Latest Project Finished -Nearly

saneagle

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Update:

The 36v battery came from PSWPower today. I'm not having much luck these days, dispite the fact that I'm helpig plenty of old ladies across the road. Unfortunately, this battery is slightly different to the last one they sent me. I can still use it, but I can't just insert it to get the dual voltage solution I'd hoped for, which I would have got if they sent me the same as the last one.

Although it's similar, it has many differences. 1. The connector is 4 pin instead of 5 pin; 2. The positive and negative are reversed (lucky I checked with a meter); 3 The outer case of the old one is too short for the insertion length of the new one; 4. The reciever of the new one has fixings that are further apart in the fore and aft direction.

All is not lost, as you'll see later.

This is a very cheap battery for £89, including a decent charger. It would be easy to fit it to any standard rack if you have basic DIY abilities. You could even make your own custom rack out of plywood and Wickes aluminium tube, like I showed about 12 years ago.

This is the battery 36v 10.4Ah 40 cell:
64221

I have an empty case from the faulty battery that was replaced when I ordered last time. You can see that its overall length is exactly the same as the new one, it's inserted length is the same as the shorter 24v one but shorter than the new 36v one. This photo shows what I mean. The empty 36v one is on the left:
64222

One solution would be to chuck the 24v one and bolt the new receiver into the rack. The front fixings line up exactly, but the rear two overlap the rack at the back, which I could fix with two adapter strips, which would be a short length of 2.5mm steel with two holes in - one for the receiver and one for the rack.

The astute ones amongst you would have figured out a simpler solution, which will give me what I want. I'm going to open the case, remove the contents and fit them into the empty case, then I have two batteries that I can insert into the present receiver, like I'd hoped for. Let's see how that goes.
 
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saneagle

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Here's what's inside the PSWP battery:
64293

The switch, charge socket and indicator LEDs are all glued in, so I had to cut all the wires and change every connector inside, then join them to the Wisper ones. It was a tight fit to get it in the other case, but it's all done now. I transferred the cell-pack with the BMS.

64294

I'll test it tomorrow, and if it all works like I hope it will be, then I'll go to stage 3. If the battery explodes, I'll blame Wisper - it's got their name on it. Should I black it out with a marker pen?
 
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Woosh

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I'll test it tomorrow, and if it all works like I hope it will be, then I'll go to stage 3. If the battery explodes, I'll blame Wisper - it's got their name on it. Should I black it out with a marker pen?
;);)
David will have something to say about that.
 

saneagle

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Wisper name is now blacked out.

Today, i was able to do the final test of riding the bike. I can now insert either the 36v battery or the much lighter 24v one. The controller recognises the difference and adjusts itself accordingly within about 3 seconds. At 36v, the motor gives 50% more torque. The gearing of the bike is so low that it's a little uncomfortable to spin the pedals for 15 mph. The only gear necessary with the 36v battery is top gear. I can comfortably go up steep hills in top gear, pedalling at 9 mph, where the motor is doing most of the work. I would be in second gear pedalling with a effort (still comfortable) on the same hills with the 24v battery. basically, everything is a bit weak at 24v, but the low gearing makes it work though you don't go very fast. 36v goes straight to 15 mph on the flat and you never need to change from top gear when you're on level 5. The advantage of the KT controller is that you can turn the power down to the same as 24v if you want, or any other level.

The main purpose of the project was to test how the dual voltage would work. The main advantage is the higher average speed of 36v, but it doesn't help this bike because of the crappy brakes and low gearing. I'm now looking for a suitable donor bike to transpose the electrical system onto. A Carrera Crosscity or similar would be suitable if I can find one at the right price.

Here it is with each battery installed. The 36v one sticks out a bit further.

64297

64298
 
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Woosh

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Battery still looks a bit big. I reckon you can squeeze a bag battery behind the seat post.
 

Woosh

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It wouldn't be dual voltage swappable then.
A man with your resourceful brain wouldn't take long to work out how to swap bag batteries if you need to swap at all.
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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I'm now looking for a suitable donor bike to transpose the electrical system onto. A Carrera Crosscity or similar would be suitable if I can find one at the right price.
The Carrera Crosscity is already an electric bike is it not?

Or did you mean the Carrera Intercity Disc 8 or 9?

