Juicy Classic Dutch or Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch?

kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
Hello, I'm going to be buying my first electric bike and am currently looking at two choices; the Juicy Classic Dutch for £1085 and the Apache Wakita City for 1200 Euros/£1100. They're both step-throughs and look really nice in my opinion. The major differences are that :

  • The Juicy only has a 300Wh 10Ah battery whilst the Apache has a 470Wh 16Ah battery
  • Juicy has rigid suspension whilst Apache has Suntour NEX HLO suspension fork with a crown lockout
  • Juicy has LED panel whilst Apache has LCD (not a big difference tbh)
  • Juicy has disc brakes whilst Apache has normal V-brakes
  • Juicy is a British company whilst Apache is Czech so has to be bought online from greatebike.eu (anyone used them? parent company is ekolo.cz which seems to be a well-reviewed Czech company on google)
  • Can test ride Juicy classic near my house, can't test ride the Apache, although both are rear-hub motors
  • Juicy offers finance whereas I would have to pay upfront for the Apache
  • Juicy has 12 months warranty whilst Apache has 24 months warranty for frame and components & 12 months for battery - but I need to get a warranty inspection done within 3 months of purchase at their service partner in London
From this it looks as if the Apache Wakita is the winner but I wanted to get other people's opinions on here. For example if anyone has used either of these bikes or the brands before or whether I can find something cheaper but similar. My normal commute would be around 10 miles on flat ground to uni 3 times a week but I would like to go cycling around country parks near/in London (e.g. Richmond Park, Lee Valley, South Downs) from time to time when the weather's good.

Juicy Dutch Classic: https://www.juicybike.co.uk/electric-bikes/classic-click-dutch-style-electric-bicycle
Apache Wakita City 2020 model 26 inch: https://apache-bike.cz/en/catalogue/product/wakita-city-26

classic-profile-19-ice-1000.jpgwakita-city-28-raspberry-g.jpg
 

Amoto65

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 2, 2017
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No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.
 
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kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.
Which battery did you get or which one would I need? Were the ranges on their site fairly accurate?
 

Jonah

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 23, 2010
882
246
EX38
No contest for me, would buy the Juicy, have had one off them before and it was great plus they are based in England, My opinion but at the end of the day it is your money and your choice.
I would agree, Juicy are good company with good support. Never heard of Apache. Some others perhaps worth looking at?

Wisper (a little more expensive but you might get a deal for similar money)

Eg


or Woosh
Eg
 

Chainring

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
328
158
How did you find that company?!* They have a good range in the city bikes. There is one similar to the one you have pointed out, that has Nexus 3-speed. If all your work is on flat ground, that would be ideal. But no front suspension. 13ah battery.
 

kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
I would agree, Juicy are good company with good support. Never heard of Apache. Some others perhaps worth looking at?

Wisper (a little more expensive but you might get a deal for similar money)

Eg


or Woosh
Eg
I'd never heard of Apache too before I found their bike, but they seem to be big in the Czech Republic fwiw. Thanks for the link to the Woosh Crusa, looks like a great bargain. Would I be able to move the battery to behind the seat post? That's the only niggle I have, tube-mounted>rack-mounted imo.

How did you find that company?!* They have a good range in the city bikes. There is one similar to the one you have pointed out, that has Nexus 3-speed. If all your work is on flat ground, that would be ideal. But no front suspension. 13ah battery.
I just searched "european electric bicycles" haha. I asked about the difference between the Tanka Nexus and Wakita and they said go for the Wakita just in case due to the suspension, though maybe they want me to spend more euros...

Regarding support, the website that's selling it (greatebike.eu) has a deal of sorts with a local company called Fully Charged who also sell and repair ebikes.
 

Amoto65

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 2, 2017
807
502
61
Cheshire
All my bikes are used around the Peak District so do quite a lot of climbing as for range it is dependent on terrain etc, but both Juicy and Wisper gave good range.
 

kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
All my bikes are used around the Peak District so do quite a lot of climbing as for range it is dependent on terrain etc, but both Juicy and Wisper gave good range.
that sounds good then. I'm going to go test ride the Juicy tomorrow and see how it feels
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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Tbh and though Juicy are recommended and have good CS, I think the LWB battery behind the seat tube design is so yesterday and a dated design, Woosh, Wisper and Kudos both have more modern and up to date offerings though some of their prices will reflect in having better specs. All day long I would choose Hydraulic disc on any e -bike.
 
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kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
Tried the Juicy Dutch Poco which is the smaller 24 inch version today because the main Dutch Classic was a bit unavailable. Overall I liked it, especially with the throttle assist to help me set off. I'm 5ft 2 so it's an ideal size for me however it does have less range than the slightly bigger 26 inch version (36 miles at 470Wh compared to 40-55 miles at 470Wh) despite being the same price. Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic? Managed to negotiate £100 off for getting the 470Wh battery upgrade but I feel I didn't haggle as well as I could i.e. ask for free battery upgrade since the Apache 470Wh is the same price as the standard Juicy 315Wh. I'm going back to try out the Classic on Monday so are there any tips for bargaining with my LBS?
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,311
any tips for bargaining with my LBS?
You need to use the phrase 'I will give' and stick to it.

