Kalkhoff Wheel removal problems

[Spinalot]

As can be seen in my other thread
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/14097-very-worried.html
I am having a few problems.
Whilst writing that thread and getting a few responses it bought to mind another concern I have. Whilst trying to fix the issue of the grinding sound from the hub I tried to remove the wheel to get a closer look at the hub without all the gubbins in the way but I could not get it out. The wheel butts up to the mudguard and the only way I can see to remove the wheel would be to deflate the tyre. Surly this is not how it is supposed to be? In the end I did not do this as I frankly, did not want the effort just to see the hub more clearly.
Talking of the rear mudguard, My wheel seems so far forwards that it is too close to the mudguard. Any and all mud or road debris that gets carried around on the tyre scrapes on the front portion of the rear guard. there seems to be no forward/back adjustment of the rear mudguard. I cannot simply move the rear wheel further back, as was my first thought, as the chain length will not allow that. the only option I can think of is to insert some washers in between the seat stay mudguard connection. ANyone else had this problem with the Kalkhoff?
I must admit to being a bit miffed at what at first seems like poor design.
I hope I explained it properly, if you need more info to clarify or pictures, let me know.

 

[103Alex1]

Can you post some photos ? It took me weeks to get to understand how to easily sort my back wheel but I have a different model to you and am not 100% sure how closely the setups match each other.

The mudguards don't need moving and you should have plenty of clearance - I didn't have any of those sorts of issues on mine. Understanding the hub gear quirks and how to get rid of wheel slip and gear grind took quite a bit more investigating and trial/error but I know exactly how to set the wheel now and the bike runs like a dream when you get it right. If the chain tension is right the wheel sets in exactly the right place. Ignore the mudguards and stays when aliging the wheel. It sounds like you probably don't have the wheel set back in the dropouts correctly.

Also make sure your gear cable goes back in the right way round the hub (!) and that you've fully disconnected it and slipped the brakes off before attempting to remove the rear wheel. Bike should always be upside down. Your gears should be in 4th if I remember right on 8sp when you disconnect the cable from the hub.

If it's any consolation my LBS completely failed to reset the rear wheel properly and I ended up having to work it out myself. Kalkhoff dealers can do it in their sleep of course - but it's a bike you have to get to know. Was the 1st bike I ever worked on properly trying to maintain myself .... bit of a baptism of fire to be honest. But apart from the horizontal dropouts which I don't like on any bike (and need for good washers without wear to hold the wheel) it's actually extremely well built and designed, and runs very well indeed when it's correctly set up.

 

[50 Hertz]

Are you absolutely sure that you can't move the wheel further back in the slots? There should be a little bit of adjustment available courtesy the movement in the chain guide. This might give you enough clearance between the tyre and mudguard attachment (motor end) to stop the build up of road debris and rubbing as you describe. If you can't do this, you may benefit from inserting an extra link of chain. This will then allow the wheel to move further back.

Removing the wheel is tight with the tyre inflated. I find that I have to compress the tyre slightly by pushing the wheel forward with a moderate amount of force. This will be harder to do if larger tyres, such as Big Apples, have been fitted and mat well necessitate the deflation of the tyre.

 

[103Alex1]

Are you absolutely sure that you can't move the wheel further back in the slots?

I need to pull mine back into them with the bike upside down pretty determinedly or the chain is slack. If it is slack the gears slip and grind horribly. It all sounds very much like the wheel isn't far enough into the dropout slots (back towards you when bike upside down). You need to pull the wheel back with quite some force when tightening the axle nuts and make sure washers seated when doing them up.

Tighten the left first until washers just engage then do the same with the right checking chain tension maintained. Then you can tighten both up a little at a time until washers hold the wheel, pulling towards you until washers engage sufficiently to hold the wheel set. It took me many attempts to work out how to do that and what happens if you don't.

 

[Spinalot]

The pictures are not too clear, My phone is not great at close up shots.

