Laser projector bike light for the front

D

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Seems a totally daft idea. I can't see any car driver noticing a green bike symbol on the road, and if you point it higher, it'll blind sombody.

I just got a five Cree T6 XM-L. This one lights up the road at least as bright as a pair of car headlights on main beam. Take it from me that no-one will not notice your there whether your along-side, behind or in front of them and regardless of which way your pointing. If that's not enough you can now get a torch with nine of these LEDs - 11,000 lumens. Compare that with your average 100 lumen bike light that we used to think was quite good. I think they use the nine LED ones in lighthouses now.


9x US Cree LED Lamp Torch Flashlight TrustFire AK-47 9xCree MX-L T6 11000 Lumens | eBay
 

NRG

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Bloomin 'eck you'll be spotting aircraft with that at 10,000ft! :D
 

Scimitar

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Nobody will not notice you? You must be joking - ask any one of the thousands of motorcyclists who've had twats pull out in front of them in spite of having their headlights on.
A dopey burger is a dopey burger and there's nothing that's going to make them any different if they happen to be dopey that day.
 

Geebee

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Yep, I used to ride with a 50w MR16 halogen and had a women pullout on me, I was watching her eyes (thats how close we were) she was looking straight at the light but she was zoned out, I yelled and you could watch the brain reconnect to the eyes by her expression.
I could have been a Semi and she would not have seen me.

Having said all that, the brighter the better the chances of being seen by those that aren't on auto pilot, especially in town with all the competing lights.
 
D

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Nobody will not notice you? You must be joking - ask any one of the thousands of motorcyclists who've had twats pull out in front of them in spite of having their headlights on.
A dopey burger is a dopey burger and there's nothing that's going to make them any different if they happen to be dopey that day.
I'm talking about night-time. You don't get many of these "sorry mate I didn't see you" at night because drivers are looking for lights. not cars. In daytime they're looking for cars, so don't see bikes and motorbikes.
 

amigafan2003

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I'm talking about night-time. You don't get many of these "sorry mate I didn't see you" at night because drivers are looking for lights. not cars. In daytime they're looking for cars, so don't see bikes and motorbikes.
I think the point Scimitar was making that even if you look like a car you'll still get pulled out on. After all, most car-on-car accidents happen in the dark winter evenings.
 

Scimitar

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I think the point Scimitar was making that even if you look like a car you'll still get pulled out on. After all, most car-on-car accidents happen in the dark winter evenings.
Exactly. The whole bikes-with-lights-on in daytime is a barrel of contraditory evidence. There was a groundbreaking study done a few decades ago in urban US areas when it was shown that daytime headlight use didn't make any appreciable difference to accident rates ie, SMIDSYs. Otoh, there is some evidence to point to riders taking less care and riding less defensively because they have their lights on.
So, I can't say one way or another for sure which works best. When I've got my headlight or riding lamp (another 55W spot) on, I tend to assume other road users have seen me and for sure, I notice them doing so, but I've also had some near-SMIDSY twats do their thing on me.
When I'm running with no lights on I assume they haven't seen me anyway, even though the bike has a white fairing and my helmet is a mixture of dayglo colours (gay as hell, I know). Actually, I'm undecided to paint it the proper matt black or not - it's a useful visibility aid as it is.
 
D

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I think the point Scimitar was making that even if you look like a car you'll still get pulled out on. After all, most car-on-car accidents happen in the dark winter evenings.
I think that you're still missing the point. At night time you don't look like a car, bus or anything. All they'll see is a massive bright light bearing down on them, which will scare the ** out of them.
 
D

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Exactly. The whole bikes-with-lights-on in daytime is a barrel of contraditory evidence. There was a groundbreaking study done a few decades ago in urban US areas when it was shown that daytime headlight use didn't make any appreciable difference to accident rates ie, SMIDSYs. Otoh, there is some evidence to point to riders taking less care and riding less defensively because they have their lights on.
So, I can't say one way or another for sure which works best. When I've got my headlight or riding lamp (another 55W spot) on, I tend to assume other road users have seen me and for sure, I notice them doing so, but I've also had some near-SMIDSY twats do their thing on me.
When I'm running with no lights on I assume they haven't seen me anyway, even though the bike has a white fairing and my helmet is a mixture of dayglo colours (gay as hell, I know). Actually, I'm undecided to paint it the proper matt black or not - it's a useful visibility aid as it is.
Wer're talking about whether a 11,000 lumen torch is going to get you seen better than a green bike projected onto the road at night time. Daylight riding lights has nothing to do with it, and while you mention it, I can tell you from my half a million miles on a motorbike that you get get less cars pulling out on you if you have a bright headlight on in the daytime than when you don't.
 

Jeremy

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Many years ago I did a lot of work on visibility (not specifically in this area, we were looking at enhancing the chances of seeing trials aircraft and released weapons within danger areas). It is not anywhere near as simple and straightforward as just "fitting a bright light".

First off, we are far, far better at spotting moving high contrast changes than we are at spotting bright colours, lights or whatever. For example, dayglo orange is pretty hopeless at being spotted (except against a very dark background), whereas a large area of black moving on white or grey is excellent (and is the reason that training aircraft are now black, rather than the old yellow or white with red stripes).