There are surprisingly few 20" folders with disc brakes out there.

On my Intercity, the rack mountings are in an odd place but I noticed Peter.Bridge managed to get one to fit.

Argos have a 20" NON-folder with disc brakes on offer at £120.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/2728067?clickPR=plp:1:39
 

saneagle

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The Carrera Crosscity is already an electric bike is it not?

Or did you mean the Carrera Intercity Disc 8 or 9?

There are surprisingly few 20" folders with disc brakes out there.

On my Intercity, the rack mountings are in an odd place but I noticed Peter.Bridge managed to get one to fit.

Argos have a 20" NON-folder with disc brakes on offer at £120.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/2728067?clickPR=plp:1:39
Yes I did mean Intercity.

That Argos bike looks very interesting. It's similar to what I had in mind, so I ordered one. Many thanks for pointing it out.

I will chuck nearly everything except the frame, forks and handlebars. My plan had been to simply lift the electrical parts from my folder and drop them onto an Intercity, but with the Argos bike, it will be better to start afresh. The only thing I have reservations about is the rear derailleur. I need to change to a 9-speed cassette to get the right gearing. I can't find a photo of how the derailleur attaches. If it has a hanger, it should be OK, but cheap 6-speed derailleurs often don't use a hanger. I'll get the answer on Wednesday.

Anyone want a nice dual voltage folding bike?
 
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Bikes4two

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I'm enjoying following this thread - thankyou to all contributions especially @saneagle :)

I am curious as to what the 20" wheeled NON FOLDER brings to the game? I always thought 20" wheels (or 16" ones) were a riding compromise to allowing folding?
 

saneagle

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I'm enjoying following this thread - thankyou to all contributions especially @saneagle :)

I am curious as to what the 20" wheeled NON FOLDER brings to the game? I always thought 20" wheels (or 16" ones) were a riding compromise to allowing folding?
The Argos Challenge Urban bike is a half-folding bike. The stem and pedals fold, which makes it take up minimum space. It would be good if you have limited space in the garage or you want to leave it in a hall-way or something like that. I have a van, so the folding in half is not necessary, but being able to drop the handlebars flat against the bike is very useful. That's what I do with my folder when I take it in the van.
 

Waspy

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I'm enjoying following this thread - thankyou to all contributions especially @saneagle :)

I am curious as to what the 20" wheeled NON FOLDER brings to the game? I always thought 20" wheels (or 16" ones) were a riding compromise to allowing folding?
I believe the style is called Mini Velo. Probably popular with London trendies.
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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It was just a dahon rack for 20" folders

Good to know, thanks.

I was looking at the picture of your bike with the rack fitted. I see you used the two bolts on the inside of the seatstays. How did you get the one fitted that is next to the disc rotor? It looks like there's just not enough room, it is so close to the rotor.

Apologies for the hijack.
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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The only thing I have reservations about is the rear derailleur. I need to change to a 9-speed cassette to get the right gearing. I can't find a photo of how the derailleur attaches. If it has a hanger, it should be OK, but cheap 6-speed derailleurs often don't use a hanger. I'll get the answer on Wednesday.
Looks like a hanger, time will tell.

 

Peter.Bridge

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Good to know, thanks.

I was looking at the picture of your bike with the rack fitted. I see you used the two bolts on the inside of the seatstays. How did you get the one fitted that is next to the disc rotor? It looks like there's just not enough room, it is so close to the rotor.

Apologies for the hijack.
I can't remember. I might have fitted the rack with the rear wheel removed.

Img_2025_09_08_21_43_00.jpeg
 
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saneagle

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Looks like a hanger, time will tell.

Good work, thanks. I looked everywhere for a photo, but I couldn't find one that showed that detail.

The next thing to sort out is whether a Hailong type battery will fit. I was going to fit the rack battery if I had got an Intercity, but this one needs a middle battery of some sort.
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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The next thing to sort out is whether a Hailong type battery will fit. I was going to fit the rack battery if I had got an Intercity, but this one needs a middle battery of some sort.
If you recall, I briefly had my Intercity in semi-folding mode with a Hailong battery.

If your Hailong battery doesn't fit on the downtube of your Argos Challenge Urban , it would certainly fit on the crossbar.

It looked a bit odd but it rode OK, I didn't notice any top-heaviness.



 
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