Life In 3D ... With A Technical Query

[Beach]

I like to create 3D photo-realistic art. This is Eva although she is far from finished!

Life In 3D ... With A Technical Query

I did promise to upload a thread relating to my first real adventure with Eva, the preloved but newly acquired Powabyke Euro I purchased last week but, before I entertain you with such flowery prose and mischief, I need to call upon the Pedelec hive mind to ask for some technical guidance.

Truth is, the two posts, when viewed side by side, will relate to each other because the original purpose of the first foray out into the wild hills of my glorious Jurassic Coast, was to tax my machine to within a hair breadths of her life ... and, yes, though we ended up facing mortal danger together, we did both eventually return back home with honour, dignity, limbs and components intact.

There were issues though ...

Well. One main issue but then, that was the purpose of me caning and disciplining her so fiercely. I mean ... I had to ... I needed to ... establish what my little pony could handle, cope with and ... endure.

So ... for now, I want to address something you folk will already know as pedal assist.

Pedal Assist

A Powabyke Euro has two ignition settings.

a) The first click of the keyed ignition provides power via the throttle once a speed of over 3.3 kph is achieved via routine pedaling. (The feature kicks in even when pedaling backwards).

b) The second click of the keyed ignition provides power when pedaling is constant but the power ceases the moment pedaling stops.

I'm presuming option a) allows for unfettered, constant power no matter what the rider is doing and that option b) intelligently saves the motor, (and batteries), from being taxed when a rider is choosing to cease pedaling. (Freewheeling).

I say presumably because I have yet to experience Eva intelligently gauging my own input or lack of input. I therefore assume, as valiant as she has been, that there is an issue with either the pedal assist sensor or the ignition associated with option b) i.e Pedal assist.

A Technical Aside

I've familiarised myself with the sensor arrangements but include my own diagrams and 3D images to show the sensor set up just in case some members are unfamiliar with the mechanism.

I enjoy playing with photo-realistic software and animations, such pursuits being a hobby of mine though note, while the whole thing is just about to scale, my Powabyke 3D model should be viewed more as art rather than being 100% technically accurate!

Here is the sensor, (below), highlighted in red.

Here is the sensor disk, (below), also highlighted in red .The round components are magnets.

Here is a cool image of the chainset / sensor assembly, (below), showing the magnets on the disk.

... And here is a sexy, full frontal image of the sensor, (below), highlighted in yellow and juxtaposed with the sensor disk

My Thoughts / Queries

The first click of the ignition works fine. I mean, sure, I can start to pedal, (above 3.3 kph), and, on throttling up, the motor kicks in.

The second click of the ignition ... makes absolutely no difference. (It delivers exactly the same function that the first click offers.

There is no intelligent feedback between Eva and I ... meaning she just doesn't know whether I am pedaling or not!

Bad Eva!!!!

Deduction

Now ... One of my 'Heroes of History' is the philosopher Socrates (He died 399 BC) ... and Socrates, while never ever having written anything down, is attributed by Plato to have said that "The answer to a question is often found in the very question being asked".

If I apply that maxim, I can deduce that the actual sensor, (highlighted in yellow above in pic 4), must be working, sensing the revolving magnets in the sensor disk ... or, otherwise, Eva wouldn't know to start delivering power once she sensed that she was travelling at more than 3.3 kph.

The actual sensor must be working just fine ... mustn't it?

Therefore ... I'm assuming ... I'm guessing ... that the problem must lie with the ignition switch, not the sensor assembly!

Yeah. I know. I could have just asked a straight question like, "Why doesn't my pedal assist Powabyke Euro actually pedal assist?" ...

But where is the fun in that?

Seriously. I need the issue resolved.

I pushed Eva for 10+ miles outwards and upwards the other day, including tackling a couple of really long 11% hills and, (according to Google Earth's statistics), a section even steeper still AND, instead of turning back from my planned destination to complete a taxing 20+ mile round trip, I chose to drop down 587 ft to sea level, return via a crumbled, potholed tank track running parallel 20 yards to the sea, (for a couple of miles), before climbing back up to the high coast road ... though eventually feeling Eva start to hurt and wilt ... as dusk beckoned ... still 5 miles from home.

I captured a wonderful sunset ... but was nearly stranded far from home.

