IMMPORTANT ETRA proposals 2

Wisper Bikes

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IMPORTANT ETRA proposals 2

Proposals

1) As for cycles with pedal assistance excluded from the scope of Directive 2002/24/EC:

On behalf of the industry, ETRA proposes to change the current definition, which is as follows:

“cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kilowatts, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.”

Into the following new definition

“cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with one or more auxiliary electric motors having a combined maximum continuous rated power of 0.50 kilowatts, of which the output is cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling. Such cycles shall not be considered motor vehicles.”

Motivation:

Addition of “one or more” in order to facilitate the development of vehicles with more than one motor. This provision opens a lot more technical possibilities, for instance cargo/transport vehicles or three-wheelers for physically impaired with a small motor providing a very high torque for the riding off phase and a main motor to assist the pedalling.

Addition of “combined”: is the logical result of adding the provision “one or more”

Increase of the maximum continuous rated power from 0.25 to 0.50 kilowatts: as explained above, pedal assisted bicycles are now appealing to a much broader and more varied public throughout Europe. This development however shows that 0.25 kilowatts is not always sufficient to produce comfortable and safe electric bicycles that perform at the required level. The current power limit proves to be insufficient, for instance in hilly and mountainous areas, for people suffering from obesity, for three-wheelers developed for physically impaired people, for vehicles developed to transport cargo, … The increase of the power will have no negative effect on the safety of the currently best-selling bicycles because in that instance safety is mainly linked to the speed, for which this proposal holds no change. For cycles used in the above-mentioned conditions, the increase of power will have a positive effect on the safety because it will provide the cyclists far more reliability. Since the cyclist can rely on a cycle that in all conditions will perform at the required level, he will also enjoy more safety and comfort.
The Chairman of CEN TC333 “Cycles”, Mr Siegfried Neuberger has attended the meetings at which these proposals were developed. Together with the industry, he confirmed that a CEN standard for excluded pedal assisted bicycles with a maximum continuous rated power of 0.50 kilowatts can effectively provide the required level of product safety. For that purpose, the current standard EN 15194 could be reviewed and adapted to the new requirement in the type-approval legislation.

Deletion of “progressively reduced and finally”: the industry unanimously agrees that this requirement has no use. Since the requirement is not further specified, the industry currently does not know how to comply with it. The characteristic line of the motor management is a complex combination of pedalling frequency, actual speed and pedalling power. The essential requirement in the definition to ensure safe use of the vehicle is that the motor is cut off at 25 km/h. The requirement of progressive reduction has no bearing whatsoever on the safe use of the vehicle. This is the reason why we propose to delete the above-mentioned words.

Addition of “such cycles shall not be considered motor vehicles”: this provision should result in absolute clarity as to which vehicles are subject to type-approval and which are not. Today, at least one member state has introduced additional requirements for excluded pedal assisted cycles, which have resulted in a legal vacuum. This can be prevented by means of the proposed addition.

As for cycles with pedal assistance not excluded from the scope of Directive 2002/24/EC:

On behalf of the industry, ETRA proposes the introduction of a new category as a subdivision of the current category L “mopeds”. This new category would be defined as follows:

“Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with one or more auxiliary electric motors having a combined maximum continuous rated power not exceeding 1 kilowatts, of which the output is cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 45 km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.”

Motivation:

A growing number of consumers show an interest in pedal assisted cycles with higher performances to replace the car for commuting, for utilitarian purposes (for instance pedalled taxis), for sportive use (for instance pedal assisted mountain bikes), etc. The industry believes that a separate category for these vehicles in combination with an appropriate type-approval will allow this market to achieve its full potential. It will facilitate the development of the products as well as putting them in the market. This category will provide legal certainty, whereas improved efficiencies will bring about a reduction of type-approval costs.

For this category the industry is prepared and ready to define the components and characteristics that will need to be submitted to type-approval as well as to develop the testing procedures for those components and characteristics.

As for cycles and low-performance mopeds with an electric motor:

Low-performance mopeds are currently defined by means of a note to Annex I. The definition is as follows:

“Low-performance mopeds, i.e. mopeds with pedals, with an auxiliary engine of power not exceeding 1 kW and a maximum design speed not exceeding 25 km/h”

On behalf of the industry, ETRA proposes the introduction of a new category as a subdivision of the current category L “Mopeds”. This category would be defined as follows:

“Cycles and mopeds with one or more electric motors of combined power not exceeding 1 kW and a maximum design speed not exceeding 25 km/h.”

Motivation:

A booming market stimulates technical development and product innovation. Quite a number of completely new vehicles cannot be classified under the current legislation, because that still pertains to the traditional mopeds. In Annex 2 are images of some of these vehicles. The market introduction of these vehicles is severely obstructed by the legal void.

