Latest Project Finished -Nearly

[saneagle]

I bought this folding bike from a catalogue returns outlet a few months ago, thanks to Guerney pointing it out. I got this one and the Argos £245 one for £200 the pair. This one is 24v and was sold with a known faulty battery.

First I repaired the battery - sort of. It was clear that it had been tested because the faulty cell group was already marked. Rather than put in new cells, I was able to get a replacement from somewhere pretty cheap. At 24V and 13A, it was quite weak, but OK to pop down the shops or town centre.

My plan was always to convert it to 36v, so that's what I've been doing the last few days, which has been an absolute nightmare. The previous system was a King Meter T319 LED display with Santrol 13A controller with sealed connectors. I only wanted to keep the pedal sensor, so I spent ages searching through all my stuff to find the matching connector and make adapters, only to find that the stupid thing wasn't compatible with the controller. I therefore had to remove the BB to replace the sensor, but it was the old type (not cartridge) type done up by a robot to impossible tightness.

The bit I needed to remove was the thing that's flat and like a washer with two flats on it, and it's virtually impossible to remove without some special tool that clamps in place through the BB. After a whole day trying everything I had, I finally got a solution involving two adjustable spanners, a spare pedal arm, a length of 6mm threaded bar plus various nuts and washers, and a long tube to get the necessary leverage. I should've taken a photo because it was quite a creative solution. I replaced the BB with a cartridge type so that nobody will ever have to go through that again.

The rest of it was wiring in the throttle, new PAS and LCD, all of which had the wrong connectors and/or wire lengths. I tried various speed sensors, but I couldn't get the three-wire ones to work, so I left it off, mainly because this thing had already been too much hassle.

Finally all finished, I set P2=0 in the LCD to get the speed from the motor halls for the legal cut-off, and set P4=1 and C4=3 for the legal throttle. I have yet to set the correct value for P1 to get the correct speed display and cut-off, but the display shows cut-off at 15 mph even if the displayed speed is not correct. I suppose I could set it to cut off at and show 15 mph at say 18 mph by choosing the corresponding P1 value. At 24v and 13A, it only does 12 mph, anyway.

Like all these bikes, the gearing is OK for pedalling up to about 12mph, and you can go up to 15mph if you like spinning. The very low gearing compensates a bit for the low power when hill-climbing. The KT control system, as ever, is perfect, apart from the relatively low power and speed of the bike. It's just about worth swapping over to KT, just for that if you're a discerning rider.

Now comes the main purpose of this project. For £89, including delivery, you can get exactly the same battery in 36v 10Ah version from PSWPower, which is what I've ordered. The KT controller should seamlessly adjust itself between 36v and 24v, depending on which battery I insert.

Check out PSWPower for very cheap batteries of all types:

Electric bicycle ebike Battery 36V 10.4AH Haitian Electric Bike Battery Pack Bicycle Lithium 18A BMS output 350W fits bafang tongsheng TSDZ2

Electric bicycle ebike Battery 36V 10.4AH Haitian Electric Bike Battery Pack Bicycle Lithium 18A BMS output 350W fits bafang tongsheng TSDZ2

pswpower.com

Total cost so far:
Bike £100
KT controller, LCD4, throttle and PAS around £60
BB £6
24v battery £100
36v battery :£89
Total £354.

Photos of bike. I shifted the battery down and forward a bit on the rack fixings:

 

[Sparksandbangs]

Well done for persevering.

Was the moving it near the bin an unconscious decision when you were getting frustrated with it?

 

[Waspy]

Nice mini suspension forks, I didn't know they existed.

The rack looks good.

As for the pedal sensor, why did you not just leave it on there and fit a new one on the other side?

 

[saneagle]

As for the pedal sensor, why did you not just leave it on there and fit a new one on the other side?

Good question with a simple answer. It had the old type of BB with nasty things sticking out.

https://www.bikeride.com/images/bike/bottom-bracket-400x280.jpg

There is some discussion and advice about these BBs here, but mine had the added complication that the pedal sensor was flush with the upper surface, so the recommended tool wouldn't go down on one side. My solution was similar to the one shown with the adjustable spanners, but the jaws on mine are tapered so couldn't be clamped down. I used two adjustable spanners orientated 180 deg apart, which cancelled out the tapers.