Secondly, apparent size, or more specifically the spherical arc of your retina that the object covers, is far more important than contrast, colour or brightness. This is one reason why cycles and motorcycles are far less readily spotted than cars and trucks, we are inherently wired to spot things that are much bigger than us (it's apparently something that goes back to when we were hunters and hunted, where big things moving usually meant potential death!). This is one reason that cyclists and motorcyclists are often spotted very late, when the spherical arc of their image projected on the retina exceeds the size that triggers the "automatic alert dimension" the observer suddenly sees them, as if for the first time.

Increasing the contrast by fitting bright lights helps to a modest extent, but what would be even better would be if you could increase your apparent size. I strongly suspect (but haven't done any testing, or read of any test results) that fitting lights or other high contrast devices at the extreme edges of a bike and rider might well be far more effective at gaining attention than fitting a single very bright light in the centre. What you want to do is make yourself look larger, pretty much as some animals do when threatened by predators.
 

saneagle

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Yes, that sounds about right. So I need three of those torches. One on each handlebar and one strapped to my helmet. 33,000 lumens. That should do it.
 
D

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I've got two of those torches with 3 of those LEDs and one with 5. That's 14000 lumens. Do you think that that will be enough. Ive got another single LED one and another three LED one coming, so I could get it up to 19000, but I can't think of the best place to mount them.

BTY, the HID car headlights put out about 3000 lumens each, if that puts in in perspective.
 

Jeremy

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It'd be nice to see some proper data first, but my gut feeling is that a few quite modest lights, positioned at either end of the bars, on top of your head and down low, either side of the forks, might be a good start. Even better might be some sort of flexible, high brightness, LED strip around the edges of your jacket and trousers. This would sharpen the contrast around the edge of your body and might increase your apparent size to an observer to some extent. Might be worth some of the safety guru's having a think about this, as the technology exists to do it, all that's needed is some good application-focussed engineering.
 

Scimitar

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and while you mention it, I can tell you from my half a million miles on a motorbike that you get get less cars pulling out on you if you have a bright headlight on in the daytime than when you don't.
Oh, willy-waving, eh?
I can't actually measure up to that, I'm afraid, only having done about 250K on bikes and 500K on other vehicles. I know I'm right, by the way.
And, are you willing to bet your life that every dopey sod waiting in side road to pull out is going to see your Great Swinging Dick of a light and see you coming? 'Cos that's what you'll be doing.
Best of luck with that - you'll need it.
 
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Jeremy

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Worth also bearing in mind that the subtle psychological effect known as risk compensation may play a part here.

In essence, if you provide a feature that makes a driver/rider feel safer (seat belts are the classic and well-proven example) then they will compensate by accepting a greater risk level. With drivers this effect can be quite pronounced, and first came to light when the incidence of deaths and injuries to pedestrians and cyclists increased following the introduction of seat belt legislation.

To some extent I suspect the same applies to cyclists, too. If someone feels safer when they are wearing a helmet or body armour, or, perhaps, when they have better visibility aids, there is a possibility that they may ride less defensively, so effectively compensating for the reduced risk by increasing other risk factors.

Anyone who has engaged in a bit of motorsport in a car may recognise this feeling. Certainly I would always feel so much safer with a tight 5 point harness and helmet in a car, and would correspondingly drive in a far more aggressive way (in the same car) than I would without them.

It has been said that one pretty much sure fire way to reduce the incidence of death and injury to cyclists, motor cyclists and pedestrians would be to fit all cars with a 6" steel spike in the centre of the steering wheel and remove the driver's side seat belts and air bags. The feeling of extreme vulnerability this would induce would force a big change in driver behaviour, to the benefit of other road users.
 

Scimitar

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Worth also bearing in mind that the subtle psychological effect known as risk compensation may play a part here.


It has been said that one pretty much sure fire way to reduce the incidence of death and injury to cyclists, motor cyclists and pedestrians would be to fit all cars with a 6" steel spike in the centre of the steering wheel and remove the driver's side seat belts and air bags. The feeling of extreme vulnerability this would induce would force a big change in driver behaviour, to the benefit of other road users.
Yep, it's true.
For a few months I used an ex-Local Authority Transit minibus which wasn't fitted with seatbelts because it was exempt from them. The LA, being a bunch of arses, actually skimped on the cost of them because they weren't actually required - unbelievable, eh?
Anyway, I drove that thing with a degree of respect for impact forces and, while I can't say I was slow in it, I certainly didn't take as many minor chances as I normally do - as we all do every day.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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Oh, willy-waving, eh?
I can't actually measure up to that, I'm afraid, only having done about 250K on bikes and 500K on other vehicles. I know I'm right, by the way.
And, are you willing to bet your life that every dopey sod waiting in side road to pull out is going to see your Great Swinging Dick of a light and see you coming? 'Cos that's what you'll be doing.
Best of luck with that - you'll need it.
Well I've only got a 2" dick (diameter that is) so I doubt they'll see it coming, but they sure as hell will see 11,000 lumens coming.
 

Scimitar

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Well I've only got a 2" dick (diameter that is) so I doubt they'll see it coming, but they sure as hell will see 11,000 lumens coming.
I really doubt the makers' claimed light output anyway - no doubt it is pretty bloody bright, but 11,000? Nah. At one metre, even doubtful at that.
edited to add...
It's not unknown for the less reputable makers of lighting to quote luminosity at one foot, instead of one metre - makes a huge difference.
 
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amigafan2003

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I think that you're still missing the point. At night time you don't look like a car, bus or anything. All they'll see is a massive bright light bearing down on them, which will scare the ** out of them.
Nope - still had people pull out on me with my bright lights.

They look but don't see.