The industry believes that a separate category for these vehicles in combination with an appropriate type-approval will allow this market to achieve its full potential. It will facilitate the development of the products as well as putting them in the market. This category will provide legal certainty, whereas improved efficiencies will bring about a reduction of type-approval costs.

At the same time, this category will cover all cycles equipped with an auxiliary electric motor that can propel the vehicle by itself.

For this category the industry is prepared to define the components and characteristics that will need to be submitted to type-approval as well as to develop the testing procedures for those components and characteristics.
 
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Bigbee

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 12, 2008
445
1
If this goes through,when do people think the changes will be implemented?IE, is it worth waiting to get a bike in case I can have a 500w in a few months time?
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
Hi David

Thanks for taking the trouble to keep everyone informed.

One specific question relating to Bigbee... Would it be technically possible to offer him a 500w bike with a limiter which would allow the bike to comply with the current standard until the new law is in force, when, hey presto! the power is full on?

That way there would be a smoother transition to the new market.

All the best

Andy
 

Wisper Bikes

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Smooth transition

Hi Andy

We could do that and indeed already have 500W models ready to go. However the problem would be the extra £250.00 cost of a 500W motor and controller which would be a wasted expense if we were to be turned down, which is a very real possibility.

Regards David
 

AndyOfTheSouth

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2009
347
4
I meant that they would be released between the time of approval and implementation. I had assumed that this was the delay to which you were referring.

From what you've said, it sounds like you could in principle smooth out the market by selling '500watt ready' bikes to people who would otherwise be delaying purchase. Whether or not it would be worth doing so would presumably depend on the duration of the delay.
 

z0mb13e

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 28, 2009
578
3
Dorset
Interesting read, I take it that the proposal for the 45kph/1kW bikes would require registration, insurance, motorbike helmet, mot etc?

Would this also apply to the 25kph/1kW bikes?

I think upping the power to 500w especially with the wording 'continuous rated power' gives massive scope for providing powerful hill climbers.

I guess it would be pushing it to expect the EU to agree a speed increase for the middle class bikes as well, but 30-35kph would be perfect for commuting!

I am also glad that no one has tried to tie down the method of providing the power. When fuel cells are able to supply more power than Li-on batteries we will be ready to take advantage!

Fingers crossed and again, if this gets to the voting stage at the European Parliament let me know and I will email some MEPs.
 

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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500w

I meant that they would be released between the time of approval and implementation. I had assumed that this was the delay to which you were referring.

From what you've said, it sounds like you could in principle smooth out the market by selling '500watt ready' bikes to people who would otherwise be delaying purchase. Whether or not it would be worth doing so would presumably depend on the duration of the delay.
Sorry Andy I misunderstood, yes great idea!

Thanks.

All the best David
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
What a tease you are David:) but this looks very positive for e biking generally.....

will the 500watt weigh any more? and any idea as to the battery range any feed back yet from those on the road?

I for one would risk getting one in advance, as long as the power/battery management was economical. I would only want to use the full power hill climbing:rolleyes: (I'm a good boy I am)

Approx the price difference between a 250 watt and a 500 watt bike will be?
 

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Interesting read, I take it that the proposal for the 45kph/1kW bikes would require registration, insurance, motorbike helmet, mot etc?

Would this also apply to the 25kph/1kW bikes?

I think upping the power to 500w especially with the wording 'continuous rated power' gives massive scope for providing powerful hill climbers.

I guess it would be pushing it to expect the EU to agree a speed increase for the middle class bikes as well, but 30-35kph would be perfect for commuting!

I am also glad that no one has tried to tie down the method of providing the power. When fuel cells are able to supply more power than Li-on batteries we will be ready to take advantage!

Fingers crossed and again, if this gets to the voting stage at the European Parliament let me know and I will email some MEPs.
Hi Zombie

Yes I think these bikes will require full moped red tape and helmet but that will be down to the induvidual member state, we will be asking for high end cycle helmets to have a reclasification for use on EPBs. We are asking for new rules on the type approval of the more powerful EPBs so they do not have to conform to ICE mopeds i.e. LED lights are not allowed to be used as the main head light on ICE mopeds!

All the best David
 

Wisper Bikes

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Apr 11, 2007
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Tease

What a tease you are David:) but this looks very positive for e biking generally.....

will the 500watt weigh any more? and any idea as to the battery range any feed back yet from those on the road?

I for one would risk getting one in advance, as long as the power/battery management was economical. I would only want to use the full power hill climbing:rolleyes: (I'm a good boy I am)

Approx the price difference between a 250 watt and a 500 watt bike will be?
Hi Eddie

We can put a 905se 500S on the next container for you if you like they are £250.00 more than the 250W model.