Alternate tool or method For Park bottom bracket tool - Bike Forums

Classic & Vintage - Alternate tool or method For Park bottom bracket tool - Hello All. Wanted to ask if there is an alternate tool or method to remove the early style drive side bottom bracket bearing cup, Maybe more readily available/ even less costly than this Park brand bottom bracket tool...

www.bikeforums.net

 

[Waspy]

Good question with a simple answer. It had the old type of BB with nasty things sticking out.

https://www.bikeride.com/images/bike/bottom-bracket-400x280.jpg

There is some discussion and advice about these BBs here, but mine had the added complication that the pedal sensor was flush with the upper surface, so the recommended tool wouldn't go down on one side. My solution was similar to the one shown with the adjustable spanners, but the jaws on mine are tapered so couldn't be clamped down. I used two adjustable spanners orientated 180 deg apart, which cancelled out the tapers.

Alternate tool or method For Park bottom bracket tool - Bike Forums

Classic & Vintage - Alternate tool or method For Park bottom bracket tool - Hello All. Wanted to ask if there is an alternate tool or method to remove the early style drive side bottom bracket bearing cup, Maybe more readily available/ even less costly than this Park brand bottom bracket tool...

www.bikeforums.net

So were you able to replace the bottom bracket with a standard one? Or did you put the original back in?

 

[saneagle]

So were you able to replace the bottom bracket with a standard one? Or did you put the original back in?

Yes, I had to get the old BB off to put the new pedal sensor on. I replaced the BB with a modern cartridge type. I had one in my stock of parts. I noticed that Topbikekit have them for about a fiver, so I bought a couple more to replenish my stock.

Incidentally, I went out for a longer ride on this bike to get a better impression of it. I have come to the conclusion that it's a lot better with the KT controller.

Before, it was like a very slow moped. The lower PAS levels were just too slow, and when you put it on the high one, it just went 12 mph everywhere on level roads, and you couldn't pedal with any meaningful effort until it reached that speed.

Now, the power is very controllable and you can pedal as hard or easy as you want, like any other decent ebike, except that the speed is sort of scaled down. Normal max speed is about 12 mph, which suits the general lack of power and low gearing. Hill-climbing is pretty good. I got up my 14% test hill with minimal effort, now with an extra 15% power than before (15A vs 13A). The motor's going to be really good at 36v, and it'll be perfect for 15 mph, but the gearing will be useless and the brakes probably lacking. The brakes are OK as it is.

 

[Tony1951]

When you get that new battery (36v 10Ah) from PSW Power, I would be interested in whether it would fit the Argos bike we both have.

I'm thinking long term here. I rode my Argos 15 miles yesterday and even up hill, it was still showing four leds indicating battery voltage. The weather was warm - about 25 c so I think we can guess why it had not started to sag at that point.

Eventually a new battery will be needed though, so it would be good to know if the one you bought would fit the Argos cradle and connector.

 

[saneagle]

I

When you get that new battery (36v 10Ah) from PSW Power, I would be interested in whether it would fit the Argos bike we both have.

I'm thinking long term here. I rode my Argos 15 miles yesterday and even up hill, it was still showing four leds indicating battery voltage. The weather was warm - about 25 c so I think we can guess why it had not started to sag at that point.

Eventually a new battery will be needed though, so it would be good to know if the one you bought would fit the Argos cradle and connector.

The battery doesn't fit the other bike. It's a very common type fitted to many bikes, including Wisper, but it's different to the Argos one. You'd need the whole rack to go with it.

 

[Tony1951]

I

The battery doesn't fit the other bike. It's a very common type fitted to many bikes, including Wisper, but it's different to the Argos one. You'd need the whole rack to go with it.

Thanks for that.

 

[Waspy]

Yes, I had to get the old BB off to put the new pedal sensor on. I replaced the BB with a modern cartridge type. I had one in my stock of parts. I noticed that Topbikekit have them for about a fiver, so I bought a couple more to replenish my stock.

Incidentally, I went out for a longer ride on this bike to get a better impression of it. I have come to the conclusion that it's a lot better with the KT controller.

