Ideal qualities of a E-Folder

[kevinfox]

After having a fun time at Prestigne and testing much of what's on offer I'm trying to work out would make the best folding bike for day to day use. Ideally it would replace a car or motorbike so I guess the minimum is:

1)Easy quick folding mechanism to allow access to Public Transport
2)Doesn't fall over when folded
3)Transport wheels so the bike can be pulled along when folded like a suitcase (when taking it into work for security for example)
4)Waterproof storage bag that works with the transport wheels
5)Peak power of about 500W for hill climbing etc
6)360+ Watt Hour Battery for sensible range and to cope with the peak power
7)Throttle control
8)Carrying ability
9)Front suspension
10)20 Inch wheels for stability on poor roads
11)Gears
12)Sensible gearing so your not pedalling air at 15MPH
13)Comfortable seat
14)15.5 MPH power speed limiter
15)A quality product without easily buckled wheels, rust at the first sign of rain or loose fragile parts

Please add anything you think I've missed.

Does anything on the market have all this?

I realise that the legal limit is 200 / 250W continuous power but I'm talking about Peak power here.

 

[frank9755]

Main failing of folders is lack of a high enough gear to enable it to be pedalled sensibly. need 70" at least, ideally 80 or 90.

 

[flecc]

This is a much considered question Kevin, and most have a wish list like yours.

The trouble is that it's technically impossible, the weight of what you've listed adding up to around 25 kilos at least, and probably more, so far from ideal for carrying for anyone other than body-builders.

And it's not just the weight matter of course but the bulk of 20" wheel bikes, and that's why the very clever Brompton's tiny fold with 16" wheels has dominated for public transport use. In e-bike terms the Nano Brompton is the clear leader for that same usage, tiny low drag motor and small battery adding up to a total of around 18 kilos so still carryable for short distances.

My eZee Quando based Q bike fits with much of your specification and Frank's need, and has some added features to make it a truly universal e-bike, but at about 25 kilos and a touch bulky it's a car-boot folder, certainly not one to lug about very far:

The Q-bike
.

 

[Bigbee]

I think flecc said in another of my posts thats theres room for a folder with a central crank motor.

The wheels are a problem 16 inch being the best to transport folded but you need at least 20 inch for a decent ride,and theyre a bit big for the Tube!
Erm 20 inch wheels that fold please to 12 inches please!

 

[BertYardbrush]

Your going to have to compromise somewhere. Is the list in order of preference?
I have a folder because I've nowhere to keep a full size bike at home or at work.

I got a Quando 1 second hand. I did not like it because it was too low geared. I have fitted a 65T TA chainwheel (from Spa Cycles) on the front giving me 74 gear inches. I can now bowl along at 16 - 17 mph. I don't mind not having gears, the motor helps me get up to a decent cadence. I wouldn't call it light or particularly elegant but it does the job for my budget.

The new Wisper folder, which I haven't seen in the flesh, looks pretty good and aren't they bringing out a 36V version next year?

If I had the money I'd probably get myself a Dahon Matrix and get a conversion. But it's got 26" wheels so no good for public transport which is top of the original list.

 

[flecc]

The new Wisper folder, which I haven't seen in the flesh, looks pretty good and aren't they bringing out a 36V version next year?

That's far from certain, it will only happen if there's a proven demand, and I fear they would hit problems with that anyway.

The 24 volt version is powerful enough for sufficient speed and most hill climbing needs, so a 36 volt higher powered version would only be useful for steeper hills.

But it's a front wheel motor and the geometry of folders is such that they lift the front wheel very easily, so traction on steep hills would be a real problem with around 500 watts or more of power.

Despite it's 25 kilos, my Q-bike lifts it's front wheel high on any start on 18% or over hills, so I have to stand up and lean well forward to keep it down. That's ok since it has a rear wheel motor, but if it was a front motor it would just spin the front wheel uselessly on that sort of steep hill start and spin it on every ripple of the uphill surface, constantly losing traction and wearing the tyre.
.

 

[kevinfox]

Thanks for the reply guys, my knowledge expands ever further!
Flec, your Q bike looks pretty good, well done on sorting something that fits your needs!

So in summary, nothing currently made is exactly right and the best way is to convert a good non electric folder to crank drive.

Guess my next thread is on it's way

 

[eddieo]

I think flecc said in another of my posts thats theres room for a folder with a central crank motor.

The wheels are a problem 16 inch being the best to transport folded but you need at least 20 inch for a decent ride,and theyre a bit big for the Tube!
Erm 20 inch wheels that fold please to 12 inches please!

you cant carry an E bike on the tube because of the batteries

 

[flecc]

you cant carry an E bike on the tube because of the batteries

That's bit of a stumper then.