Had I had the benefit of true pedal assist, I feel I would have made the journey home without having to nurse the pair of us the last couple of miles.

She still supported me, though.

I was able to pedal and freewheel back down long stretches of the coast road, giving her batteries a rest, and she carried her own weight via her throttle during the one time I had to dismount up a final steep hill, (just a couple of miles from town), before she rallied and took over again ... finally bringing me home with her last few brave, courageous volts.

Is the sensor suspect or failing?

Is the ignition likely to be the problem?

Your thoughts, comments or wisdom will be appreciated by both Eva and I.

 

[shemozzle999]

First you need to find Eva's birth certificate and then establish whether she has had minor surgery.

Read these for clues:

http://www.powabyke.com/asx/documents/p_euro_tech_manual.pdf

http://www.powabyke.com/asx/documents/user_24_speed_2.pdf

http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/info/setupandmaintenance/powabykemaintenance/

3D is good but reality is better - close up photos showing showing the effected parts and wiring please.

 

[Beach]

Good morning, Shemozzle,

Thank you for your comments and advice.

You are just in time for a game of Spot The Difference!

I'd found what I thought might be a possible cause for my pedal assist issue... but eventually thought myself back out of the idea.

I had noted that the bracket the sensor protruded through, (pic right), was bent by 19% compared to perpendicular ... but assumed it was supposed to be perpendicular and a neat 90 degrees when originally fabricated.

"Is that how it is supposed to be?", I pondered.

When I created the 3D model, I assumed that the bracket was perpendicular and depicted it so in my original diagram. (In yellow in the left hand image above) ... but I was not sure.

Anyway, as I had stated earlier, the 3D models and images, while useful, needed to be viewed as art ... even though I'd tried to create them to within a couple of mm of accuracy where I could.

Responding To Your Comments

In a moment, I'll bring Eva into the kitchen, inspect her, take some photos and get the serial number from her base.

I'll also try to age her ... though would welcome any additional hints and tips regarding manufacturing date if members have such information to share.

I am only going from memory but I believe I read somewhere that there was a change of sensor location at some point. Don't quote me but I'm vaguely remembering that older Powabykes have the sensor entering right underneath and into the crank via a rubberized sleeve as seen on page 5 in the first PDF Euro technical manual you kindly directed me to. (I'll explore the other links in a little while).

Eva's sensor, (as originally shown on this page), does not follow that protocol, instead it pokes out the side of the crank to acknowledge the spinning magnets on the sensor disk as they pass by.

And forgive me. I incorrectly showed the original technical line diagram of the sensor / sensor disk misaligned! I've corrected that now, (below), just in case a member assumed, from the original pic above, that the sensor / magnets were as far away from each other as my first, wrong image suggested!

Amended, accurate depiction of sensor. (Below).

Procession

Incidentally, I note that the sensor disk revolves with a procession that wobbles just a tad coming to within 1mm of the magnets at its closest orbit and only about 4mm away at its farthest orbit. This means the magnets, under their current arrangement with the 19% angled sensor bracket does appear to be correct because, if the bracket was to be realigned perpendicular at 90%, the sensor would strike the rotating magnets themselves when the mechanism was in motion.

Eva's Birthday?

In July 2005, Powabyke apparently began manufacturing the Euro with an aluminium frame.

Technically, in everyday situations, aluminium, like copper, isn't regarded as being magnetic though, in physics, every element of matter becomes magnetic when placed in a strong enough magnetic field!

Eva's frame is not magnetic in the regular, traditional sense so I'm assuming she was born after July 2005.

Right. To the kitchen for an inspection.

Back later.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The sensor will work best if its face is parallel to the plane of the magnet disc and 1mm from it, although they still work when bent back a bit so that they don't rub.

Yours must be working for the throttle to work.

If you want variable power, you can make a cruise control, which will work even better on your bike than others because it'll only give power when you pedal. You need a two or three position switch and a thumb throttle. Remove the spring from the throttle and clamp it next to the brake (or anything) so that it it gets a bit of friction to stay where you set it. The switch will switch between normal throttle and cruise throttle. On your bike, you won't really need the normal throttle any more because it doesn't work independenly from pedalling but you can keep it anyway.Be aware that the controller will look for a zero throttle before it'll allow any power, and IIRC the Powabyke throttle works in reverse from a normal one, so with the thumb throttle, high is low, which makes no difference when used as a cruise control. I used to use a 10K pot instead of a thumb throttle, which worked quite well. If I did it again, I'd put a 1K resistor on the signal line between the out and the switch to get better sensitivity. Here's the schematic with the pot. The wiring's the same with a thumb-throttle:



Here it is on my bike like that with the switch above the LH brake and the pot speed adjuster near the stem.