Before, it was like a very slow moped. The lower PAS levels were just too slow, and when you put it on the high one, it just went 12 mph everywhere on level roads, and you couldn't pedal with any meaningful effort until it reached that speed.

Now, the power is very controllable and you can pedal as hard or easy as you want, like any other decent ebike, except that the speed is sort of scaled down. Normal max speed is about 12 mph, which suits the general lack of power and low gearing. Hill-climbing is pretty good. I got up my 14% test hill with minimal effort, now with an extra 15% power than before (15A vs 13A). The motor's going to be really good at 36v, and it'll be perfect for 15 mph, but the gearing will be useless and the brakes probably lacking. The brakes are OK as it is.

Can't you change the gearing?

 

[Waspy]

I

The battery doesn't fit the other bike. It's a very common type fitted to many bikes, including Wisper, but it's different to the Argos one. You'd need the whole rack to go with it.

Alternatively, get any rack that fits a 20" folder, screw some plywood to the top of it, screw a football boot bag to the plywood. Then you can shove any battery you like inside the football boot bag.

Isn't this what one of the original gurus on this forum used to do?

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for that.

Yes, I ordered a 52T chainring from TBK with the rest of my order. I also have a 7-speed DNP freewheel with 11T top gear, but this bike is 6-speed and i don't really want to change shifter and everything else. Also, I think it's a good bike for low speed, but doesn't really have the stability and brakes for higher speed. As it is, it's great for nipping down the shops. You wouldn't really want to do long journeys on it, but if you needed to do just an occasional one, the higher speed from 36v would help a lot. The 10Ah 24v battery would give about 10-12 miles of range for most riders, while as the 36v one will give 15 -25 miles.

 

[Waspy]

Yes, I ordered a 52T chainring from TBK with the rest of my order. I also have a 7-speed DNP freewheel with 11T top gear, but this bike is 6-speed and i don't really want to change shifter and everything else. Also, I think it's a good bike for low speed, but doesn't really have the stability and brakes for higher speed. As it is, it's great for nipping down the shops. You wouldn't really want to do long journeys on it, but if you needed to do just an occasional one, the higher speed from 36v would help a lot. The 10Ah 24v battery would give about 10-12 miles of range for most riders, while as the 36v one will give 15 -25 miles.

Yes, probably a 52 tooth chainwheel and leave it at 6 speed will be fine, considering what it is, basically a shopping bike.

Not much sense in spending money to make it a 7 speed, this is a budget project after all.

 

[Tony1951]

Yes, I ordered a 52T chainring from TBK with the rest of my order. I also have a 7-speed DNP freewheel with 11T top gear, but this bike is 6-speed and i don't really want to change shifter and everything else. Also, I think it's a good bike for low speed, but doesn't really have the stability and brakes for higher speed. As it is, it's great for nipping down the shops. You wouldn't really want to do long journeys on it, but if you needed to do just an occasional one, the higher speed from 36v would help a lot. The 10Ah 24v battery would give about 10-12 miles of range for most riders, while as the 36v one will give 15 -25 miles.

I would not have been seen dead on a bike like the Cheapo Argos one a few years ago, but it really suits the sort of use you just described - at least for me. It would not suit everyone, I am sure, especially if they were a lot heavier than I am. As you say, the speed is lower than many other e-bikes. The freewheel modification would bring down the rapid cadence, but mostly these days, I am riding mine on the mid setting where the power cuts around 12 and 13 miles an hour. At that speed the cadence is fine, though more than 15 or 16 and I feel rather more comic than I would like. I just settle down and breeze along on it - sometimes just to the shops and sometimes, like yesterday for a 15 mile trip along a railway path in the hills here where my partner and I went to a pub in the middle of nowhere and enjoyed some pale ale on a really lovely day in the pub garden.

Last week, the bike did 24 miles with my niece riding it and I rode my converted Specialised bike on the trip. The other bike (Bafang BBs01) is much more powerful on the flat or the hills, and the gearing is more suited to riding fast, but, somehow, I usually reach for the little Argos bike unless I want to go much further. In summer temperatures, it can certainly go to 24 miles on the mid assist setting even at a year old and over 1100 miles covered. I reckon the battery has done about 55 cycles of full discharge / charge, based on my back of a fag packet calculation of dividing the mileage 1100 / 20 (average 20 miles per charge - a combination of mid and high setting).

