckiest since they benefit more from good road engineering, most alpine passes for example being only 7 to 10% at most.
.

 

[flecc]

Just seen your added post. That wheel should be quite powerful, but it's likely to be a faulty clutch in your case with that odd design.
.

 

[PatM]

oops!

Oh chaps, I have to share this with you, as it will make me feel better and act as a colonic tonic!

I have solved the problem at the start of this thread


It was...

The motor wires reversed within the motor- honest, as the wires are not only red/black but the bullets are sexed.
So reversing them and now the bike works- it must have been like that from the factory and sold on through Ebay to me..

the reason it appeared to work is because when the power is applied, the wheel will turn, but I hadnt noticed in the WRONG DIRECTION- as soon as you apply a load, it would stop, and the motor contunue to run- which gave me the impression the gearbox had gone.

anyway

for the benefit of others!

and, for what its worth, theres a reasonable amount of power and thrust from the machine, which is all Id ever hoped for when I brought it!