Is it possible to unrestrict a Sprint?
- Thread starter pgbw
- Start date
It should be pgbw, it's been asked so many times! 
The answer is no. As you own a Sprint you'll know it doesn't cut dead at 15 mph, it just runs on to slightly higher speeds until it has no more revs to give, that higher speed depending on the state of battery charge.
In other words, like most bikes it's motor's internal gears are arranged to take it to around the legal limit at the motor's maximum revs on the voltage of the battery.
The Torq and one or two others now are internally geared in the first place so the motor's maximum revs take them to about 22 mph, but to make them legal on the road, electronic limiting is added.
Therefore, unless a bike is designed for higher speeds in the first place, they can't be achieved later by normal means.
There is the alternative of using a higher voltage battery with a different controller to gain some speed, but that's a whole new can of worms!
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The answer is no. As you own a Sprint you'll know it doesn't cut dead at 15 mph, it just runs on to slightly higher speeds until it has no more revs to give, that higher speed depending on the state of battery charge.
In other words, like most bikes it's motor's internal gears are arranged to take it to around the legal limit at the motor's maximum revs on the voltage of the battery.
The Torq and one or two others now are internally geared in the first place so the motor's maximum revs take them to about 22 mph, but to make them legal on the road, electronic limiting is added.
Therefore, unless a bike is designed for higher speeds in the first place, they can't be achieved later by normal means.
There is the alternative of using a higher voltage battery with a different controller to gain some speed, but that's a whole new can of worms!
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Thank you for explaining this for me flecc.
I guess that we'll wait until the Sprint wears out - my wife has already done nearly 8,000 miles, and they don't have unlimitted life, as I understand it. Has anyone had a motor wear out?
If the motor goes, there may be an option to fit a different one, I suppose?
I guess that we'll wait until the Sprint wears out - my wife has already done nearly 8,000 miles, and they don't have unlimitted life, as I understand it. Has anyone had a motor wear out?
If the motor goes, there may be an option to fit a different one, I suppose?
That's a lot of miles
8,000 miles is a lot of miles.
How many batteries have you worn out in that time ?
It would be very interesting to learn of your experiences in that department.
You must have a lot of information to offer.
I, for one, would be pleased to hear it.
Any other useful information that you can impart?
Peter
Forgive me if you've posted it before.
8,000 miles is a lot of miles.
How many batteries have you worn out in that time ?
It would be very interesting to learn of your experiences in that department.
You must have a lot of information to offer.
I, for one, would be pleased to hear it.
Any other useful information that you can impart?
Peter
Experiences with batteries
My wife got her Sprint just under 2 years ago, and uses it to ride to the various schools that she works at. She soon found that two batteries were useful, as she would go out with one, come back later, and have the other 'ready to go'. She also sets out with the charger on some days, and charges at one school before going to another later. Days vary from 15 miles up to 20 miles round trip. Yesterday she was doing end-of-term shows, and did 41 miles total (she said).
She runs with two NiMH batteries, and the first pair lasted about 18 months each. She's now on a second pair, and loans me one of hers when I can commute to work (The Li-on that I bought with my Cadence just doesn't suit my commute). We were very lucky that 50 cycles were able to get us a NiMH in May.
Because this is around Macclesfield, there are 100m plus hill climbs between several schools and home (and, indeed, on the end of my commute home, which is 18 miles each way - with a charge in the office).
I've not done anything like the miles - I'm a fair weather cyclist, and I won't attempt my commute when the clocks have changed (i.e in the dark). We did a run on Sunday morning which was 18 miles plus, with the hill at Alderley Edge (Artist's Lane) near the end, and the batteries were running out at the end, but it's inconceivable that we'd do any of this without battery assist.
I hope this is interesting (but I fear it's not really). Is that the sort of thing people want to know? I can post more specific details if anyone wants...
My wife got her Sprint just under 2 years ago, and uses it to ride to the various schools that she works at. She soon found that two batteries were useful, as she would go out with one, come back later, and have the other 'ready to go'. She also sets out with the charger on some days, and charges at one school before going to another later. Days vary from 15 miles up to 20 miles round trip. Yesterday she was doing end-of-term shows, and did 41 miles total (she said).
She runs with two NiMH batteries, and the first pair lasted about 18 months each. She's now on a second pair, and loans me one of hers when I can commute to work (The Li-on that I bought with my Cadence just doesn't suit my commute). We were very lucky that 50 cycles were able to get us a NiMH in May.
Because this is around Macclesfield, there are 100m plus hill climbs between several schools and home (and, indeed, on the end of my commute home, which is 18 miles each way - with a charge in the office).