Here with a thumb throttle on the left and a normal one on the right:

 

[Beach]

I do like your suggestion(s), d8veh. Thank you for furnishing me, (us), with your thoughts and diagrams. I'll read and absorb the information again in a minute ... just as soon as I've posted these words!

You've possibly hit the nail on the head re the sensor disc alignment. At the very least, you are echoing the same thoughts I had written earlier! (Below).

----
Right ... (Written before d8veh replied).

Sensor Arrangement

We already know the orientation and arrangement for the sensor assembly on my particular machine. The sensor cable presents horizontally and connects to a similarly horizontal, external, sensor that senses spinning magnets on sensor disc.

Note. This arrangement is different than the photo in the Powabyke technical manual which depicts a cable entering the centre of what I describe as the crank housing situated right underneath Eva's belly.

Uninspiring smartphone pic, (below), shows Eva's belly with horizontal, external arrangement of sensor assembly without cable entering up in to the crank case. That fact should aid us in establishing Eva's age.

The following pic shows the general arrangement.

These next two images show the, perhaps, suspect mechanical alignment of the sensors disc. In one revolution, the magnets get as close as 1mm to the sensor head for half a revolution but produce a gap as large as 3mm in the other half of the revolution.

Oh ... and just to confirm ... all of the sensor disc magnets are present. None missing.

I wonder ...

I'm starting to get a warm, fuzzy feeling in my tummy!

I'm guessing that, perhaps the low speed turning of the pedals produces enough of a signal for the sensor disc, via the magnets, to intermittently sweep past the sensor head, (for at least half a revolution), and, at such a low speed, that action happily prompts Eva with a spike of voltage to encourage her to start her motor when pedaling above 3.3kph ...or when pedaling backwards.

BUT

Once the machine starts to roll more than an initial 3.3 kph, perhaps the magnets spin too fast to maintain a 100% constant contact with the sensor ... and poor Eva loses all contact with reality!

A bit like her owner does sometimes!

The pedal assist feature may be failing simply because the sensor disc is wobbling and not aligning correctly enough to sense the magnets. Certainly not at speed.

How could it? Their magnetic influence is more than 3mm from the sensor head for 50% of the time they are orbiting the sensor head.

It is raining cats and dogs here so, while I might ponder straightening the sensor disk, I won't be testing the mental though experiment just yet.

Anyway, I may be wrong about the whole premise of my tentative conclusion.

Time for a cuppa.

UPDATE.

Yippee! While I had been preparing and writing the above text, d8veh had already thought a similar thing as me regarding the 1mm contact and sensor / sensor disc integrity.

And thank you, shemozzle. I found your suggestions and links very useful. You also, d8veh. The variable throttle suggestion will be followed up. Thanks.

I haven't rectified the power assist issue yet but feel hopeful that a straightened sensor disc may resolve the problem.

I'll update this thread accordingly, if or when I can confirm the issue has been rectified.

 

[Beach]

As for the serial number.

On my machine, it is situated on the front of the frame just below the handlebar stem. It reads P26SXXXXX followed by 5 numbers. (Last 5 numbers replaced with crosses here).

Will the P or the 26 or the S or the five additional numbers help me pin down a date of manufacture?

 

[Beach]

First you need to find Eva's birth certificate and then establish whether she has had minor surgery.

Re your minor surgery comment.

What an intuitive thing to suggest, Shemozzle.

With further inspection, and no online feedback regarding the matter of the correct manufactured angle of the sensor bracket, (Perpendicular, at 90 degrees to the frame or angled at 19 degrees), I've reached a conclusion myself.

I feel that the bracket may well have started life at 90 degrees ... and think it has taken a knock. It must have been a fairly hefty one to bend such a short, stubby component.

Why do I think this?

Well. Having tinkered with the slightly out of true sensor disc, I've discovered that it has no more strength or integrity than a tin jam jar lid and, further, I have discovered that the disc, while firmly and mechanically secure on the chainset, can actually be shifted along the axis away from the, (bent), sensor and bracket ... by between 5mm - 6mm.