I have no regrets at all about the impulse purchase.

Yesterday on our ride up the South Tyne Valley

 

[Waspy]

I would not have been seen dead on a bike like the Cheapo Argos one a few years ago, but it really suits the sort of use you just described - at least for me. It would not suit everyone, I am sure, especially if they were a lot heavier than I am. As you say, the speed is lower than many other e-bikes. The freewheel modification would bring down the rapid cadence, but mostly these days, I am riding mine on the mid setting where the power cuts around 12 and 13 miles an hour. At that speed the cadence is fine, though more than 15 or 16 and I feel rather more comic than I would like. I just settle down and breeze along on it - sometimes just to the shops and sometimes, like yesterday for a 15 mile trip along a railway path in the hills here where my partner and I went to a pub in the middle of nowhere and enjoyed some pale ale on a really lovely day in the pub garden.

Last week, the bike did 24 miles with my niece riding it and I rode my converted Specialised bike on the trip. The other bike (Bafang BBs01) is much more powerful on the flat or the hills, and the gearing is more suited to riding fast, but, somehow, I usually reach for the little Argos bike unless I want to go much further. In summer temperatures, it can certainly go to 24 miles on the mid assist setting even at a year old and over 1100 miles covered. I reckon the battery has done about 55 cycles of full discharge / charge, based on my back of a fag packet calculation of dividing the mileage 1100 / 20 (average 20 miles per charge - a combination of mid and high setting).

I have no regrets at all about the impulse purchase.

Yesterday on our ride up the South Tyne Valley
View attachment 64142

Nice picture. I am more than happy to bimble along at 12MPH on my bike, it's more relaxed and comfortable on an unpaved track.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the country I was out yesterday on part of National Cycle Route 45. Swindon to South Cerney. Sadly, I took no pictures.

I forgot I had set the wheel size to 20" because previously I fitted the kit to my folder. So the bike would only do about 13MPH (normally about 17.5MPH). But I didn't care, I was just enjoying the day, I figured it out when I got home.

 

[Tony1951]

Nice picture. I am more than happy to bimble along at 12MPH on my bike, it's more relaxed and comfortable on an unpaved track.

Meanwhile, at the other end of the country I was out yesterday on part of National Cycle Route 45. Swindon to South Cerney. Sadly, I took no pictures.

I forgot I had set the wheel size to 20" because previously I fitted the kit to my folder. So the bike would only do about 13MPH (normally about 17.5MPH). But I didn't care, I was just enjoying the day, I figured it out when I got home.

I generally take pictures, but sometimes regret not having done so. On the other hand, many of those I do take are so rubbish that I delete them soon after getting home - especially any with me on them.

When I went out with my niece last week we came across a herd of maybe a hundred sheep being moved about half a mile from one field to another on the road. They covered the road with horrible cr ap and it is still on the tyres of both bikes. This is my Argos folder with my niece riding it - rather slowly - even more than usual. You can see the sheep muck on the road.

 

[Waspy]

I generally take pictures, but sometimes regret not having done so. On the other hand, many of those I do take are so rubbish that I delete them soon after getting home - especially any with me on them.

When I went out with my niece last week we came across a herd of maybe a hundred sheep being moved about half a mile from one field to another on the road. They covered the road with horrible cr ap and it is still on the tyres of both bikes. This is my Argos folder with my niece riding it - rather slowly - even more than usual. You can see the sheep muck on the road.

View attachment 64145

Lovely country rides are so relaxing.

Rear tyre pressure OK on that bike your niece is riding? It looks a bit low IMHO

 

[Tony1951]

Lovely country rides are so relaxing.

Rear tyre pressure OK on that bike your niece is riding? It looks a bit low IMHO

She is quite tall.

Yes - they were low. I pumped it up two days ago.

 

[esuark]

especially any with me on them.

I know the feeling well I always seem to look older in photos than in my "Brothers Grimm" magic mirror!

 

[Tony1951]

Yes - I can't understand when I keep seeing pictures of my aged father that were taken yesterday. He died 14 years ago.

I remember when this started a while back and I would walk into a shop and see my dad's reflection in the glass window. 'I'm not like that! Surely?