Don't suppose they'd be thrilled about hydrogen power either.
.

 

[kevinfox]

That's bit of a stumper then.

Don't suppose they'd be thrilled about hydrogen power either.
.

Not sure I'd want to cart upwards of 20Kg around on a crowded tube and on escalators - I was thinking of trains in the Midlands

 

[eddieo]

That's bit of a stumper then.

Don't suppose they'd be thrilled about hydrogen power either.
.

I am truly amazed! Something you did not know regards E bikes Tony I will have to go and lie down........

That is the deep line tube (section 12) you cant take a normal bike either but you can a folder such as the brompton. You can transport normal bikes on the surface lines like the Metropolitan line.......

I am surprised how fast these brompton's can go.........One flew past me in London last night.

 

[flecc]

I am truly amazed! Something you did not know regards E bikes Tony I will have to go and lie down........

That is the deep line tube (section 12) you cant take a normal bike either but you can a folder such as the brompton. You can transport normal bikes on the surface lines like the Metropolitan line.......

I wouldn't know their rules Eddie, the last time I rode on the tube was 54 years ago just before Christmas 1955. I know the Paris Metro far better than I know the tube, but public transport in general isn't my forte. The last time I rode on a bus was also 1955 but in Somerset, complete with conductor, card tickets in a wooden rack hung from the conductor's neck and a punch machine to validate them!

Half the membership won't have a clue what I'm talking about!
.

 

[eddieo]

I wouldn't know their rules Eddie, the last time I rode on the tube was 54 years ago just before Christmas 1955. I know the Paris Metro far better than I know the tube, but public transport in general isn't my forte. The last time I rode on a bus was also 1955 but in Somerset, complete with conductor, card tickets in a wooden rack hung from the conductor's neck and a punch machine to validate them!

Half the membership won't have a clue what I'm talking about!
.

You are a true ascetic to all things "E"

 

[rog_london]

Not sure I'd want to cart upwards of 20Kg around on a crowded tube and on escalators - I was thinking of trains in the Midlands

As I understand it, e-bikes are not permitted on trains either - though I regularly take my Wisper on the train and no problem at all so far (I don't push my luck in the rush hour, of course). I have taken it on the tube too - once. I hadn't planned to do that but there was a problem with my usual train home from East Croydon and I ended up on the Bakerloo line from Willesden Junction to Harrow & Wealdstone.

The general rule for non-folding unpowered bicycles on the Tube is that you can take them on any section where the train runs above ground (and on certain lines you can take them underground as well, though you are NOT allowed on escalators with them) and there are additional restrictions during busy periods, but again, only on certain lines. It's complicated indeed. It needs a bit of forward planning and you would need to consult the relevant part of the TFL website for information specific to your planned journey if you wanted to take your bike with you.

There are no restrictions at all on unpowered folded bicycles.

I think you would be unlucky to get pulled up because you had taken an e-bike on the train or the tube. I don't think the staff know about the difference or even what the rules might be, and as long as you weren't being a pain by insisting on taking it on a packed tube train (for example) you'd be fine. I'd just plead ignorance and feeble mindedness anyway - it would hardly be acting in my case!

Rog.

 

[flecc]

As I understand it, e-bikes are not permitted on trains either

Rog.

Our member Rooel has created a precedent by getting Scotrail to accept e-bikes. See his post on this here:

Scotrail permission for e-bikes
.

 

[rog_london]

Our member Rooel has created a precedent by getting Scotrail to accept e-bikes. See his post on this here:

Scotrail permission for e-bikes
.

Now you mention it, I remember seeing that. Of course, the batteries can't be an issue, because if they became one they'd also have to ban laptops, personal stereos (please God) and mobile phones.....

Thinking about it, I think I'd happily give up being able to take my e-bike on the train or tube if there was an effective ban on (non) personal stereos and mobile phones.....

Rog. (disengage old git mode)

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Er, have you seen the batteries on that peculiar, anonymous, crank motor site?

24V 10AH LifePo4 Battery + Battery Bag + Charger

You might have a little explaining to do on the tube with that set up.

 

[rog_london]

Er, have you seen the batteries on that peculiar, anonymous, crank motor site?

24V 10AH LifePo4 Battery + Battery Bag + Charger

You might have a little explaining to do on the tube with that set up.

Well, bloody hell! You'd probably suffer a similar fate to that poor guy who got shot at Stockwell station a year or three ago. I doubt you'd get chance to bother with an explanation.

Rog.