Not much of a gap, we might ponder, but with the disc aligned back to this possibly original position, the bracket and, more importantly, the sensor could reclaim its possible true alignment without the threat of the spinning magnets hitting it.

Lastly, on detailed close inspection, I've discovered that the so called 19 degree angle of the bracket is actually a less severe angle of, perhaps, only 7 or 8 degrees, (mostly), but with just the tip of the bracket twisting the extra degrees and visibly showing as a more severe angle.

Put succinctly, (a discipline I'm not very good at adhering to), if I shift the sensor disk by 5mm outwards towards its left hand pedal, the sensor bracket might be straightened and then I could address the out of true aspect of the jam jar lid of a sensor disc.

I presume the bracket may be aluminium and prone to crack or break off if bent back without some care and consideration so I'll be chatting to a steel fabricator friend to address that issue.

Mistake

Until this post, I had been describing angles using the percentage sign, (%) rather than describing them in degrees!

Sorry about that.

 

[shemozzle999]

The sensor centre should ideally align with the centre of the magnet when the magnet carrier is in close proximity to the sensor, if it does not align then it suggests it might have been bent. this could be your problem of lack of PAS operation as you have worked out.

You are right to pursue this first and I hope this corrects the problem.

The minor surgery I mentioned referred to references at the bottom of the manuals. It appears that the controller could have been updated but if the ignition switch was not changed to the 2 wire version as well then it would make the PAS inoperable.

From 2008 the system has a self check feature activated by holding the throttle full open before switching on. It might be worth trying to see if this applies to your bicycle - they suggest that the bicycle wheel is supported so that the front wheel is off the ground while the diagnostics tests are carried out.

I hope this can be of help.

 

[Beach]

Good evening, Shemozzle,

Yes. I'd read about the incompatibility issue with the ignition and upgraded controller but would never have thought to associate that snippet of information with this current issue so thank you for the information.

I'll need to straighten the sensor disc, (check that the sensor disk wobble isn't caused by the crank wobbling itself), and then, after testing, I will know if I have solved the problem.

If I haven't, I'd need to investigate the ignition to see if I do have the right wiring arrangement for the right ignition type.

Close inspection of the Powabyke label covering the electronics panel reveals that the corners of the label have been lifted ... presumably to gain access to the screws to remove said panel.

I'll not get involved with the controller / ignition switch options yet though ...

Self test

With the ebike's stand perched on a huge volume of Encyclopedia Britannica, the front wheel was in the air when I did the self test.

I held the throttle fully open, switched on and the red LEDs rippled up and down on the control panel three times and then the the bottom two, (lower left), lights stayed on ... as did the top three lights, leaving LED three off and unlit.

From left. (Capitals =ON. Lower case =OFF).

A. B. c. D. E. F.

This is with the throttle still full on - but after the test, when I release the throttle, LED c turns on so I get

A.B.C.D.E.F

Ah. The Powabyke document I am looking at regarding self testing procedure, explanations and diagrams is for the 24 speed Commuter, a subtly different version of my own machine.

Does that matter? Are the testing procedures the same?

Matt Farlane's instructions / explanations regarding the LED options is very ambiguous.

I'm a clever chap and assume a full set of LEDs on, (after removing my hand from the throttle), after the self test is a good sign ... though LED C goes out when I twist the throttle open again!

What do the test results mean?

Please enlighten me, Shemozzle.

 

[Beach]

As of today, being of aluminium construction introduced in July 2005, Eva could not have been any older than 8 years, 6 months and 27 days!

Furnished with the information from Shemozzle regarding her self test components, the fact that Eva can self test herself at all does mean her maximum age can now be reduced downwards to between 5 and 6 years. (The self test feature not coming in till 2008).

Do we have the actual date or month the self test, (new circuits?), were introduced?

Do we also have the date when Powabyke ceased manufacturing the Euro?

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Beach,

Not having owned a Powerbyke I am afraid that my knowledge on the bicycle only extends to the information I have gleaned using the Google search function.

Perhaps a call to Powerbyke customer services stating the serial number of the bicycle they might be able to enlighten you regarding the age of Eva and they may be able to decipher the self test flowchart for you.

I believe the Euro ceased production in 2011.