The wheel will defiantly not go any further back than it is right now, it is very frustrating as muck is often rubbing, I estimate that there is less than 10mm clearance at the closest point. (near the bottom chain stay, where the bottom of the mudguard connects to the frame)
How do I release the brakes as you suggest? The manual mentions nothing of this. The brakes are magura hydralic rim brakes I tried moving the quick release lever but this removed the whole brake assembly on one side only. I quickly put it back as I was not sure if it was the right thing to do. Whilst talking of the brakes the front one the wheel is perfectly in the middle of the brakes but on the rear the right hand side is a 15mm gap and the left is 3mm. I cannot find a way of setting the brake blocks to 3mm both sides like the manual says it should be.
Part of me wishes that 50cycles give a mini bike maintenance course. The frustrating thing for me is that I should not be having to do this after only a week of having the bike :-(

 

[103Alex1]

I know - I felt totally frustrated at first because I'd never done any bike maintenance work before getting my Agattu and had to learn from videos how to do all you are describing plus change tyres etc.

I thought it was just me being inexperienced. It was ... to some extent ! I'll try to find you a video of it - Kalkhoff have video tutorials I found online which show how to remove / replace back wheel on a C8 step by step. I then had to work out how that translated to a C11.

Your brake misalignment is an indicator you haven't set the wheel back properly. But they don't have to be completely even to work fine. It's not a "novice job" to be honest even after all my subsequent experience with eBike build !

 

[dmcgoldrick]

not an easy job......my dealer found it difficult to tighten chain/realign rear wheel when my bike was serviced....(alfine 8 hub, v brakes) and had to get the LBS to assist. getting the rear brake aligned should be easier, but there are 3 or 4 ways to do that depending on the brand. you should find you tube stuff for your brake or similar but you really need to get the seller to get this bike into fully working order. once its sorted you will probably get years of trouble free cycling......
regards

 

[103Alex1]

Here's a link to 50cycles' instructional video on how to remove rear wheel. It includes refitting. Found it googling for help in the early days.

Kalkhoff Electric Bike - Part 5 - Removing the Rear Wheel - YouTube

I must give it a go up on my stand next time I take mine off - completely forgot about this video 'till your thread reminded me ! I used this alongside the electronic manual 1st time I took the wheel off and refitted it, but everything was upside down as I had no stand at that time.

I think the problem is from your first removing the wheel and not getting it back in right rather than how the bike was supplied if I'm honest. I did the same changing the tyres and tubes before taking in to LBS for 1st tune. I would up with a £50 bill from LBS ... main reason I decided to learn how to maintain myself !

Apparently they "spent ages on the job"... and managed to crack my chainguard under the fixing bolt (which I found out later when it dropped onto my chain mid-ride and I went clattering down the road). I reckon they took it off to get the nut out of the way of the gear cable arm and over-tightened it when it was put back on. Took over 6 weeks to get a replacement (£35) and wound up glueing the other one together till it arrived. Several times with superglue in the dark outside supermarket on hands and knees in depths of Winter till I found "Serious Glue".

So I know how you feel about outlaying dosh and winding up with problems inside weeks. In may case it was quite a few hundred more than your bike bill too ! But the problems were not down to the Kalkhoff itself - it was down to not knowing how to look after it on both my part and the part of my LBS.

Don't fret - there's nothing wrong with the bike and you'll get to grips with this soon enough. But as I said - just watch those retaining washers in the dropouts. If they wear owing to axle nuts not being tight enough the wheel will slip, gear problems return, and the fix is a new set of washers. Matt @ 50 Cycles will help you. I discussed at length with him, he knew I was having to do the maintenance myself and didn't charge me for washers or postage.

 

[Spinalot]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I will hopefully hear from 50Cycles tomorrow and can get to the bottom of the grinding noise, I Will also hopefully get help with the wheel removal trouble I am having.

Once again, thanks

 

[103Alex1]

The brakes are magura hydralic rim brakes I tried moving the quick release lever but this removed the whole brake assembly on one side only. I quickly put it back as I was not sure if it was the right thing to do.

Yes the whole assembly comes off. On both sides if you want - just push the assembly clear of the frame. On the right of the rear brake assembly with bike upside down there's a pin they slot back onto if they're like mine - and you can adjust them to get alignment with rim correct so they don't touch the tyre when brake applied. You just push the other side on and make sure they're seated down fully before closing the QR lever.

I remove the whole assembly regularly to clean frame under brake fittings etc. Magura brakes are very good - just get them aligned right with rim and use the dials on the levers to adjust distance from rim, which governs how sharply they engage when brake lever applied.