Trying to bargain without placing an order is waste of time for both parties.

In other words, pick a deal/discount and make it clear to shop you will buy the bike if they agree.

Waving the cash in front of the salesman's nose at this point - literally smell the money - was the old fashioned way of doing it.

I have pulled out my debit card and placed it on the salesman's desk to reinforce the point of me being a serious buyer.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
16,387
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic?
yes, that will work. The main problem for small riders and big bikes is that the arm reach feels wrong, so the bike appears a bit clumsy.
I do agree that 24" bikes will suit you very well but you shouldn't have excluded folding bikes in your search. Some modern folding bikes are much lighter than full sized 26".
 

JuicyBike

Trade Member
Jan 26, 2009
1,671
527
Derbyshire
Would I be fine with just putting the seat post as far down as possible on the Dutch Classic?
Pleased you like our Classic.

Before anyone can say if a seat adjustment will be okay or not, try one.
If you let us know which shop is neatest to you I can check they have one available.

Our website also gives a range of inside leg measures suitable for each bike but that on its own is nothing like sitting on and riding.

Arms for instance vary in length :)

In general go for larger size wheels for comfort, range and stability.

If you email us directly we can sort out an offer for you.

Hope this helps.
 

kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
You need to use the phrase 'I will give' and stick to it.

Trying to bargain without placing an order is waste of time for both parties.

In other words, pick a deal/discount and make it clear to shop you will buy the bike if they agree.

Waving the cash in front of the salesman's nose at this point - literally smell the money - was the old fashioned way of doing it.

I have pulled out my debit card and placed it on the salesman's desk to reinforce the point of me being a serious buyer.
Wow that's quite a serious way of bargaining but it does sound very effective! I will follow your advice and stick to my price along with making it clear that I'll buy on the spot if they accept my deal. Thanks for the tips!

yes, that will work. The main problem for small riders and big bikes is that the arm reach feels wrong, so the bike appears a bit clumsy.
I do agree that 24" bikes will suit you very well but you shouldn't have excluded folding bikes in your search. Some modern folding bikes are much lighter than full sized 26".
Thanks for the folding bike recommendation
Pleased you like our Classic.

Before anyone can say if a seat adjustment will be okay or not, try one.
If you let us know which shop is neatest to you I can check they have one available.

Our website also gives a range of inside leg measures suitable for each bike but that on its own is nothing like sitting on and riding.

Arms for instance vary in length :)

In general go for larger size wheels for comfort, range and stability.

If you email us directly we can sort out an offer for you.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for the reply :) I am going back to my local shop to try the Classic since they have a few available. I have just sent an email to your sales team regarding an offer .
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,311
Wow that's quite a serious way of bargaining but it does sound very effective! I will follow your advice and stick to my price along with making it clear that I'll buy on the spot if they accept my deal. Thanks for the tips!


Thanks for the folding bike recommendation

Thanks for the reply :) I am going back to my local shop to try the Classic since they have a few available. I have just sent an email to your sales team regarding an offer .
As regards how much discount you can reasonably expect, margins on ebikes tend to be smaller than on pushbikes.

The bike shop may have about £300 in a £1,100 bike.

You sound like a reasonable buyer, so will accept you need, to use an American phrase, to leave a little meat on the bone for the retailer.

What they are prepared to accept is up to them, but I doubt they will want to sell the bike for less than £150 gross profit.

I reckon a £150 discount for cash would be fair to both parties.
 

kazumadesu

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 6, 2020
8
1
As regards how much discount you can reasonably expect, margins on ebikes tend to be smaller than on pushbikes.

The bike shop may have about £300 in a £1,100 bike.

You sound like a reasonable buyer, so will accept you need, to use an American phrase, to leave a little meat on the bone for the retailer.

What they are prepared to accept is up to them, but I doubt they will want to sell the bike for less than £150 gross profit.

I reckon a £150 discount for cash would be fair to both parties.
Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
16,387
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.
have pity on the shop owner!
He has rent, rates, wages, insurance ...
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,311
Interesting, so if I wanted to get another £50 off, to get a total £150 discount, should I lowball them at a £200 discount? I completely understand why they wouldn't want to go lower especially if they're independent.
Asking for £200 off and being prepared to settle for £150 is a reasonable strategy.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,407
16,387
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Asking for £200 off and being prepared to settle for £150 is a reasonable strategy.
On an £1100 bike?
VAT: £183.33, ex VAT: £916
His gross margin is about 25% on £916 = £229.
Your credit card costs him 2%, £22.
He's spent money on your demo bike and maybe an hour on advising you.
Then he'll spend another hour to prep the bike for you.
Have pity on him.
 
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