I have found a couple more links which might be of future assistance:

http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/info/setupandmaintenance/powabykemaintenance/

http://www.powabyke.com/shop/-/6-speed-eurobyke/

 

[Beach]

Hi Shemozzle,

Yep. I was able to use your link, (with diagram), to confirm that my machine has got both the updated controller and the required two wire ignition setup rather than the older three wire arrangement.

OK. 2011. That means my own machine might only be a couple of years old!

I don't think I'll investigate Eva's age any further. I've established she is the newer, more recent edition of the Euro and that is good to know.

As for the sensor test results ...

The machine appears to be fine.

Full lights indicate all is well ... I'm sure.

And ... the reason the third LED, 'C', dims is because it represents the throttle. It dims or blinks when the throttle is activated just to show a user that the self test has acknowledged the command from the throttle. (That is my guess anyway).

The first LED, 'A' represents the pedals in the self test and also stays lit ... until the pedals are revolved ... and then, as an acknowledgment of that action, the self test dims / blinks that LED representation.

I'm guessing that if there is a fault with any aspect of the machine, (Battery, motor, throttle, etc), then a user wouldn't get the all clear with all LEDs blazing and there might not be a reaction, (a dimming or blinking) with a faulty component.

That must be why the manual relates a problem and recommends a solution, (i.e change the switch, change the battery, change the throttle), if a light stays on.

 

[Beach]

Depressing ...

I've now attended to the sensor disc that I had previously described as being "bent or twisted. I'd pondered straightening the disc and had described it as having "no more strength or integrity than a tin jam jar lid".

But I was wrong.

There is nothing wrong with it ... and it isn't a flimsy tin jam jar lid.

The sensor disc isn't a tin or aluminium component at all ... not as far as I can make out. Rather, it appears to be a robust, rigid flat disc moulded from a composite plastic or polyprop material. Quite brittle, I'm sure, but entirely free from any warping or twisting ... though I note a hair line crack in mine.

I'm grumpy now ... and am feeling a sense of frustration at how sparsely frequented this site is ... by posters not lurkers. There are obviously lots of folk reading the threads ... but why is the place so ... ?

Well. It doesn't matter ...

Is this bracket's position the correct one - or has it been knocked out of square? That is just a rhetorical question though ... because I'm now sick of looking at it.

I mean ... I've now taken the pedal off, examined the disc, cleaned it and put it back on ... It is fine.

Save for the tiny crack, it is performing its job.

But the sensor?

The end of it isn't lying flush with the disc.

That MUST be wrong. It needs to be bent down square ... surely?

I tapped the bracket lightly with a hammer earlier on, deciding to knock it back to perpendicular ... but then I stopped ... realising that I was being rash and foolish.

I did manage to line the disc up beautifully with the sensor though. Average 2mm gap for a whole revolution. I'll test it in a minute. Either it will work or it won't.

---

I've carried out tests. I didn't need to actually ride the machine. It was easy to balance Eva, pivoting her stand on the encyclopedia and setting her front wheel in motorised motion, both wheels hovering above the floor.

But no. Ignition fails to deliver P.A in any position. Pedaling does not encourage Eva to shut down her motor.

No matter. I won't miss what I've never experienced.

---

Screw the sensor.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It looks to me like it was welded at an angle like that. I'm sure it'll still work OK like that. I've seen loads of the normal type bent back for clearance, and they still work.

There's probably only a handful of people who have read your posts that actually know what a Powabyke Euro is,let alone looked at the pedal sensor and know what it is.

Give the guys at Powabyke a ring. They're very helpful and knowledgeable. They'll probably get straight to the cause of your problem.

 

[hoppy]

I like to create 3D photo-realistic art. This is Eva although she is far from finished!

Life In 3D ... With A Technical Query

I did promise to upload a thread relating to my first real adventure with Eva, the preloved but newly acquired Powabyke Euro I purchased last week but, before I entertain you with such flowery prose and mischief, I need to call upon the Pedelec hive mind to ask for some technical guidance.

Truth is, the two posts, when viewed side by side, will relate to each other because the original purpose of the first foray out into the wild hills of my glorious Jurassic Coast, was to tax my machine to within a hair breadths of her life ... and, yes, though we ended up facing mortal danger together, we did both eventually return back home with honour, dignity, limbs and components intact.