The range is lower than the 250W motor if you use the extra power. But surprisingly it is only about 20% lower when used in normal circumstances.

I saw an episode of Top Gear when Jeremy Clarkson had the Stig drive a "sensibly priced family car" as fast as possible round their circuit as Clarkson followed on his bumper in a BMW M5 the BMW returned better fuel economy as it was not being stretched to anywhere near it's limit.

All the best David
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
When you are our kinda weight, believe me the poor old bike is stretched to the limit!lol:D

so it will have the 40%/80% power split as current bike?

would I be right in thinking that on 40% setting, the power will probably be similar to a current bike on the 80%?

£250 more seems a bit steep....In earlier threads the 500 watt kit was expected to be £280? (including wheel motor and controller) is there that much difference in price between the 2 motors?
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Plus will the 500 watt bike be heavier?
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,316
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500w

Hi Eddie

The extra £250 is because of the extra cost of the new and superb Bafang 500W motor and our new 500W controller. The price is not set in stone yet but will certainly be in that region.

The kit will still be in the region of £280 to £300 as the cost of a rear wheel and tyre is not enormous!

There will be three levels of power available, the first two will be similar to the low and high on the 250W. The third or the new high will be the powerful mode.

The bike will be about a kilo heavier.

All the best David
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
There will be three levels of power available, the first two will be similar to the low and high on the 250W. The third or the new high will be the powerful mode.

The bike will be about a kilo heavier.

All the best David

and a ... a...a de restrict switch and a ...a ...a throttle.....O Lordy! E Bike heaven! :D
 

monster

Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
120
0
whats the deal with "max continuous rated power" how is this tested and enforced? surely that would be a destructive test to any motor thats legal? peak power is still not restricted i see.

the definition at the moment creates a massive grey area. 2kw peak bikes are presumably allowed?
 
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z0mb13e

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 28, 2009
578
3
Dorset
The max continuous rated power is exactly that - say 500w power dissipation continuously. The peak power would be serveral magintudes higher but only for a few seconds. So you should be able to ramp it up to 1kw for a short while without any problems. I see this as clearing up the grey area that exists at the moment. This would mean the hill climbing ability would be greatly improved.

The continuous max power rating implies an inherent peak maximum. There are also the limitations of the controller electronics (which again would also be able to deal with a rated peak power which may or may not match that of the motor) and a continuous power rated to suit the motor. Not forgetting the batteries which are also limited in what power they can supply safely.

I can't comment on how the current crop of motors are rated, but the law (if I remember correctly) only says '250w' which on its own could be taken any number of different ways. ie Peak, RMS, average etc.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,527
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The full law does specify maximum continuous power so it's the same method for the 250 watt units as for the new 500 watt ones. I'm confident that in practice what you've said here is will be comfortably exceeded:

The max continuous rated power is exactly that - say 500w power dissipation continuously. The peak power would be several magintudes higher but only for a few seconds.
since that would make the new 500 watt units much less powerful than some current motors. For example the eZee Bafang units on my bikes have an actual continuous output power capability of over 700 watts on their nominal 36 volt supply and will run at that for the whole of a battery charge and more if necessary and will not fail at that. I've personally run for 7 miles at 10/11 mph almost continuously at that sort of output. I've checked the motor temperature after thoroughly warming up on a very hot day at the start and end of one of those runs and actually found no rise at all so failure isn't in the picture. Likewise the early Powabyke motors in their very heavy bikes could pump out 700 watts at 7 mph when climbing for as long a hill as you'd ever find without any distress or overheating, and a similar situation exists with some 250 watt rated Heinzmann units.

The maximum continuous ratings were only correct in the very earliest of e-bike days, and those bikes were complete wimps in consequence. Since then the ratings can be doubled for many bikes, similar to the 1000 watts you mention for the 500 watt motors, my betting is that the 500 watt ones will be able to be run at 1000 watts continuously.
.
 
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monster

Pedelecer
May 13, 2009
120
0
cool. sounds like some of these commercial bikes are gonna be pretty awsome little units then. the last commercial bike i tried was a bit wimpy. i'ld love to test some new units with a power meter or something. maybe we should start measuring seconds to reach 0-15mph?
 

dan

Pedelecer
Sep 30, 2009
137
-1
Hi Bigbee

I would think this would take in the region of 12 months if we are very lucky!

All the best David
changing EN15194 will make no difference to the legal requirement of the UK road traffic act. For the power of pedal assisted electric bike to be increased above 200 watts (note 200 watts not 250 watts) would need a change in the road traffic act. You are not going to have that happen in 12 months. Changing the EU safety standard does not trump the road traffic act.