I've not done anything like the miles - I'm a fair weather cyclist, and I won't attempt my commute when the clocks have changed (i.e in the dark). We did a run on Sunday morning which was 18 miles plus, with the hill at Alderley Edge (Artist's Lane) near the end, and the batteries were running out at the end, but it's inconceivable that we'd do any of this without battery assist.
I hope this is interesting (but I fear it's not really). Is that the sort of thing people want to know? I can post more specific details if anyone wants...
I asked the same question about motors wearing out on a yahoo group for power assist, and some people there have been using the same electric motors over 10 years now. They weren't EZee, but no one spoke up about having a motor quit from wear anyway.
Deep Discharge
Peter
The sort of mileage per charge (in the main) that Mr. and Mrs. PGBW are doing suggests deep discharge and NiMH are more kindly disposed to this treatment
Peter
Sprints done 8000 miles
Thank you pgbw for that interesting and comprehensive reply.
I have Lithium which seem to be "popping their clogs" [well, at least entering their 7th age (ws)]after less than 1000 miles shared between 3 batteries.
If NiMH had been available (recently) I would have switched to them and ridden the Lithium into the ground.
I must wait for better times on NiMH availability.
Peter
Thank you pgbw for that interesting and comprehensive reply.
I have Lithium which seem to be "popping their clogs" [well, at least entering their 7th age (ws)]after less than 1000 miles shared between 3 batteries.
If NiMH had been available (recently) I would have switched to them and ridden the Lithium into the ground.
I must wait for better times on NiMH availability.
Peter
Why li-on is not suited to my commute
My use of Li-on is mostly doing quite long runs (up to 18 miles - my commute and practices for it), and I found that Li-on cut out on the hill (about 100m of climb), especially towards the end.
My first Li-on battery seemed to recover after being 'rested' for a few minutes when this happened. The subsequent battery (kindly provided by 50 cycles) didn't recover, and also failed me much earlier on a couple of occasions. I think this is the failure mode where deep discharge happens. I think it doesn't happen on NiMH, but I've recently had some revised battery advice from 50 cycles which suggests that it does.
I don't do these runs very often - I've only commuted by bike about 10 times this year, and the last two were purely on NiMH (my target is to do it once a week). I've done a number (maybe four) carrying an NiMH back-up to the Li-on, and needed the back-up each time. I also have had trouble with the charger refusing to charge the Li-on in the office, or only starting to charge at lunch time (not enough time to fully charge for the commute back).
So either I've been quite unlucky with the Li-on, or it's not up to the sort of thing her ladyship does routinely. I really want my own NiMH so that I don't have to borrow one of hers, and can get some more experience - assuming the weather allows!
My use of Li-on is mostly doing quite long runs (up to 18 miles - my commute and practices for it), and I found that Li-on cut out on the hill (about 100m of climb), especially towards the end.
My first Li-on battery seemed to recover after being 'rested' for a few minutes when this happened. The subsequent battery (kindly provided by 50 cycles) didn't recover, and also failed me much earlier on a couple of occasions. I think this is the failure mode where deep discharge happens. I think it doesn't happen on NiMH, but I've recently had some revised battery advice from 50 cycles which suggests that it does.
I don't do these runs very often - I've only commuted by bike about 10 times this year, and the last two were purely on NiMH (my target is to do it once a week). I've done a number (maybe four) carrying an NiMH back-up to the Li-on, and needed the back-up each time. I also have had trouble with the charger refusing to charge the Li-on in the office, or only starting to charge at lunch time (not enough time to fully charge for the commute back).
So either I've been quite unlucky with the Li-on, or it's not up to the sort of thing her ladyship does routinely. I really want my own NiMH so that I don't have to borrow one of hers, and can get some more experience - assuming the weather allows!
The fact that the Sprint can't be de-restricted isn't a great loss pgbw, the capability of extra speed always means a reduction in hill climbing ability whether or not the extra speed is used, and if the extra speed is used range will suffer as well. The speed capability can be compared to having a car stuck in one gear all the time, 2nd would give good hill climbing but top gear would give a higher speed.
The cutting out of the Li-ion battery on the long hill is something that others have experienced and does seem to be a normal characteristic of these batteries. It's worth bearing in mind that repeated deep discharging will considerably shorten the life of Li-ion batteries, however the opposite applies to NiMh where regular or semi-regular discharging to the cut off point is important to maximise life.
The cutting out of the Li-ion battery on the long hill is something that others have experienced and does seem to be a normal characteristic of these batteries. It's worth bearing in mind that repeated deep discharging will considerably shorten the life of Li-ion batteries, however the opposite applies to NiMh where regular or semi-regular discharging to the cut off point is important to maximise life.