There were issues though ...

Well. One main issue but then, that was the purpose of me caning and disciplining her so fiercely. I mean ... I had to ... I needed to ... establish what my little pony could handle, cope with and ... endure.

So ... for now, I want to address something you folk will already know as pedal assist.

Pedal Assist

A Powabyke Euro has two ignition settings.

a) The first click of the keyed ignition provides power via the throttle once a speed of over 3.3 kph is achieved via routine pedaling. (The feature kicks in even when pedaling backwards).

b) The second click of the keyed ignition provides power when pedaling is constant but the power ceases the moment pedaling stops.

I'm presuming option a) allows for unfettered, constant power no matter what the rider is doing and that option b) intelligently saves the motor, (and batteries), from being taxed when a rider is choosing to cease pedaling. (Freewheeling).

I say presumably because I have yet to experience Eva intelligently gauging my own input or lack of input. I therefore assume, as valiant as she has been, that there is an issue with either the pedal assist sensor or the ignition associated with option b) i.e Pedal assist.

A Technical Aside

I've familiarised myself with the sensor arrangements but include my own diagrams and 3D images to show the sensor set up just in case some members are unfamiliar with the mechanism.

I enjoy playing with photo-realistic software and animations, such pursuits being a hobby of mine though note, while the whole thing is just about to scale, my Powabyke 3D model should be viewed more as art rather than being 100% technically accurate!

Here is the sensor, (below), highlighted in red.

Here is the sensor disk, (below), also highlighted in red .The round components are magnets.

Here is a cool image of the chainset / sensor assembly, (below), showing the magnets on the disk.

... And here is a sexy, full frontal image of the sensor, (below), highlighted in yellow and juxtaposed with the sensor disk

My Thoughts / Queries

The first click of the ignition works fine. I mean, sure, I can start to pedal, (above 3.3 kph), and, on throttling up, the motor kicks in.

The second click of the ignition ... makes absolutely no difference. (It delivers exactly the same function that the first click offers.

There is no intelligent feedback between Eva and I ... meaning she just doesn't know whether I am pedaling or not!

Bad Eva!!!!

Deduction

Now ... One of my 'Heroes of History' is the philosopher Socrates (He died 399 BC) ... and Socrates, while never ever having written anything down, is attributed by Plato to have said that "The answer to a question is often found in the very question being asked".

If I apply that maxim, I can deduce that the actual sensor, (highlighted in yellow above in pic 4), must be working, sensing the revolving magnets in the sensor disk ... or, otherwise, Eva wouldn't know to start delivering power once she sensed that she was travelling at more than 3.3 kph.

The actual sensor must be working just fine ... mustn't it?

Therefore ... I'm assuming ... I'm guessing ... that the problem must lie with the ignition switch, not the sensor assembly!

Yeah. I know. I could have just asked a straight question like, "Why doesn't my pedal assist Powabyke Euro actually pedal assist?" ...

But where is the fun in that?

Seriously. I need the issue resolved.

I pushed Eva for 10+ miles outwards and upwards the other day, including tackling a couple of really long 11% hills and, (according to Google Earth's statistics), a section even steeper still AND, instead of turning back from my planned destination to complete a taxing 20+ mile round trip, I chose to drop down 587 ft to sea level, return via a crumbled, potholed tank track running parallel 20 yards to the sea, (for a couple of miles), before climbing back up to the high coast road ... though eventually feeling Eva start to hurt and wilt ... as dusk beckoned ... still 5 miles from home.

I captured a wonderful sunset ... but was nearly stranded far from home.

Had I had the benefit of true pedal assist, I feel I would have made the journey home without having to nurse the pair of us the last couple of miles.

She still supported me, though.

I was able to pedal and freewheel back down long stretches of the coast road, giving her batteries a rest, and she carried her own weight via her throttle during the one time I had to dismount up a final steep hill, (just a couple of miles from town), before she rallied and took over again ... finally bringing me home with her last few brave, courageous volts.

Is the sensor suspect or failing?

Is the ignition likely to be the problem?

Your thoughts, comments or wisdom will be appreciated by both Eva and I.