Just an added note pgbw. As Ian said, fully discharging NiMh during riding (or by using a charger with a discharging facility) is good for them. Both of these methods stop the discharge at just over 1 volt per cell.
However, if NiMh batteries are discharged to zero volts by doing it manually with a resistor or similar means, that destroys them. This is sometimes misinterpreted as meaning they should not be discharged in use, and that advice you got to this effect is probably due to this misunderstanding.
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However, if NiMh batteries are discharged to zero volts by doing it manually with a resistor or similar means, that destroys them. This is sometimes misinterpreted as meaning they should not be discharged in use, and that advice you got to this effect is probably due to this misunderstanding.
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I think I should say that I'm reasonably happy with the range of the Cadence with NiMH. I'm also pleased that people agree that it's not unsafe to run NiMH batteries down to the controller's limit. We find we run NiMH batteries to the limit the bike will allow (the controller's limit) every now and again anyway, so we haven't attempted anything more by way of discharging. I fear that it was an initial expectation that Li-on would allow the same sort of use that has lead to my dislike of them.
It's my wife who wants the extra speed, but who often either does the most serious hill-climbing first in her run, or is doing shorter runs (12 miles vs. 18 miles), so would be able to manage the range effects. With her level of usage, I think she can sort out how to manage the speed/range trade-off!
It's my wife who wants the extra speed, but who often either does the most serious hill-climbing first in her run, or is doing shorter runs (12 miles vs. 18 miles), so would be able to manage the range effects. With her level of usage, I think she can sort out how to manage the speed/range trade-off!
So looks like the only way of increasing the Sprints top speed is a bigger front wheel or the fattest tyre possible
My Sprints Li-on for the first month was perfect.Regardless of throttle position or gradient I had a green light all the time.
Now I find some days I get amber climbing hills and some days I don`t.
Also I don`t recharge at work. And I`ve had days where I can have amber in the morning, then I can only presume balances itself while resting and get green all the way home. (Very strange)
My Sprints Li-on for the first month was perfect.Regardless of throttle position or gradient I had a green light all the time.
Now I find some days I get amber climbing hills and some days I don`t.
Also I don`t recharge at work. And I`ve had days where I can have amber in the morning, then I can only presume balances itself while resting and get green all the way home. (Very strange)
I think the phenomenan you are talking about flec is called cell reversal. Funnily enough I saw an article that says "both NiMH cells and NiCad cells can be drained fully flat, all the way to zero volts, with no consequence".. Information about Battery Packs
I wonder if the cell reversal occurs when discharging unbalanced NiMh packs? Very confused with mixed messages.
No. I'm not speaking of cell reversal, which is a different thing Andrew.
I disagree with that ebikes.ca site on this and other things mentioned on that page. Discharging NiMh cells below 1 volt does damage them, not just according to me but according to the leading manufacturers of them. I would rather trust them than an ebike site. NiMh cells over-discharged can refuse to subsequently recharge, just as they do when left for too many months without use and recharge, due to the natural charge loss of around 1% a day taking them below critical.
They've also brought up the hoary old myth that memory effect doesn't exist, once again opposing every manufacturer of NiCad cells.
Best stick to manufacturer information or the excellent Battery University site, that US site isn't the first ebike site giving incorrect battery information, and probably won't be the last.
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I disagree with that ebikes.ca site on this and other things mentioned on that page. Discharging NiMh cells below 1 volt does damage them, not just according to me but according to the leading manufacturers of them. I would rather trust them than an ebike site. NiMh cells over-discharged can refuse to subsequently recharge, just as they do when left for too many months without use and recharge, due to the natural charge loss of around 1% a day taking them below critical.
They've also brought up the hoary old myth that memory effect doesn't exist, once again opposing every manufacturer of NiCad cells.
Best stick to manufacturer information or the excellent Battery University site, that US site isn't the first ebike site giving incorrect battery information, and probably won't be the last.
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Well it made me look twice.I just follow the Giant instructions!
Going back to the sprint, does the hub motor cut straight out at 15mph or tail off to 15?
My Sprint gradually fades out above 15mph, still giving minimal assistance at 17mph. Funnilly enough 17mph on the sprint seems very slow, have checked the comp against my GPS and it is accurate though.
Yes, as Ian says, and that's the case with all the eZee bikes except the Torq. They are geared to reach 15 mph towards the end of charge, so at earlier stages with the battery having a slightly higher voltage, that speed is exceeded. There's no artificial tail off before 15 mph, that part of European law being widely ignored by many manufacturers. Since peak torque is reached at about 8/9 mph, the fall off above that speed can be presented as power reduction if they're pushed!
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