Dear Beach,
Thanks for your interesting posts.
I have a Powabyke Shopper with a switch labelled A and P.
On P if you pedalonce it switches on the throttle which keepsworking whenyou stop pedalling until the bike stops.
On A pedalilng continuously is needed to keep the throttle working.
Neither setting gives any power without use of the throttle.
Hopethis may be relevant!
Best wishes, hoppy

 

[Beach]

Thanks for your comments, d8veh, especially with regards to the bracket. Yes. You are probably right.

I'm about to take the machine out to play about with and adjust the disc. If I can't get it to deliver power assist then, yes, I'll take your advice and give Powabyke a call.

 

[Beach]

OK, Hoppy.

I've only owned or even ever experienced an ebike for less than 2 weeks so maybe my perceptions or expectations need fine tuning!

OK. I see. You mean ... when Eva realises I am pedaling ... constantly .., she might decide to put her feet up and let me carry on doing the work?

That would be OK. That would automatically save power and give her a rest while I wanted to pedal.

Your revealing comment might just save the situation, Hoppy!

So ... it isn't a case of freewheeling to encourage the throttle to halt the motor.

Rather ... it is the act of constantly pedaling that brings in the pedal assist?

I'm glad I caught your comment before I sped out the door!!!

Thanks Hoppy.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm not too sure you got what he said,but just in case: The PAS doesn't give any power on any setting. Instead, it enables the throttle in two ways. One way, the throttle only works if you're pedalling. The other way, you have to pedal to initiate the throttle, which will then continue to work without pedalling. Now that he's said it, I remember somebody else saying something like that before.

So, you can still get variable PAS in the first mode if you make a cruise control like I showed before.

 

[hoppy]

I'm not too sure you got what he said,but just in case: The PAS doesn't give any power on any setting. Instead, it enables the throttle in two ways. One way, the throttle only works if you're pedalling. The other way, you have to pedal to initiate the throttle, which will then continue to work without pedalling. Now that he's said it, I remember somebody else saying something like that before.

So, you can still get variable PAS in the first mode if you make a cruise control like I showed before.

Exactly d8veh,the two settings are just different ways of switching on the throttle.OnP you just pedalonce,on A you must keep pedalling.But you always have to use the throttle.

 

[shemozzle999]

Depressing ...

I've now attended to the sensor disc that I had previously described as being "bent or twisted. I'd pondered straightening the disc and had described it as having "no more strength or integrity than a tin jam jar lid".

But I was wrong.

There is nothing wrong with it ... and it isn't a flimsy tin jam jar lid.

The sensor disc isn't a tin or aluminium component at all ... not as far as I can make out. Rather, it appears to be a robust, rigid flat disc moulded from a composite plastic or polyprop material. Quite brittle, I'm sure, but entirely free from any warping or twisting ... though I note a hair line crack in mine.

I'm grumpy now ... and am feeling a sense of frustration at how sparsely frequented this site is ... by posters not lurkers. There are obviously lots of folk reading the threads ... but why is the place so ... ?

Well. It doesn't matter ...

Is this bracket's position the correct one - or has it been knocked out of square? That is just a rhetorical question though ... because I'm now sick of looking at it.

I mean ... I've now taken the pedal off, examined the disc, cleaned it and put it back on ... It is fine.

Save for the tiny crack, it is performing its job.

But the sensor?

The end of it isn't lying flush with the disc.

That MUST be wrong. It needs to be bent down square ... surely?

I tapped the bracket lightly with a hammer earlier on, deciding to knock it back to perpendicular ... but then I stopped ... realising that I was being rash and foolish.

I did manage to line the disc up beautifully with the sensor though. Average 2mm gap for a whole revolution. I'll test it in a minute. Either it will work or it won't.

---

I've carried out tests. I didn't need to actually ride the machine. It was easy to balance Eva, pivoting her stand on the encyclopedia and setting her front wheel in motorised motion, both wheels hovering above the floor.

But no. Ignition fails to deliver P.A in any position. Pedaling does not encourage Eva to shut down her motor.

No matter. I won't miss what I've never experienced.

---

Screw the sensor.

From what I can see the thin square section of the magnet carrier is all that is holding the disc in position on the bottom bracket shaft and as it is cracked if it moves away from the crank it will be free to wobble again.

Can I suggest you remove it again and purchase some Blu-tac, or something similar, pack it into the round section of the carrier , roughly model it into a square so when you refit it it will mould itself into shape of the tapered shaft and hold itself firmly against the crank, giving better support.